MrLiken

Early DB Top help

Recommended Posts

I'm trying to get back at this during the coming winter.  I could use some help figuring out what is normally done around the edges of the 'wings'.  The photo shows what appear to be a separate reinforcing piece that get s sewn to the folder over edge of wing.  The sketch is what I think is going on here (section through the bottom edge of wing).  It looks like something similar is going on at the left/right edges of the top.  I would appreciate any tips on how these reinforced areas are constructed.

 

IMG_2017.JPG

IMG_1985.JPG

reinforcement.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have too many folds in your sketch.  Get the top side panel to the correct line on side and back, then sew a separate reinforcing piece, matching that contour, at edge and 1.5-2 inches in from edge.  Binding then covers the raw edge.  This reinforcing Pierce is made slightly larger than sew lines then trimmed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi David,

I'm trying to make sure I understand how to bind off the wing.  I've sketched up what I understand to be a double edge binding around the wing material and reinforcing piece.  But in the photos, I don't see anything resembling the edge of the binding material showing on the outside of the top.  I would much appreciate help with this detail.1519927555_Bindingoff.jpg.f6a397925ddceb3e8e0b046fe1df0538.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been making some progress on the rear curtain.  I had to do some research and practice on binding edges.  It's not so difficult on straight sections or large radius curves but getting it right on tight radii outside curves (like the forward tip of side flaps) is tricky as the material really wants to bunch up.  I also found a contact cement that sprays a more fine mist of adhesive that, when applied carefully, does not soak through the bowdrill (tan color) inner liner material, (which causes stains on the displayed side).  

IMG_6061s.jpg

IMG_3633s.jpg

IMG_0025s.jpg

IMG_0040s.jpg

IMG_0026s.jpg

Edited by MikeC5 (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The binding for the edge is a bias binding, in that when fabricated the material to make it is cut an an angle to fabric weave, thus "bias".

 

I do understand your angst, it's a little tricky, but one learns to feed and slightly stretch  binding in such a way they there are a lot of little wrinkles, and no big wrinkles,  on an outside curve.....

 

Good luck, looks like you're making good progress....I see a lot of relief cuts, be careful with those as half an inch too far and rework ensues....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks David, I did cut the binding material on a 45 bias.  On the tight outside corners I ended up  carefully cutting 'pie slices' out every 1/4 inch to keep things flat.  I bought new 'pull-a-dot' anchors and fasteners for the side flaps since my top frame was missing a few of the anchors.  The originals have a wood screw thread so I assume there was solid wood inside the sockets.  That is no longer the case, in these locations anyway, so I've got to come up with an alternate plan to get the anchors to hold.  The anchors are available with an 8-32 stud instead of the wood screw thread so I can weld up the holes and re-drill/tap but I'd like to avoid that option.  I'm going to try Helicoil inserts and cross my fingers...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I got the rear curtain on there.  Not perfect where it wraps around the sides but I'm hoping I can smooth out those areas with a little heat.  

IMG_0055s.jpg

IMG_0056s.jpg

IMG_0057s.jpg

IMG_0060s.jpg

Edited by MikeC5 (see edit history)
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My understanding is that the cushions and seat backs and the inside rear trim pieces are upholstered separately.  The seat backs  go on first and have fittings that hook under the aft sheet metal wrap around and then bolts secure the lower portion.  I don't have any good photos of the rear seat details at the moment but it works similar to these of the front seat back.  The side pieces use the same idea.  

 

P3210401s.jpg

P3210408s.jpg

P3120813s.jpg

Edited by MikeC5 (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I hope everyone enjoyed this New Year's day! 

 

I have a question for David with regard to laying out the top panel seams.  You mentioned earlier in this thread:

Quote

To mark the two seams on the top panels, I put a piece of welting cord on the top of the pad, held with a single thread stitch to pad at each bow and in between each bow, and mark the cord at random 8-12 inch lengths with a marker.  These will be my marks to sew the panels together. Lay the main center panel on top, stretch it front to back and temporarily tack, pull taut sideways then mark from cord.  Do the same with the side panels.  Join these marks with lines on table, leave 1/4 inch sewing allowance,  cut a small vee in fabric at mark, and use these to line up when sewn.  TRUST YOUR MARK, don't second guess and think they're wrong when laid on table.  You then fold over and  top stitch this seam, always with the top stitch toward the center of the car.

 

I understand that you want the pads to hide the seam that joins the top panel and the side panels and I want to make the seam parallel to the inboard edge of the pads(?).  I've got my marking cord stretched between the front and rear bow, 1 inch outboard of the pad inboard edge at each of these bows (a straight line between these two anchor points).  The cord position at the 2nd and 3rd bows comes closer to the pad edges than 1" so I need to move the cord to achieve the 1" spacing to edge of pad for bows 2 and 3 and then do a stitch to hold it in place at those points.  Does this sound correct?IMG_0066s.thumb.jpg.bfea068427d4cd759e1109e88e7d43b8.jpg

 

Also, when you say fold over and top stitch with top stitch toward center of car, do you mean the fold should point to center of car (see photo)?  I did some practice pieces of top stitching and am also curious about the location of the stitch closest to the fold.  I seems easiest to position the stitch such that the fold is made immediately adjacent to the stitch since the stitch then controls where the fold occurs.  Some sources show leaving some distance between the stitch and fold.  How do you normally do it?

 

As always, you advice is greatly appreciated.

 

IMG_0066s.jpg

flat seam 2.jpg

flat seam.jpg

Edited by MikeC5 (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Hi- you may have to adjust the cording location so that there's not a zig-zag when you view from the front.  The exact dimension from edge of pad isn't really important, as long as seam is hidden by pad.

 

I must have misspoken somehow.  The stitch itself is toward the inside of the car, the fold is outside of the stitch.   The fold that you show with the arrows "to the center of car" is backwards, the "open" edge of the folded seam should be to the outside of the car.  Think about rainwater, you don't want to trap it in the middle, you want it to roll over and  off the seam.  In other words, the very last diagram you show, to the right would be the outside of the car.

 

I only use one top stitch, and the "tail" isn't as big as you show.   After you sew the two pieces together, fold it over snugly (but not pulling so much the first sewn thread shows) and then run the top stitch about 3/16 inch from the edge of the fold.  If you practice with the foot on your sewing machine, you'll find a reference from the edge of the foot to the folded seam, and that helps you keep it straight and true.

 

Use bonded polyester thread that's UV resistant, otherwise your thread will fade.  

 

Hope all that makes sense.

Edited by trimacar (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you David.  Your help is invaluable.  I am using the UV resistant polyester thread (138 size).  Strong stuff!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm almost ready to sew the top seams.  Good thing I have a helper...

helper.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm trying to come up with something top related like a bow wow, but it's just not coming.  He seams to be a nice puppy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's 7 years old and 100 lbs and thinks he's a lap dog....  He loves to ride in the Dodge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got the seams sewed up.  I can say that any extra time spent setting up a large table(s) at equal height to feed and receive the sewn top as it goes through the machine is well worth it.  I tried to get by with a little less than that and  it just makes keeping it going straight that much harder.  Overall, they came out pretty straight but not error-free.  

 

IMG_00811.thumb.JPG.eab8d0db2974b52362ac4f28f1a19360.JPG

IMG_00799.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must say I don’t quite understand what I’m looking at in your picture.  On a touring top, when fabric is laid on a table as you show, there are no continuous straight lines, and the side panels aren’t rectangles in any way, nor will it lay flat.  Just don’t understand what you’re showing nor what you’ve done.  It also looks like, though hard to tell, you have rounded edge of seam facing toward inside of car, when it should be to outside.  Hope I’m wrong and you’ve done it correctly...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi David,

It is hard to tell from the photo but the seams are sewn with orientation as in the diagram.  I cut the side panels as rectangles for simplicity; I know a fair amount will be trimmed off once I get it on the car and mark where the edges should be.  I thought you sewed the top and side panels together before trying to mark where to trim the sides so I made sure I left extra trim allowance. 

Laid on the table, the seam may appear to be a single straight line but it isn't.  The seam does change angle slightly at the 2nd and 3rd bow and the seams are further apart at the rear bow than at the front (by roughly 3 inches), forward end is closer to the camera.  But they are straight lines from 1st to 2nd bow, 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th.  The first photo showing the black side up after sewing may be a little confusing because the edge panel on left is partly hanging off edge of the table.  I'm not sure I understand why it wouldn't lay flat at this point.  The seams did end up at my string locations.

flat seam 2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, pictures can be deceptive.  Hope it works out well. 
 

The side panels are not rectangles, by the way.  You have to wrap the fabric around the sides,  mark to top panel accordingly,  if anything they are elongated triangles,  otherwise they won’t wrap around to rear bow correctly.

 

As with any upholstery work, easy to show in person, hard to describe in words.

Edited by trimacar (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mike, 
       I am following your post with great interest and you are doing a great service posting these details as you go.  There are a couple of detail items that I think need to be clarified.  I am about to start on the top for  my 1925 Buick, and my son's father in law has a 1922 Dodge Touring so I know your car fairly well.  This goes back to Jan's question.  
1) On the Buick - and likely the Dodge, both seat backs are upholstered to the car.  You can remove the seat bottom, but not the seat back.  The back of the seat is tacked to the top side of the seat wood.  There is also a wood strip screwed to the wood frame under the seats.  The leather at the base of the seat back is tacked to the frond side of this wood.  The seat side panels are also tacked to the inside side of the lower wood.
2) The bowdrill on the back of the car - I think it should be on the back side of the rear bow, and on the back side of the wood that is attached to the top of the rear toneau sheet metal.  The bowdrill cloth covering on the rear bow should be visible all the way around the bow and not just on the ends.  This would allow you to install the leather seat covering to the top of the back wood and cover it with hidem(or the early style hidem with black tacks).  It also leaves the 2 rear top straps exposed.    

Sorry for the late response but I am just now reading this thread as I am about to embark on the same mission you are on.    Hugh

1440605908_Leifbackseatphotopaint.thumb.jpg.9923d6e78a596da2ff2c388539c25f50.jpg883430778_2015-11-0216_47_42.thumb.jpg.81ba3f96cadd33cd9ed7c0a222aacdaf.jpg1933110894_Buick1925baksits003.thumb.jpg.99d4f2e1daf778919ff830e8340004e8.jpg850215065_Buicksufflett005.thumb.jpg.170435d894411251be7bc1130326e330.jpg

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Hubert,

Thank you for the interest.  It may be different on a '22 Dodge than what I found with the '25 as far as the upper rear seat back.  Although I am not 100% certain, it appears to me that the seat back was designed to be upholstered and then installed  (I think my seats still had the original leather/horsehair too).  Like the upper front seat back I had attached photos of earlier, there is a tack strip on back side of the spring assembly so the leather can go up and over and tacked on the back side (you can kind of see this in last attached pic).   As it also shows for the front seat back, the rear seat back has hooks that engage the  tub inner edge to hold it in place (and bolts hold the lower portion to captured nuts in the tub, see attached).  The  rear side pieces work the same way.   Unfortunately, curved wood segment that bolts to the top of the rear tub was missing and so this piece of evidence was not there and I saw no evidence of wood down on the floor pan as in your photo.  I would welcome hearing from anyone who can confirm how their '25 was put together.  The  rear side pieces work the same way as described for seat back.  It would seem that being able to upholster the seats separately from the body assembly would be advantageous from a production viewpoint but that's just a guess.  

 

You are correct about the rear inner curtain.  I did initially try to attach it to the rear side of rear bow but it was impossible to get it stretched out wrinkle free because it can't be moved independent of the outer curtain (you have to drive tacks through both).  I finally gave up and did it as shown.  It would be nice to learn how a pro would do it...  As for the bottom of the inner curtain, I copied what I observed on a '25 I saw at Hershey one year (attached earlier in this thread).  Actually, if this was correct, it would jive with the seat back being upholstered separately.

 

I need to get some good photos of the rear seat back....

 

rear pan after 2.jpg

rear 2.jpg

Edited by MikeC5 (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I forget how it was done I believe the answer would be in the video the DBC sells. It is a video that shows much of how the early cars were built from factory footage. It even says how much leather and horsehair was used every day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now