Both 6 and 12 volt system

[autoluke]

Engine now runs fine with the standard 6 volt system, but struggles at start.

Would it be possible to have the beast of both worlds by arranging a 12 volt battery for start up, and then switching to a 6 volt operating system ?

 

 

( Washburn...are you out there ? )

 

Phil

[autoluke]

Spell error:

 

BEST , not BEAST.

[Matt Harwood]

This subject comes up ALL the time. Everyone has this great idea the first time their 6-volt car struggles to start. Stupid 6-volt electrical system, so unreliable! I need 12 volts!

 

The truth is, 12 volts are completely and totally unnecessary. One, you probably have dirty grounds. Two, it's possible that your battery and starter cables are under-sized. And three, your starter brushes may be worn (not terribly likely, but possible). All these issues easier to fix than rigging up some halfbreed electrical system, and I bet they improve starting performance by a considerable margin. It won't spin over at 600 RPM, but it'll start like it should.

 

That's also neglecting the understanding that old cars simply crank slower than new cars, that's just how they are. I had a 1941 Cadillac that cranked so slowly that you think it'll never start, but just about when you're about to give up, it fired. Every single time. I had a 1941 Packard whose starter was so slow, it felt like I could turn it by hand faster than that. But it started every time, too. Some cars just turn slowly, but it only needs one cylinder to get gas and have a plug firing to start, so speed isn't everything. Just ask the guys with brass cars that start with one or two pulls of the hand crank!

 

I bet getting the electrical system in top condition and adjusting your expectations a bit will eliminate your concerns. If it starts, it starts. It's only when it doesn't turn at all that something is seriously amiss.

[autoluke]

Matt

 

Not intending to keep the issue debated to infinity, having the car operating under 6 volts during normal driving conditions, while having a 12 volt stand by for winter starting, seems like perfection.

[MCHinson]

Not to try to be argumentative but simplicity and perfection is simply having your 6 volt car working just like it did when new. Replacing any incorrect or bad cables, cleaning and tightening up all of the connections is really the best fix. I have had quite a few 6 volt cars. In proper condition, they all start just fine. Modifying what worked originally just makes it more complex and gives you a greater chance of having more problems down the road.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

 

 Not to negate the truth's the guys have said, yes, it can be done. Some years ago, Kenworths, which were 12V, started on 24V!  Of course, two or more batteries were used. It was all automatically taken care of with some switches in the starting circuit. Perhaps others did the same. May still be some doing the same. I do not know the wiring necessary.  

 

  Ben

[misterc9]

You are talking about a series / parallel switch. These were used on some big rigs years ago. The trucks ran and charged on twelve volts but used twenty four volts only to start There were a bunch of solenoids, relays and connectors but they worked. I've seen six volt cars set up like this using two six volt batteries. They started on twelve volts but ran on six. They worked but I don't know where they bought the parts.

[37_Roadmaster_C]

Not to argue but....

 

First to answer the question.  Yes you can design a hybrid 6/12 volt system.

 

Now, Matt is absolutely right.  My dads / my  37 Buick 320 is a stock 6 volt system.  It was used as a daily driver when my dad was in college until 1954.  In central Washington state the winters can be quite severe and dad swears that the car always started right up hot or cold.  His bigest complaint was the cost of antifreeze on a student budget.  We are in the final stages of a complete restoration right now and the car will remain 6 volt.  Also as Matt mentioned, a friend owns a 1913 Studebaker and I can always get it started within 3 up pulls on the crank summer or winter...

 

Robin

Edited August 23, 2016 by 37_Roadmaster_C
spelling (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

My 6 V 1939 Studebaker was very hard to start for a long time. Eventually I found only 2 V at the coil. All the connectors are zinc plated brass on steel bolts with steel washers and nuts, in other words lots of wee galvanic cells. The zinc corrodes and zinc oxide is a poor conductor. Once the zinc corrodes the steel rusts, more conduction reduction.

 

Clean up all the connectors. Use fine wet and dry and re-tin. Mine recovered once I got 6 V at the coil. This applies also to the heavy starter connections.

[Larry Schramm]

On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 7:45 AM, autoluke said:

Matt

 

Not intending to keep the issue debated to infinity, having the car operating under 6 volts during normal driving conditions, while having a 12 volt stand by for winter starting, seems like perfection.

 

Not necessary.  Why create a franken-monster car when it will work fine when the original parts are in good condition?

[ply33]

On August 21, 2016 at 3:36 AM, autoluke said:

Engine now runs fine with the standard 6 volt system, but struggles at start.

Would it be possible to have the beast of both worlds by arranging a 12 volt battery for start up, and then switching to a 6 volt operating system ?

 

 

( Washburn...are you out there ? )

 

Phil

 

Struggles to start? If you mean that it turns over very slowly there are at least two causes.

 

The easiest cause to fix is that the battery cables are in very bad shape or (more likely) someone put undersized cables designed for 12v on the car. Getting proper 6v cables is an easy fix.

 

Another pretty common reason is worn bushings in the starter and switching to 12v won't fix that.

[Rusty_OToole]

There are 2 ways to go:

 

Fix whatever is wrong with the 6V system. Simple, done.

 

Try to convert it to a 12V or mixed 6V 12V system at a cost in time and money of 10X the above. If you are lucky and smart, end up with something that works half assed.

 

When the bad 6V part that caused the trouble in the first place,  burns out on 12V fix it. Now you are where you would have been if you fixed it right in the first place, but with a messed up car @ 10X the work and expense.

[autoluke]

Good advice from many AACA people.

 

As suggested, I cleaned and/or replaced many of the primary wires, so that a strong current was available to activate  the starter.

 

EUREKA !!!   She turned over in good form and fired up.

 

Thanks to all.

 

Phil

[Matt Harwood]

Good news! Enjoy the car.

 

Always remember Occam's Razor with old cars: the simplest solution is usually the right one.

[MCHinson]

Glad to hear that you were able to solve your problem. Glad that the forum members were able to help.

[37_Roadmaster_C]

Great to hear.  Enjoy the car while the weather stays warm.

R

[GuernseyD]

On 8/23/2016 at 6:39 AM, Spinneyhill said:

My 6 V 1939 Studebaker was very hard to start for a long time. Eventually I found only 2 V at the coil. All the connectors are zinc plated brass on steel bolts with steel washers and nuts, in other words lots of wee galvanic cells. The zinc corrodes and zinc oxide is a poor conductor. Once the zinc corrodes the steel rusts, more conduction reduction.

 

Clean up all the connectors. Use fine wet and dry and re-tin. Mine recovered once I got 6 V at the coil. This applies also to the heavy starter connections.

Great work and will try this on our 6 Volt 6 Cylinder RHD 1935 Studebaker Dictator (New Zealand) that is also showing 2 V at the coil when tested due to repeated non-starting. In the mean time does anyone know where I can source a replacement coil please?

Part number stamped on the end of the ignition coil inside the bulkhead (coil penetrates the bulkhead) is IG 4607 which I understand to be an Autolite or Delco part number.