Vehicles with Left handed Lug Nuts.

[Dandy Dave]

Had to kick myself yesterday. Been working on the old Dodge Sweptside pickup and I put the brakes back together. Doing the rear set I looked at the letter on the end of the stud and there's an L for left of course. Well, without much thought I put it on the left hand side of the truck. Got around to the front and the left side of the truck has right hand threads. Had to think for a moment. (....I'm thinking.........) Daaahooo...The left had threaded studs actually belong on the right hand side of the vehicle as theory is that the lugs should tighten the direction the wheel spins while the vehicle is moving forward. Not a big deal but I did have to get the wheel puller back out to swap the rears side to side. Guess it happens to the best of us from time to time. LOL.. Dandy Dave! 

[mike6024]

The rears were correct. You should have swapped the front side-to-side.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

The rears were correct. You should have swapped the front side-to-side.

True statement.  Guess you'll have to kick yourself even harder today, lol. I owned a 67 GTX like this. Also, just this morning, I was checking some things on a 31 Cadillac, and had the front drums off. While all four wheels use R/H lug bolts on that car, the spindle nut on the left front that retains the wheel bearing is oddly, L/H thread even though it has the usual cotter pin to retain it.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Guest (see edit history)

[Stude Light]

I had to think about this when I reassembled my car and, while the theory of tightening in the direction the wheel spins is plausible, the forces during hard braking are typically much higher, hence the left-handed lug nuts would belong on the left side of the car.

Scott

[keiser31]

Left handed threads go on the left side of the car. Right-handed threads go on the right side of the car.

[mike6024]

Actually, it does't have to do with acceleration forces. Angular acceleration, or rotational acceleration is not what it is about. Constant velocity, cruising at constant speed could cause a nut to unscrew itself, if it was loose and well lubed. A loose lubed nut on the left side would theoretically tighten itself while driving at constant speed only if it was left hand thread. If right handed on the left side it would come off.

 

It has to do with the same effect that causes water to swirl in a certain direction when going down the drain. And we know it swirls in different directions depending on whether you are in the northern hemisphere or the southern hemisphere.

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-somebody-finally-sett/

 

"Do bathtubs drain in different directions in the two hemispheres? If you had a specially prepared bathtub, the answer would be yes. For any normal bathtub you are likely to encounter in the home, however, the answer is no.
"The tendency of a circulation in a fluid to develop in a clockwise direction in the Northern Hemisphere and a counterclockwise direction in the Southern Hemisphere can be traced to the earth's rotation. 

 

"The direction of motion is caused by the Coriolis effect. This can be visualized if you imagine putting a pan of water on a turntable and then spinning the turntable in a counterclockwise direction, the direction in which the earth rotates as seen from above the north pole. The water on the bottom of the pan will be dragged counterclockwise direction slightly faster than the water at the surface, giving the water an apparent clockwise spin in the pan. But if you were to look at the water in the pan from below, corresponding to seeing it from the south pole, it would appear to be spinning in a counterclockwise direction. Likewise, the rotation of the earth gives rise to an effect that tends to accelerate draining water in a clockwise direction in the Northern hemisphere and counterclockwise in the Southern."

[Bhigdog]

If the crapper was laid horizontal how would the water spin? If it was rotated 180 degrees would it spin in the opposite direction. If not, why not............Bob

[Guest]

Actually the water swirls in the same direction whether you are in the northern or southern hemisphere.  You are just looking at the pipe from opposite ends.  The spin of the earth doesn't change.

[mike6024]

8 minutes ago, Tinindian said:

Actually the water swirls in the same direction whether you are in the northern or southern hemisphere.  You are just looking at the pipe from opposite ends.  The spin of the earth doesn't change.

Very true

[Marty Roth]

KISS - they tell me Keep It Simple Stupid - and eventually I learn

Left Thread on Left Side - especially true on older MOPAR products - some things we learn the hard way....

 

back in the late 1940s or early '50s, and old timer told me it was due to rotational inertia.

 

This was proven to me late one night while attempting to drive back to NJ from the Catskills in my 1958 Impala convertible sfter playing a weekend gig at a resort hotel. The Bass Fiddle player, with his huge case taking up the middle of the interior, and my trumpet safely tucked away, we headed down Highway 42 from South Fallsburg toward Route 17 (NY Quickway). I heard a rattle - stopped and listened - but could not identify it. Worried about the rattle down low on the left, I got on the Quickway heading back toward Monticello instead of NYC, trying to get to civilization, or at least a lighted area. At 50 mph or so, the left front wheel decided to go its own way in the night, dropping the brake drum to the pavement. The rattle had been the lug nuts in the spinner wheel covers! I took one nut off each of the three remaining wheels and mounted the spare on the now-cracked brake drum and continued a few miles back to the hotel where I had played the prior nights. The next day I found a local junk yard and bought a good drum. My Father drove up from NJ, and together we fond the missing wheel off in the woods and weeds - the spinner was reflecting the brilliant sun - and the lugs were imbedded between the cap and the wheel.  

 

It appeared that the shop which had welded the broken bracket for the power steering piston a few days earlier, neglected to properly torque the Right-hand Lug nuts on the left side of the '58 Impala. Dad said that if the car had left hand threads on that side, it likely would not have come off.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Marty Roth (see edit history)

[padgett]

And Pontiacs into the '60s.

[Marty Roth]

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

If the crapper was laid horizontal how would the water spin? If it was rotated 180 degrees would it spin in the opposite direction. If not, why not............Bob

 

THE WATER WOULD PROBABLY SPILL OUT ALL OVER THE FLOOR - at least that would be my luck !! Then it would splash on the clock - not very wise ??

[1937hd45]

. Was Ford the only one that used a left and right threaded outer front wheel bearing? Bob

Edited August 27, 2016 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[oldford]

8 hours ago, Stude Light said:

I had to think about this when I reassembled my car and, while the theory of tightening in the direction the wheel spins is plausible, the forces during hard braking are typically much higher, hence the left-handed lug nuts would belong on the left side of the car.

Scott

 So, why don't all of the cars with all 4 wheels with right hand thread have half of the wheels falling off along the road.  The basic truth is that the designers had it wrong. the wheels have a cone shaped hole for the lugs that mates with the lug nut and they don't come off. No need for left hand thread on the left side of the car...

 

Frank

[padgett]

Knock offs now...but they usually have arrows.

[JamesBulldogMiller55Buick]

Rolls and Bentley have left handed threads on the left.

I had a '67 Dodge Dart that had left handed threads on the left.

But, the '74 Plymouth and '77 , '87 , 02 '03  Dodges had all right handed threads

Edited August 28, 2016 by JamesBulldogMiller55Buick (see edit history)

[Stude Light]

Come to think of it, I have an old International running gear under my hay wagon. The wheel hubs have no bearings and just ride on a greased tapered shaft. The hubs are retained by large nuts which have to be threaded in the direction of tightening, so left-handed on the left side. Perhaps the lug nuts were threaded that way, not for any engineering theory, but as a carry over from the center nut retaining method (ex. knock-offs). Seems plausible, yes?

Scott

[keiser31]

11 hours ago, Stude Light said:

Come to think of it, I have an old International running gear under my hay wagon. The wheel hubs have no bearings and just ride on a greased tapered shaft. The hubs are retained by large nuts which have to be threaded in the direction of tightening, so left-handed on the left side. Perhaps the lug nuts were threaded that way, not for any engineering theory, but as a carry over from the center nut retaining method (ex. knock-offs). Seems plausible, yes?

Scott

I would tend to believe that.

[Buffalowed Bill]

All Post War Studebakers through 1960 or 61.

[Dandy Dave]

On August 27, 2016 at 4:30 PM, 1937hd45 said:

. Was Ford the only one that used a left and right threaded outer front wheel bearing? Bob

 

No, Had a 55 Chrysler parts car with a 354 Hemi in it at one time. A friend wanted a front hub, bearings, and axle off of it and the one we took off had a left handed thread to hold the bearings. The old 57 Dodge D -100 has right handed on both sides. Dandy Dave! 

Edited August 29, 2016 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

Dahhhoooo. I guess I have had another Homer Simpson moment. OK, At least I don't have the wheels, or any of the body on it yet so it make swapping and adjusting a breeze. LOL..  Dandy Dave!  

[poci1957]

On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 7:15 PM, oldford said:

 So, why don't all of the cars with all 4 wheels with right hand thread have half of the wheels falling off along the road.  The basic truth is that the designers had it wrong.

 

Frank is right, Pontiac had left hand lugs through 1963 or 1964 then switched to all right hand like everyone else.  I could only conclude that the left hand threads must have just been old-school engineering that was probably correct in theory but by the mid-1960s was discarded as being unnecessary complexity in parts and assembly for the benefits it gave, Todd C  

[capngrog]

I hate left-hand lug nuts because they have occasionally proven to be smarter than I am, embarrassing me in front of friends. 

 

The answer to the unasked question is: No, I don't hate people who are smarter than I  am (most of the human race), just lug nuts.

 

Just to be fair, I also hate hidden fasteners on interior trim and panels.

 

End of rant,

Grog

 

 

[emjay]

All we have now is the evidence but on the subject of left handed front bearing nuts, there is an example of an us versus them argument.

 

Back in 1953 the Nuffield Organization and Longbridge merged to form the British Motor Corp, BMC.  Shortly thereafter it was decided to reduce the many design of the various companies that merged.  One result is the BMC Unified hub design.  It's two complete ball bearings and a spacer clamped onto a stub axle by the retaining nut.  However, they could not reach an agreement on the left side nut.  Bear in mind the nut is clamping the races, not the typical tapered bearing design.  The ex-Austin people position was RH thread is fine with a keyed washer and a cotter pin,  The ex-Morris people insisted on LH thread, a plain washer and a cotter pin.  The minutes of that meeting might have been interesting read.

[D Yaros]

7 hours ago, poci1957 said:

 

Frank is right, Pontiac had left hand lugs through 1963 or 1964 then switched to all right hand like everyone else.  I could only conclude that the left hand threads must have just been old-school engineering that was probably correct in theory but by the mid-1960s was discarded as being unnecessary complexity in parts and assembly for the benefits it gave, Todd C  

Cannot speak for all of GM, but do know that my 1962 Oldsmobile has left-hand threads.

[Guest Doug Noel]

Nash, and then AMC, used LH thread lug nuts on the left side from 1941 through 1959 on models with studs and nuts. I've seen used wheels with nuts driven all the way through. Apparently somebody depending on the lefty-loosey righty-tighty rule huh!

But on models that used wheel bolts all were RH thread. Go figure!

[ejboyd5]

Probably more important for knock-off wheels with a single center mounting than it is for lug nuts.

[keiser31]

55 minutes ago, ejboyd5 said:

Probably more important for knock-off wheels with a single center mounting than it is for lug nuts.

Yes! In my younger days I replaced a right hand hub and knockoff with a left hand hub and knockoff on my 1957 MGA roadster. I thought like some of you did and said to myself, "This oughta work." Well, it worked for about 30 miles. I got off the freeway (luckily) to get to my street and all of a sudden, my right front wire wheel came off, passed out the rear of the front fender (I know....OUCH) and sailed across the intersection where I was stopping for a traffic light. The wheel and tire assembly ended up on some guy's front porch. I was embarrassed, to say the least. I will use the excuses that it was my first wire wheel British car and I was young.

I highly doubt that a four lug or five lug car would have the same thing happen.

Edited August 31, 2016 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[R Walling]

 The only reason that left handed nuts were used is because on carriages and wagons that had one nut that held on the wheel. the nut would have a tendency to come off if they seized up the left side bearing.

 

 No other reason!

Edited September 1, 2016 by Roger Walling (see edit history)

[RichardR]

My 1967 Alfa Romeo GT Junior has left-handed threads for the left wheel nuts, and right-handed threads on the right side. I'm used to that, as I've had other (domestic) cars which were manufactured that way. But this Alfa is the first car I've owned with the left-side front spindle threads and nut also left-handed. My repair manuals said nothing about it, and as I've learned from working on cars my whole life, when what you're doing isn't working, try something else! Somehow I had the idea to try to loosen it by turning it to the right, and it worked.

[Dandy Dave]

Well no matter what, Whether  left or right, I guess that if the lugs aint tight. The wheel will take flight. I got er straight on the old 1957 Dodge now. Juiced up the brakes and bled em. Got the fuel tank in place, Got the Cab mounted also. It is a mile stone. After over 40 + years, The old 57 Dodge Sweeptside is coming together. Dandy Dave! 

[Dandy Dave]

On August 29, 2016 at 10:36 AM, capngrog said:

I hate left-hand lug nuts because they have occasionally proven to be smarter than I am, embarrassing me in front of friends. 

 

The answer to the unasked question is: No, I don't hate people who are smarter than I  am (most of the human race), just lug nuts.

 

Just to be fair, I also hate hidden fasteners on interior trim and panels.

 

End of rant,

Grog

 

 

Damn...Where is them Glasses...Still can't see what it says on the end of the lug.. Magnifine glass then.. Oh He77... Get me some light. A big and bright LED mechanics light. Yep that's an L stamped in that Lug. That's better... Dandy Dave! 

[Dandy Dave]

On August 29, 2016 at 2:23 PM, emjay said:

All we have now is the evidence but on the subject of left handed front bearing nuts, there is an example of an us versus them argument.

 

Back in 1953 the Nuffield Organization and Longbridge merged to form the British Motor Corp, BMC.  Shortly thereafter it was decided to reduce the many design of the various companies that merged.  One result is the BMC Unified hub design.  It's two complete ball bearings and a spacer clamped onto a stub axle by the retaining nut.  However, they could not reach an agreement on the left side nut.  Bear in mind the nut is clamping the races, not the typical tapered bearing design.  The ex-Austin people position was RH thread is fine with a keyed washer and a cotter pin,  The ex-Morris people insisted on LH thread, a plain washer and a cotter pin.  The minutes of that meeting might have been interesting read.

 

And for those on this side of the big pond, A Nuffy Nuffield is a farm Tractor. Love them Fordson Major's even better. I have a power Major that still works for a living. Dandy Dave!  

Edited September 1, 2016 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)