Bill Jewell

How to Repair Bendix on 1930 Franklin Starter?

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I have a back-up starter (Delco Remy 723-C) for my 1930 Franklin that I need to replace the gear on the bendix.  Could someone please advise how to go about replacing the gear?

 

Thanks!

 

Bill

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Bill If you need the front half of the Bendix I have them . You cant replace just the gear . Mike

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Mike,

 

What is the condition of your bendix and how much do you want for it?  Can you please send a couple of photos?

 

Thanks

 

Bill

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The front bolt on my 29 coupe starter spring sheared off. I have gotten it out and need to replace it.  Where might I get one that has the small tip on it.  I have pictures of it and the related parts.  However, the picturres I have found do not show the two shims that are under the front and rear spring bolts and I am not sure of how they were situated and what their purpose is.  Any ideas?  Is there a technical diagram available?  See attached picture showing the shims in the way I think they were attached.  The one shims was displaced when the bolt sheared and the other fell off when the spring was removed.  I would appreciate any insight on this issue.  Thanks.IMG_4977.jpgIMG_4976.jpgIMG_4978.jpg

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Don,

 

As far as a replacement for your sheared off screw, you can get two replacement screws at Langs Old Car Parts (www.modeltford.com).  Their part number is 5023-4-5.  I know these are for a Ford Model T, but they are exact replacements and work fine.  My 1930 starters (I have two) do not have the two shims that you show in the picture.

 

Regards,

 

Bill Jewell

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Just be aware, there are two different thread sizes of bolts. The Ford ones are the small ones.

I cant remember the actually sizes.

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Thanks for all the information everybody.  I was able to get the parts I needed right here in Santa Barbara.  A starter/generator shop here since the 1940's, I believe, which has been in the family since that time, had two of the right bolts (I got an extra one).  They were in his supply from the time frame of the starter motor's production.  The owner said he thought the shims were made by someone, for what purpose he was unsure.  He suggested that I remove them since the tip of the front bolt would not be completely inserted in its slot if the shim was used.  I am all set.

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Those clips are not homemade. Ive seen them many times . I guess to keep the spring uniform with the shaft?? If they were on there, use them.

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In your parts book those are dwg #84027, ref # R-3892 driving spring support clip.

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Thinking about it, Ive seen a lot more starters WITHOUT the clips than with them! Yes use them. Im sure a lot of homeowners and mechanics threw them out!

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Thanks for all the feedback and information.  After talking to the rebuilder here in Santa Barbara I am going to leave the springs out.  This rebuilder has been in Santa Barbara since 1976 and specializes in Alternator, Generator and Starters,  They are a great resource for anything to do with these products.  He has parts that are impossible to get elsewhere.  He said he would not put the shims in because:

 

1. They affect how deep the front bolt tip will seat in its hold and could cause failure.

2. The spring is in a fixed position due to the fact that it is secured in place by both bolts and does not see that the shims serve any purpose on the shaft.

 

I spoke to Tom Rasmussen about the shims, and he had never seen nor heard of them, and did not understand what purpose they served.  

 

The bottom line for me is that unless someone can tell me what purpose they might serve, I am going to try the starter without them at this point.  I can always put them in at another time.

 

Thanks again

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The shims are for the smaller 5/16 bolt drives that use the larger Bendix springs. The franklin uses the same Bendix spring that the Ford uses from 1929 to 1954. Do not use the model t spring is not strong enough. If you look in your Franklin parts book you will find the shims called out. If you desire to see more scroll back in this forum and you will see that I explain all about the starter drive. Its about a year back.

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"Starter Drive Spring Clips" are for sale on ebay or Model A parts suppliers have them . That is not the tab lock washer . That washer is separate and necessary . 

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I can't seem to find your information for June 2015 under your name for posts you have done!  Can you tell me what the purpose of the shims are and what will happen if I do not use them?  Since the spring is fixed in place how do the shims provide any purpose?  Is it because the shaft might wobble and the shims prevent this from happening?  I am totally perplexed as to why they are necessary for the 5/16 shaft size and not on the larger shaft for other Franklin motors - if I am understanding the situation correctly. Is there a concern about the rear bolt tip not seating all the way If I use them?  Thanks.

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I believe the shims are there to move the pinion gear forward, or back with no shims, they actually move the main shaft forward which in turn moves the pinion gear to mesh better with the flywheel gear.

 

The main interface of the starter motor shaft and the pinion gear is the Bendix spring. The back bolt MUST seat well into the shaft (there should be a key between the shaft and bush) with its tip and should be very tight on the spring.  And the front bolt should not make contact with the shaft but should obviously be tight on the spring also.

 

 

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As I wrote above it is a "support clip".  Look at the parts book, pages 1004 and 5.  That goes on first, on top of it is ref #R-3890 "driving spring lock" then the screw. The lock washer has two tabs one up and one down to lock the screw. I think  the clip is to give the lock washer and screw a flat base. If you don't use them or at least the lock washer the spring may bottom out and never hold the spring tightly.  I would never want a bolt or screw to bottom out when tightened down.

 

They don't build stuff with unneeded parts.

 

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The clip/shim is designed to help center the spring. Although it's good to have them, the Bendix unit will work with out them. The spring is the same as used on Fords from 1929 to 1953 and works on a 5/8 shaft unlike our Franklin that has a 1/2" shaft. The whole barrel of the Franklin Bendix is slightly smaller than the Ford unit, thus the reason Bendix Corp supplied the shims. Our Franklin parts book calls them out but you won't find any drawings for them because they are Bendix parts and not Franklin. When Bendix Corp designed and made the springs they made them to a standard I.D. size to there Bendix Drive benefit, then made shims to those few that were smaller like the Franklin, Model T, ETC. Hope this helps. 

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Thanks Hook.  This is the most logical explanation so far.  However, it still seems that the spring would be centered without them since it is at the same position on the shaft where the bolts secure the spring, and it cannot move in any direction vertically.  Good to know that they are likely not necessary as was told to me by the local Bendix repair owner who has been in business doing these starters since 1958.  Merry Xmas to you and your family and all the others that have contributed to this discussion.

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Don,

Here is what I posted a little over a year ago for what its worth.

Good luck

Bill

 

A Model T Bendix spring is not strong enough to constantly put up with the torque exerted from starting a Franklin six cylinder and it is not the proper replacement. The proper replacement Bendix spring (as specified in our parts book and listed in Chilton's cross reference book) is the same spring used on the Model A Ford. (Bendix L-11-6X) If you put them side by side you will see the leaf is 3/8 wide on the A spring and only 5/16 wide on the T. Lang's doesn't have them because they only deal in T's but Snyder's Model A & T parts do. Snyder's spring(Franklin part #R3882) is #A-11375 @ $6.50 and the spring clips (Franklin part #R3892) are #A11384 @ $5,25 a pair. These are not the screws or lock washers, the Model T screws and lock washers are OK and Snyder's has those too. The Model A screws and lock washers are not the correct size because, with the exception of a few A's produced in 1928, are all designed for a 5/8" shaft. By the way the reason the A spring is cheaper than the T is because it's the same spring used from 1928 to 1953 Ford.

The main section of the starter Bendix is of course the part with the gear section. It is identical to the Model T except for the end nut. The end nut on a T is twice the length of the one on the Franklin and extends beyond the unit. By the way the end nut is not really a nut, but a collar. If you carefully grind this nut (collar actually) back to where it's even with the main part of the Bendix unit you will end up with an identical replacement Bendix for a Franklin. Be sure to use plenty of water when grinding to prevent too much heat build up. Lang's and Snyder's both carry these at approx. $75.00. They come with a Model T spring----Don't Use It!. Now the end part that rides in the Franklin bell housing bushing is the only thing that's Franklin only and if you need a new one will have to be made by a machinist. Don’t waste your time looking for a drawing for that part in the Franklin drawings because it was made by Bendix and not Franklin.

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