Rebuilding my 69 GS

[Greymist69]

Almost ready to fire her up again after ten years of storage. I bought her not running in May with 53,000 miles indicated (just noticed that the speedo cable was unhooked from the cruise control assembly). 

 

So far I've been through the fuel system, the brakes,and ignition. Installed the rebuilt Quadrajet last night, and the old distributor (with a new rotor, condensor, points and cap) and coil. Set the static timing and point gap too. Tonight I checked the plug gaps and laced the plug wires. Then drained the transmission fluid. Rear end is next.

 

She needed the fuel tank cleaned and resealed, and a new fuel pump. Couldn't rebuild the old sending unit assembly, it was too far gone, so I bought a rebuilt one. (Gm Obsolete - ouch!). Pumps gas to the front of the car, so far so good. That took most of May.

All 5 of the brake cylinders were frozen so I swapped those out, master and 4 wheels. 3 out of 4 of the steel lines broke in the process, so replaced those. Adjusted the shoes, we have brakes again!

 

Fighting with the new exhaust now, the old was rusted out completely - a squirrel had moved into one of the mufflers and filled it with peanut shells! Got the 2.5 inch set from TA Performance, and some Flowmaster 40s. One of the manifold to downpipe flange studs snapped off - Why is one (passenger side) smaller than the others? Manifold to head bolts are frozen too, so that'll be a problem. Drivers side should be fine, but I just can't get the flange nuts started on the down pipe - just need one or two more threads! Took off the butterfly for the manifold heat, cleaned all that up. Did it have a gasket? Anyway, frustrated, may have to see a professional muffler man for the fix. Could always cut them off and put headers on I guess.

 

Chassis, suspension and steering seem OK, just a little rusty. I'll have a shop check a little closer later, maybe get an alignment down the road. Bodywise there is a little rust in the floor under the driver's seat to fix, a new carpet, whack the seat motors a few times to get them unstuck, then start thinking about the exterior and paint. Door and window seals are pretty good, although there was some suspicious dampness on the passenger side I need to track down. Everything else is pretty solid, just surface rust and a rough vinyl top.

Electrically everything seems to be working except the driver's seat, which probably just needs encouragement. I did notice that the courtesy light stay on as long as the battery is connected, so I'll need to trace that circuit for a switch that's not opening like it should.

 

Nothing is leaking (so far), seems like it should be ready for ignition - go for throttle up?

 

So, before i turn the key in earnest, what else do I need to double check?

[RoadShark]

The 10-year-old motor oil would concern me a little.  I'd be tempted to change the oil and filter before firing it up.  Also, I would pull the plugs and squirt Mystery Oil in the combustion chambers so that the rings don't start up bone dry against the cylinder walls.

 

Some people would probably want to pre-lube the engine before firing.  I'd just let the Mystery Oil wet the rings and call it good, but that's me...

[Seafoam65]

                    95 per cent probability the valves are all completely stuck in their bores. If I were you I'd pull the heads and

have them gone through instead of trying to start the motor and bending all the pushrods. We get cars like this that sat for

years in my shop every few months and the valves are always stuck and we have to do the heads. The rust you have in other areas of the car indicates that the valves are probably so stuck you would have to beat them out of their bores with a sledgehammer, like what

we had to do on a 66 Ford Pickup that we got running last month after sitting for only seven years. 

[Guest Jilla 66 rivi GS]

I agree with Roadshark, get a turkey basin or syringe and squirt some Marvel Mystery oil in each spark plug hole, change the oil and filter, and drain and refill the coolant. Of course change fuel filter etc if you haven't already. I had a 69 Wildcat with a 430 that had 110k miles going strong, it had sat for a good period of time when I came along. I done the specified above with great results. I recommend disconnecting the positive wire to the coil and allow the engine to turn for a full minute to get the oil flowing good. I run valvoline vr1 full synthetic in every old car I own. It has the highest level of zddp you can find... old engines get along good with it, its designed for flat tappet ( old engines). I always fill my oil filters up with M.M.O before I screw them on. It would be wise to change the mechanical fuel pump at this time along with the rubber fuel lines etc. Be careful with the waterpump bolts when you go down that road,  steel bolts and aluminum don't get along well together over time

Edited July 2, 2016 by Jilla 66 rivi GS
Left out info (see edit history)

[Pat Curran]

The 69 Riviera was the first GM car to come with an electric fuel pump from the factory.  Hopefully you checked its operation when you had the tank out.  Buick came up with "Accudrive" in 1969 which was nothing more than a camber tweak but they called it "revolutionary" in the 69 advertising.  According to my factory shop manual, the alignment settings are different for bias ply and radial tires but a good front end shop should be able to do it right.  If the dampness is under the carpet, consider the heater core as possibly leaking as well as any bad weather stripping or sealant around the doors and windows.

[Eric's.64.Superwildcat]

I'd don't have experience with an engine that has sat for so long, but it is my understanding that it is best to remove the plugs and turn the engine manually (after placing oil in the cylinders) to ensure it spins.  It is better to find something stuck this way than by forcing it with the starter motor.  

[Guest Jilla 66 rivi GS]

2 hours ago, Pat Curran said:

The 69 Riviera was the first GM car to come with an electric fuel pump from the factory.  Hopefully you checked its operation when you had the tank out.  Buick came up with "Accudrive" in 1969 which was nothing more than a camber tweak but they called it "revolutionary" in the 69 advertising.  According to my factory shop manual, the alignment settings are different for bias ply and radial tires but a good front end shop should be able to do it right.  If the dampness is under the carpet, consider the heater core as possibly leaking as well as any bad weather stripping or sealant around the doors and windows.

Wonder why the 69 Riviera had a electric in tank fuel pump, but my 69 Wildcat with the same 430 had a block mounted mechanical fuel pump?? Weird!

[Greymist69]

Hey thanks for all the advice guys! The motor does turn over, just doesn't fire just now.

All of the fluids are changed, oil, filter, transmission, coolant, brake. Checked the rear end too, it was topped off. 

Seems like it was put away with oil in the cylinders, and the P.O. tried to get it started up before he sold it. Blew out the oil, changed the plugs when he pulled it out of storage. Said he blew some ether in it and it kicked a few times, with a separate gas can as the fuel source. Biggest issue was the fuel system; had to clean and reseal the fuel tank, then replace the fuel pump/sending unit, and rubber lines. Flow checked out OK, then I rebuilt the carb. So its getting fuel.

So it turns over and there's voltage to the coil, but no spark from the primary or the plug.

I bought a shiny yellow Accel Coil online - supposed to fit my car but the resistance is higher than spec. Maybe that's my spark problem?

Rolled it out of the garage anyway, found out the brakes were barely working at all. Still an improvement on completely broken, but they need further adjustment.

Exhaust is still a PITA, might need to bring it to a shop for that, find someone that wants to cuss at my broken studs and rounded manifold bolts for me.

Anyway. all for now, checking further on the coil sizing.

pics attached.

[Guest Jilla 66 rivi GS]

She sure looks solid! Nice car. Anyway,  any time I approach a no spark issue or with anything, I start with the basics or the little things. I believe you already done the internals of the distributor. Did everything appear clean? Points have to be snugged down pretty good and gapped properly (although I've  eyeballed the gap and got engines to run)... the condenser should be perfectly round, any weird shape or out of round would indicate it's bad. The BLACK  wire coming from your distributor base goes to the (-) negative terminal on your coil. I've found the wires swapped around a couple times, and in my case... it burned the coil, points, & condenser up. So definitely start in that area. I've  had questions about resistance and such myself. A points system only needs 9 volts to operate properly, therefore the resistor breaks the 12v into 9v otherwise the points would burn up. People can always come up with formulas for this and that, but making it reality in our applications is often times tough. That's  why we have one another to help out! IMO I would go for a factory replacement spec coil. I have a box of them, some new some used and if I need one I reach in and grab it, I don't read the labels and they always work. To help narrow it down though, I believe a resistance of 1 to 3 ohms  is ideal, with factory points. Now that you've given more specifics, I'll  try to help you look into it further. The starter wires also play a part in your ignition. Make sure connections are clean and everything has to be grounded. Battery to body, battery  to engine, engine to firewall etc 

Edited July 4, 2016 by Jilla 66 rivi GS (see edit history)

[Guest Jilla 66 rivi GS]

I bet if you change the coil she will fire! If you see no spark, the coil is a good thing to suspect next.

You'll need a digital multimeter to check the resistance levels of your coil. The side terminals of the coil are marked positive (+) and negative (–) and these are where you can measure the resistance of the primary windings. Set the multimeter to the 200-ohm setting and attach the meter's leads corresponding to the terminal markings, red being positive and black being negative. The normal primary reading for 12V on the primary side is 1.6, although a range of 1.5 to 1.7 is acceptable.

Next, you'll want to measure the resistance of the secondary coil, and this is the real business-end of the spark-producer. Switch the meter's resistance range to the 20K-ohm setting and attach the negative (black) meter lead to the center terminal of the coil. The reading here should be 11.00 or better, with 13.49 being about normal. If your coil reads under 11.00, then chances are pretty good that this is the reason you're not getting any spark or a very weak one. If you want to avoid all the technical crap, just go to autozone and buy the entry level coil. Chances are... down the line you will convert to electronic anyway. Less maintenance/ more reliable. Although both get the job done. My 66 is still running on points

Edited July 4, 2016 by Jilla 66 rivi GS
Forgot useful info (see edit history)

[Greymist69]

Hi Jilla;

I cleaned the ground connections, still no spark at the coil tower. Changed the coil too. I did discover a mis-wiring inside the distributor; the wire from the negative terminal of the coil was not connected to the points terminal correctly with the condensor wire, it was connected to a mounting screw for the points. I fixed that, but still no spark. Maybe I burned the condenser?

There is only one wire from the harness to the positive terminal of the coil, is that correct? The voltage with the ignition coil is 5.5V to the positive terminal, which is good, but when I crank the starter it drops to 4.5V. Is that correct?

Thanks

Dave

[Guest Jilla 66 rivi GS]

Hi Dave, 

Don't  get me lying to you about the exact voltage to expect. Haha. If the condenser is suspect,  go grab one at autozone! Cheap! I do know a quick solution to get 'er up and going  though. You can run a 12 gauge wire directly from the small terminal on the starter to the (+) side of the coil as a direct feed. I believe its the left side ( purple/brown?. You  will have to disconnect the battery when done though. I can get mine in the air and see, if you are interested in going that route, just to get her going. That will give you a chance to see how healthy she is. Sounds like you have a faulty ground somewhere to me, I'd  check the fuses as well. Are you considering electronic ignition in the future? Ever had any electrical gremlins? Lights, blinkers,  work? Power seat, windows work?

Edited July 12, 2016 by Jilla 66 rivi GS (see edit history)

[Greymist69]

I couldn't figure it out. Even the jumper trick didn't work. I had her towed to a local mechanic. Went by today, the guy behind the counter said "Well we usually don't take that old of a car here, when the boss sees it I'm not sure what he's going to say". But, I had all of the parts already, he thought that would help. Ignition parts were not hard to find. Anyway I'll let them have it for a while, see if they call with a revelation, or if they want to tow it back to the house.Cant imagine they would kick me out, but if you know anyone in Miami that loves classic car repair please pass their name along!

[Greymist69]

OK, Charlies Auto repair took care of it, it was bad or poorly adjusted points. It runs now, the exhaust is installed, the brakes are being checked out. Needed a new center link, that's on order. Replacing the valve guides and valve cover gaskets while we are at it. 

Having trouble tuning the carb - the flow from the replacement fuel pump might be a little strong. The spec calls for at least a pint in 30 seconds,(Min 15 GPH)  but the fuel pump spec says 25 - 40 GPH. 

Anyone have experience with some sort of fuel flow regulator?

[Guest Jilla 66 rivi GS]

Glad to hear you got her going!  Points were the issue with mine as well.  Although, Thankfully I didn't need a 3rd party. I mentioned the starter jumper wire, thinking the original ignition wire may have been the culprit. Improperly installed or adjusted points  won't  let her fire either! Haha. Sometimes the obvious is often overlooked

 Either way, it's a learning experience. You can install a fuel pressure regulator anywhere before the carb and adjust it between 6 & 8 psi...thats all it will need. Problem  solved! So happy to hear your progress! Very motivating

 

[Guest Jilla 66 rivi GS]

I'm  curious to know if their is a mechanical fuel pump block off plate on your motor?? I bet if you were to look on the timing cover, you would see one. My 69 Wildcat had a 430 with a timing cover mounted mechanical  fuel pump. There can't be many differences between the two..the engine was only made for 2 years. What I'm  getting at is, the mechanical fuel pump is much more practical. Easier to maintenance, inspect, or repair and you always get the proper fuel flow

 

[1965rivgs]

On 7/3/2016 at 9:17 AM, Eric's.64.Superwildcat said:

I'd don't have experience with an engine that has sat for so long, but it is my understanding that it is best to remove the plugs and turn the engine manually (after placing oil in the cylinders) to ensure it spins.  It is better to find something stuck this way than by forcing it with the starter motor.  

 

Great advice. I  use an aerosol product like marine "fogging oil" which when squirted in the cylinder will hopefully make its way onto any exposed valve stems. Also a good idea while one has the spark plug removed to use an air pistol with an extended end (like a short piece of metal brake line) inserted into the spark plug hole  to further distribute the oil around in the cylinder. Turn it over by hand a few times and repeat this in different positions in the engine rotation. It`s a good idea to allow the oil to work for a period of time after the first application of fogging oil. I would perform this exercise when restarting an idle car before investing time and money in changing any other fluids, etc

  Tom Mooney

Edited July 27, 2016 by 1965rivgs (see edit history)

[Greymist69]

Update:

Picked up the Riv from the shop, they got it running like a champ, installed the exhaust, adjusted/fixed the brakes and aligned the front end. One of the belts failed, then the water pump started leaking, but that's all fixed now, with new belts, a new pump and a flush. She's loud - attracts a lot of attention. Drover her around today waiting for the radiator flush to do it's job, received three or four thumbs up.

I have a hole to repair under the passenger floor, a front bench seat cover to repair, (and motor to get unfrozen) - maybe fix the A/C and then I can start to work on the body and paint!

 

[RivNut]

The motor may not be frozen.  Over years, if the seat is left in one position,  crud will build up on the worm drive and it won't travel.  Try giving everything before rebuilding the motor.

[Greymist69]

Update - the '69 GS runs and drives just fine - could probably use some fine adjustments, but for the most part she runs quite well.

I'm fixing the rust now, prepping for paint. Stripped all the carpet & seats, chrome and stainless trim, found all the hidden rust. There's surface rust coming up from under the paint too. So, stripping the paint to bare metal. Will need to weld in some patches - already welded in new floor sections on the drivers side, so that's done, with a friend's MIG welding help. For the rest I'm borrowing a MIG welder and teaching myself (and my 17 year old son, who is "helping") how to weld.

So, stripping all of the paint and welding all of the holes, then going back and sanding/grinding the surface rust off the bare steel. Patch panels on doors, fenders and wheel well arches to form and weld in, should be entertaining. Need to pull the glass to fix the holes around the windshield and rear glass, tool is on order.

Then what? How do I treat the clean bare metal? Just a primer, or do I coat it with Ospho first, or some other bare metal treatment?

I want to treat it, prime it, then block it, then put in any body filler required to finish, then take it to the professional painter to complete. Probably a pearly grey for the respray, close to original but a little more pearl.

Any So Fla paint & body shops to suggest?

Then I get to reassemble, fix the A/C a few other minor accessories, and enjoy!

[Greymist69]

So, finally finished the welding, body filler, sanding and priming. Found a body shop to finish the prep and paint her, and they should start work tomorrow! They say they'll have it done in a couple months. Then I'll take it back home to finish the glass, weather strip, interior and reinstall the chrome trim. 

 

So, the front windscreen cracked while I had it stored, any good source besides Old Car Parts Depot? Also will need a carpet, maybe new seat covers. The pot metal trim will get a good buffing, but no rechrome, let me know if you have any tips.

[Greymist69]

Paint is done, interior is done, added wheels what do you think!

[RoadShark]

Man, you did a lot of work and it came out nice.  I love that color.

Edited November 16, 2018 by RoadShark (see edit history)

[Rivdrivn]

Wow. Very nice indeed!

[NC1968Riviera]

Great restoration! Congrats!

 

[pyntre]

That’s what I would call “ATTACKING” a restoration !!!!! Nice job all the way around !!! Hope you gets years of enjoyment out of it ......

 

 

[Seafoam65]

         Looks very nice......I like the color you chose.  

Edited November 16, 2018 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[68RIVGS]

Looks very nice after all your time and troubles - well worth the effort Greymist69 !

That color does  look really great - I'm guessing  you went with the original '69 Deep Grey Mist, Code: L

My '68 was painted almost the same color - it's a Medium Grey Metallic, an '86 GM color.

It still looks as good today as it did 35+ years ago !

So I'm sort of partial to shiny Grey cars. LOL   

 

[Greymist69]

Hi Randy

I chose a more recent Buick grey, this one is Smoky Grey Metallic from 2016. That's what I told the paint shop I wanted anyway, I haven't seen its exact match on another car on the road yet, Buick or otherwise. 

[68RIVGS]

Absolutely gorgeous Greymist69 - it just suits the car.

Here's my '68 Riviera at the Hershey Annual ROA meet in 2010.

Thanks for the color id.-  you made a very good choice !  

Edited November 17, 2018 by 68RIVGS (see edit history)

[Greymist69]

So, can anyone help me with...

An accelerator pedal?

[RivNut]

How "exact" do you want it to be?  A repo is made for the 65 era Chevy Impala that mounts on the same two ball studs.  New studs are available as well.

[68RIVGS]

. . . apply a little silicone grease to the replacement pedal - it will come off easier if it's necessary to remove it again !

It will also keep the steel ball studs from rusting and chewing up the pedal rubber sockets.

[Greymist69]

On 12/5/2018 at 8:33 PM, RivNut said:

How "exact" do you want it to be?  A repo is made for the 65 era Chevy Impala that mounts on the same two ball studs.  New studs are available as well.

Studs are no problem. The repo i found is not close enough to work. Still looking.

[68RIVGS]

I believe all "full size"  '68/'69 Buick Riviera, Wildcat, and Electra 225,  and possibly other years shared the same accelerator pedal.

[PWB]

6 hours ago, Greymist69 said:

Studs are no problem. The repo i found is not close enough to work. Still looking.

Try Tim at:

 

elco1979@yahoo.com

 

May take a few days to get a response.

 

Let us know how you make out

[Greymist69]

On 12/9/2018 at 12:26 AM, PWB said:

Try Tim at:

 

elco1979@yahoo.com

 

May take a few days to get a response.

 

Let us know how you make out

He has one, buying it tonight. thanks for the tip!