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alini

How is your first crank after its sat a few days?

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Sorry guys, Im learning as I go.  The car didnt run when I got it so I dont have any kind of reference points for how its all working so far.

 

When the car has sat a day or two and I go to start it, I find myself pumping the gas alot getting enough fuel in it to fire.  Im suspecting its partly the changes in gas over the years and possibly the fact the engine isnt completely broken in yet so the initial vacuum could be suspect.   Once its fired up its running fine and once its warm I just turn the key and it fires.

 

How does yours start after its sat a few days???

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Yeah, probably 20 seconds to start it (off, on, off, on, pumps, etc) is normal for me. I start it every couple of weeks.

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My '64 Riv. has been that way since day one in '64 after sitting for a few days or a week.

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Two common causes for long cranking after a few days of sitting. 

 

1. Leaking well plugs in the bottom of the fuel bowl allows it to drain dry

2. Apparently, modern gasoline evaporates quicker than what we had years ago

 

Also, make sure your choke is properly adjusted.  

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My freshly rebuilt 66 is same way after about 2-3 days of sitting. I was wondering if I plugged/sealed the inlets in air cleaner if it might help slow evaporation by not allowing air to enter the bowl vent tubes.

 

Is your choke is working properly? Got an education this past week on how the AFB choke system works and there are some key points that must all be functioning. Had to correct a couple issues with mine and it definitely helped speed up cold starts after sitting. Still have to crank a bit but starts sooner.

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The wells go dry. Mine has always been like that. I started it on Sunday after sitting for about 2 months. It took the same amount of cranking it would if it had been three days, maybe just a bit more. If you use it as a getaway car don't park it across the street from the bank the night before. That caution applies to AFB's and 4GC's. The 4GC will start right up but stumble on the choke.

Bernie

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This problem is the main reason that I installed an in-line electric pump close to the tank.  I have it set up on a relay that comes on for a few seconds with the ignition, fills the bowl, and stays on through the cranking.  The relay then shuts off when the key is in the run position and the mechanical pump takes over..  Or if you don't want the relay, you can run the electric pump and the mechanical pump simultaneously.

 

Ed

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Just nice to know that the old carb and distributor set up requires some momentum and fuel pumping to get her started ;).  So used to electronic ignition and fuel injection these days ya forget how people had to work to live ;)

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I guess that we should all be glad that there's not a spark advance lever on the steering column and a crank handle sticking get out of the grill.

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               Ed's suggestion of the electric primer pump is the best solution to the problem, although so far I haven't been able

to convince myself to mod my survivor Riviera. What I do on my car is every time I want to take it out, I pop the hood, pop the air cleaner lid

and give the throat of the carb I nice long squirt of Berryman's B12 chemtool carb cleaner in the aerosol can. The engine fires immediately

with the Berryman's in the carb, and this saves wear and tear on my starter. I may yet install a primer pump if I get tired of manually priming it.

Edited by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

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I've thought about doing the spray in the carb thing too, just to eliminate all the cranks. Any downside? Is that no issue for the fuel lines?

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Perhaps someone needs to start a new cottage industry.  Little clear rubber bulbs on the gas line; the kind that are on you two cycle engines.  Give them a few pumps and you're off.  Those of you driving cars with a Rochester Quadrajet need to read up on how gas will spill through a couple of plugs in the base.  There are ways of sealing those plugs so the gas stays in the float bowl rather than draining out.

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The best solution for restarting your Riv after an extended period is to use a trickle charger on the battery. A little cranking to fill the float bowl will get oil moving to the bearings and in a collector car the cumulative wear on the starting system is minimal. If your car fails to start after enough cranking to fill the float bowl then there is an issue with the accelerator pump in the carb.

  Tom Mooney

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It's just the way these older engines work, after they sit for a day, or longer, unless you take steps to modify the original existing set up.

Modern engines with their fuel injection and electric fuel pumps that start with just a flick of the key, or a starter fob, or a simple push button have spoiled us !

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3 hours ago, 1965rivgs said:

The best solution for restarting your Riv after an extended period is to use a trickle charger on the battery. A little cranking to fill the float bowl will get oil moving to the bearings and in a collector car the cumulative wear on the starting system is minimal. If your car fails to start after enough cranking to fill the float bowl then there is an issue with the accelerator pump in the carb.

  Tom Mooney

 

I wasnt talking about after a storage period, I was looking at a few days ;)  But these are good tips

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I have a toggle switch and with an electric fuel pump by the gas tank, merely flip on the toggle switch until it stops pumping, meaning the carb if full, then crank the engine and flip off the electric

pump, leaving the car running on its factory mechanical pump.  I'm not sure about carb cleaner, ether, because depending on how it goes into the cylinders, does it wash off the oil and the cylinder walls as well as the rings are dry .......rather than carb cleaner and/or solvents squirt some gasoline into the carb with the same results and gasoline does have some lubricating qualities .... my two cents.  Paul

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When I quit driving my '63 as a daily driver, it would be a little hard to start without a lot of crankings, as stated above.  I got a small oil squirt can and filled it with gasoline.  A couple of squirts over each venturi and it would start right away.

 

Powerbuilt 648750 Pistol Type Oil Can with Base

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Neither the Rochester type 4G series carbs nor the Carter type AFB carbs have the infamous well plugs like the 1965 to 1967 Rochester quadrajets (Rochester fixed the well plug leakage with the 1968 models, the 1968 and up do NOT leak). So evaporation is the issue with either the type AFB or the type 4G.

 

I have installed electric pumps on all my older vehicles, so no longer have this issue; however, if one does have the issue and doesn't wish to install the electric pump, try emptying a ketchup or mustard squirt bottle, cleaning, filling with fuel, and use the squirt bottle to fill the carburetor bowl(s) throught the bowl vents. Much better than squirting anything down the choke area.

 

I have never tried, but possibly someone could attach a tube to one of the bowl vents and run it outside the aircleaner, so the bowl could be filled without removing the aircleaner.

 

Ed - I typed on this post, got called away twice and finished a couple of hours after beginning. Your pictured oil can with gasoline would be superior to the ketchup bottle, just more expensive. If you like ketchup, the ketchup bottle is free ;)

 

EDIT - I have never owned a V-8 with a crank, but several 4 and 6 cylinders with a hand-crank. ALL would start quicker with the crank than with the electric starter......more voltage to the plugs. And the looks one got from bystanders were just priceless ;) 

 

Jon.

Edited by carbking (see edit history)

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I give mine three pumps and crank for about 3 seconds until it starts. I have never found it an issue worth bothering with.

 

The bowl vent idea reminded me of our friend, Lenny, from High School. His Dad ran the MoPar shop in town. Lenny drove a '49 Dodge in HS. Probably with his Father's guidance, he brazed a tubing fitting to the air cleaner and attached it to the windshield washer bag.... filled with waste oil. When he pulled up to the pumps at the Esso station near my street he would increase the idle and push the windshield washer button. The attendant got to know his car rear quick and wouldn't stand in the cloud of smoke.

 

So, how many of you have functional washers and don't use them?

 

Maybe that and the ketchup bottle and my idea are are not so good- So, it's a brisk Spring day and I am getting ready to bring the cars out. I decide a little exercise would be good. I put on a ski mask and a flannel lined raincoat. Then I put the five windshield wiper bags under the coat to carry them easily. And take a 3/4 time walk to the station to fill them. The attendant is concerned and calls the police Holy Hillary's Email! This is gonna take some 'splainin.

 

stock-photo-a-person-wearing-sunglasses-

 

Oops! A pistola. It's OK I have a permit. Just hold this plastic bag of gasoline while I get it out.

 

Keep the battery charged and prosper.

Bernie

 

 

Edited by 60FlatTop (see edit history)
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I, too, have an electric fuel pump installed and powered by a spring loaded switch that I must hold down to run the fuel pump.  It does not accidentally get left on.  Before cranking the first time, I hold the switch on.  I listen to the sound that the electric fuel pump makes.  When the carb is full and the float needle valves close, you can hear the tone of the pump change.  Then I step on the gas pedal 3 times and crank.  It fires right up.

 

This does not require any permanent modifications to your car.  The fuel pump is inserted into one of the sections of rubber fuel hose that the stock car had.  Do not cut any steel lines.  There is rubber line back by the tank and there is rubber up by the right front wheel.  Either spot works.  A single wire will easily pass through the firewall where you have something else going through.  I mounted the switch to the left of the steering column and up under the dash, out of sight.  It is easy to find by touch.

 

It can all be removed in the future and you would never know it was there.

 

 

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I've done this since my '64 was new. If the car sat for more than a few days it would crank & crank, then finally start. Most/many collector cars sometimes sit for months before being used. I would rather my car not start immediately. I don't pump the pedal at all UNTIL i see the oil pressure gauge move. I do this for 15-20 seconds at a time. Then while cranking pump the pedal. My reasoning is that I DON"T want the engine to start until I see oil pressure so the engine doesn't start DRY. Some say that the starter will get worn out. My opinion is the starter is MUCH easier to take out & rebuild than replacing bearings/rings from dry starts. My engine now has over 225K on it since I rebuilt it in the early 70's.

Until I designed the "MINI" starters for the "Nails" i had my original starter out ONE TIME for a rebuild after 40+ yrs.

Just another opinion.

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52 minutes ago, telriv said:

I've done this since my '64 was new. If the car sat for more than a few days it would crank & crank, then finally start. Most/many collector cars sometimes sit for months before being used. I would rather my car not start immediately. I don't pump the pedal at all UNTIL i see the oil pressure gauge move. I do this for 15-20 seconds at a time. Then while cranking pump the pedal. My reasoning is that I DON"T want the engine to start until I see oil pressure so the engine doesn't start DRY. Some say that the starter will get worn out. My opinion is the starter is MUCH easier to take out & rebuild than replacing bearings/rings from dry starts. My engine now has over 225K on it since I rebuilt it in the early 70's.

Until I designed the "MINI" starters for the "Nails" i had my original starter out ONE TIME for a rebuild after 40+ yrs.

Just another opinion.

225k on a rebuild ... Wow! My 65 rivi gs has never even had the valve covers off. I baby the car and keep the oil clean. Upon initial start up there is a light tick coming from one of the lifters bit goes away once warmed. I think the engine has over 100k but cant say for sure. Odometer does not work. I do not plan on doing a rebuild so long as she runs good. She does use oil though. Where it goes  i dont know. Does not smoke AT ALL leaks very little motor oil. I start my car in the same manner as teleriv for the same reasons. Once warmed up she fires right up in what seems like 1/2 a revolution. Car has original motor and trans. 

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