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Insurance is driving me nuts.


benjamin j
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Oh yes, I can read quite well, thank you.  You state that you never even tell them what car it is you want to insure.

 

So how does the conversation go?  The first question they'd want answered is what kind of car you're discussing.

 

You:  I want to insure a car for $75,000

Them: What kind of car is it?

You: Doesn't matter, I just want insurance.  I'm going to drive it every day.

Them: No, ours is a limited use policy.  What kind of car is it?

You: Doesn't matter, I want it insured.

Them:  Can't help you.

 

Again, you're either going to have to deal with a regular insurance company that will insure a daily driver hot rod, or some specialty insurance company that insures hot rods.

 

If you don't like that advice, then there's not much else to say. 

 

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I just looked at Grundy insurance, they do insure street rods, but the same mileage restrictions apply, in that the car is not to be used for every day transportation,  I believe that is where you're running into issues.  It states that the car must be used for hobby purposes only, and as soon as you tell them you're going to drive it a lot, they back away.

 

http://www.grundyworldwide.com/pdf/EligibilityReqs.pdf    

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i am having a tough day sorry for being curt i should have said fair market value insurance is driving me nuts maybe. my daily driver for the summer is a 1977 kz1000 and winter is a 2014 honda crosstour.  the policy i have has my premium for the honda at $705 per year and the 34 olds at $360 per year. no restrictions on miles but the olds market value is higher and would be harder to repair. i have Nationwide who is partnered with Hagerty but the way Hagerties policy works or reads limits my miles so i didn't go that way. it is time for me to renew and i noticed the difference in prices from the honda and the olds but when i try to get a strait answer from nationwide i get nonsense. no mater how i ask the question of how a company figures fair market value (any company) i end up with nonsense. other people have said they got cheated by this fair market value scam including a couple of people on this forum. i had hoped that there was a company out there that would work well for people like me who want honest insurance for driving without crazy restrictions. $360 per year for the olds vs $705 for the honda is a sure sign that something is not right.     

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I would suggest you need to call each of the insurers who specialize in collector car policies. You simply need to tell them that you have a modified antique car which you feel is valued at whatever number that you wish to insure it for, and that you drive it on tours and other pleasure driving, but have another daily driver and are seeking a quote. It sounds like the manner in which you have been asking for coverage has made it sound like you are using the car as a daily driver, which is why none of the traditional collector car insurance companies have so far wished to provide coverage for you. A traditional car insurance contract from a insurance company that does not specialize in collector cars will not do what you want in the manner in which you have been attempting to get coverage. 

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4 hours ago, benjamin j said:

. $360 per year for the olds vs $705 for the honda is a sure sign that something is not right.     

 

I don't see anything wrong with those rates, especially for the Honda.  Where are you located?

 

Cheers,

Grog

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14 hours ago, benjamin j said:

the policy i have has my premium for the honda at $705 per year and the 34 olds at $360 per year. no restrictions on miles but the olds market value is higher and would be harder to repair. 

Those look about right.  Same deductible?  Same limits?  Who is the listed driver for each?  Just you?  There are a million things that go into it, but it would make sense that the Honda is way more.

 

They are thinking you'll drive the '34 less (is it listed as secondary vs. the Honda), plus whether it's hard to repair or not doesn't come into play.  It's mostly about your record and the record of people with those same vehicles in your area.  Corvette rates are cheap because of who drives them.  Cadillacs are usually cheap also.  Late model Hondas and other common and popular cars like that are among the highest because they have tons of crash history.  Kias are usually high because the customer base that those dealers often cater to tend to treat their cars like junk.  A brand new Buick is often less than a 1999 Civic.  Think about who is driving it.  There are always exceptions, but this is generally true.

 

Since they don't have very many claims on '34's, the rate is low.  They have tons of claims on Honda's, so there are good predictive models for them.  Also, many would argue the 2014 Honda has a higher value than your '34.

Edited by 39BuickEight (see edit history)
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As far as hot rods go I have no problem with Hagerty.

Just a few pictures and we agree on a value.

I currently have agreed value on 8 vehicles with them and my rates are very reasonable. 

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2 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

Those look about right.  Same deductible?  Same limits?  Who is the listed driver for each?  Just you?  There are a million things that go into it, but it would make sense that the Honda is way more.

 

They are thinking you'll drive the '34 less (is it listed as secondary vs. the Honda), plus whether it's hard to repair or not doesn't come into play.  It's mostly about your record and the record of people with those same vehicles in your area.  Corvette rates are cheap because of who drives them.  Cadillacs are usually cheap also.  Late model Hondas and other common and popular cars like that are among the highest because they have tons of crash history.  Kias are usually high because the customer base that those dealers often cater to tend to treat their cars like junk.  A brand new Buick is often less than a 1999 Civic.  Think about who is driving it.  There are always exceptions, but this is generally true.

 

Since they don't have very many claims on '34's, the rate is low.  They have tons of claims on Honda's, so there are good predictive models for them.  Also, many would argue the 2014 Honda has a higher value than your '34.

I think you are 100% correct from what I have been learning. I tried looking at this from a common sense point of view instead of the Waco world of insurance point of view.

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I believe the company you are looking for is Chubb. I use them for my '62 Mercedes-Benz and they have no mileage restrictions and they will absolutely tell you the agreed upon amount you will settle for in the event of a total loss. You can't use the car for commercial purposes, race it, or use it as your daily driver but otherwise they are very relaxed and understand that we own these cars to (hopefully) enjoy them! You suggest the value and their underwriter will confirm it, then you will be issued a policy in that amount, clearly stated right on the front of the binder. In my case the underwriter felt I was valuing my car too low, and suggested a higher amount to stay ahead of the values, which turned out to be absolutely correct as the values for my specific model had jumped significantly without me realizing how far they had climbed so quickly. Chubb insures various things "of value" so you should be able to get your home and other things such as watches, art, and so on if you have them and so choose. I know they cater to the higher end of the market and I believe they have minimum values for the items they insure. Give their collector car division a call, it's quite small with only a few so you will get your answers promptly. http://www.chubbcollectorcar.com/

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Just tried them.

Your total annual premium is *  $1,092.80

State: CALIFORNIA  

Veh. # Year Make Model Agreed Value  
1 1934 Dodge Pickup $65,000.00
2 1934 Dodge Tow truck $60,000.00
3 1968 Plymouth GTX $20,000.00
4 1935 Dodge Humpback $45,000.00
Liability Coverage:   $300,000
Uninsured and Underinsured Motorist Amount Coverage:   $300,000
*Good Driver Discount is included  
Comprehensive:   Yes, $0 Deductible
Collision:   Yes, $0 Deductible

 

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14 hours ago, countrytravler said:

Just tried them.

Your total annual premium is *  $1,092.80

State: CALIFORNIA  

Veh. # Year Make Model Agreed Value  
1 1934 Dodge Pickup $65,000.00
2 1934 Dodge Tow truck $60,000.00
3 1968 Plymouth GTX $20,000.00
4 1935 Dodge Humpback $45,000.00
Liability Coverage:   $300,000
Uninsured and Underinsured Motorist Amount Coverage:   $300,000
*Good Driver Discount is included  
Comprehensive:   Yes, $0 Deductible
Collision:   Yes, $0 Deductible

 

 

Very reasonable I would say.

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I hate to say this, but you might as well buy the cheap.

I have stated before that insurance companies are out to make a profit and they will make every effort to low ball you or get out of paying out all together.

I have never made a claim on any auto insurance but the law dictates that I have to have it. It is a mandated evil.

I insure many cars and I don't pay much for insurance on the collection, but I hate that I HAVE to.

Pay to play shows up in all aspects of this disease we all suffer.

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3 hours ago, JACK M said:

I hate to say this, but you might as well buy the cheap.

I have stated before that insurance companies are out to make a profit and they will make every effort to low ball you or get out of paying out all together.

I have never made a claim on any auto insurance but the law dictates that I have to have it. It is a mandated evil.

I insure many cars and I don't pay much for insurance on the collection, but I hate that I HAVE to.

Pay to play shows up in all aspects of this disease we all suffer.

I respect your opinion and it has some merit, but in my own experience, as someone who has filed claims in the past, I will say that the "everyday" companies are a nightmare when it comes time to pay out, but the specialized guys tend to not play around, it's the reason you choose them and as you said, "pay to play."  

Edited by MarrsCars (see edit history)
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Here is the scoop. Coming from Grundy. They do not care how you drive your car. They know with the average person that his car is going to be tip top shape, lock in a well-secured area, have GPS tracking. My broker said they can not monitor how you drive your car and how often and where. As for value, They will pay the quoted value for your car say in a tbone accident. They pay you and go after the other ins company that was involved in the accident. I have a friend that drives a 36 Ford truck on a daily basis. Hase 4 vehicles at 100,000 and the prem is 500.00 a year. Wades Truck (1).JPGWades Truck (2).jpgWades Truck (3).jpgWades Truck (4).jpgWades Truck (5).jpgWades Truck (7).jpgWades Truck (8).jpg

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We sell a lot of parts to repair shops that repair old classic cars. The ins company pays us direct and sometimes the repair shops pay for our parts. Never an issue on what the parts cost. The antique ins company are the best to deal with when it come to parts.

We hauled these cars in for repair and they were totaled. One was Grundy and the other was AAA. They paid 18,000 on the Chev, it was under construction and a daily driver. The VW was paid 7500 from AAA.1968 Chec (6).jpg20160305_121011.jpg

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I wonder if all of this will be affected if some states that are currently testing the pay for mileage tax as opposed to or more likely in addition to the current gas tax.  I know CA is testing how to track mileage along with 5 or 6 other states. If they figure it out can the ins companies be far behind?  

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5 hours ago, padgett said:

You do not have to have insurance to own collector cars, only if you want to drive on public roads.

 

And, at least the state I'm in, you only need liability insurance and to pay into the uninsured motorist pool. Basically the state doesn't care what your own repair costs are, only that you have some minimum to cover the injuries and damage you cause to others. The value of your car only comes into play with comprehensive coverage (stuff to cover acts of nature, the other guy's insurance not being enough to cover your injuries and car's damage, etc.). Comprehensive coverage is only an agreement between you and your insurance company, state has nothing to do with that.

 

4 hours ago, SC38DLS said:

I wonder if all of this will be affected if some states that are currently testing the pay for mileage tax as opposed to or more likely in addition to the current gas tax.  I know CA is testing how to track mileage along with 5 or 6 other states. If they figure it out can the ins companies be far behind?  

 

At least one insurance company I know about will give you a discount if you allow a GPS device plugged into your ODB plug that will report your driving to them. It lets them see how hard you typically accelerate and brake as well as where you usually drive so they can get a better idea of the risk you pose to them. So I think they are ahead of the states on this.

 

4 hours ago, countrytravler said:

I have not heard of the millage tax here in CA. 

 

There was a mailer from the DMV recently, I think in a registration renewal mailing, where they mentioned a pilot program you could volunteer for. From the state's point of view the matter is simple: Gas taxes haven't been raised in years (and there is no political will to do that) and cars are getting better mileage. And there are now a measurable number of cars on the road that don't use gasoline at all so pay no road taxes. Net result: Even though the miles driven have gone up the money to fix roads, etc. has gone down and the highways are in horrible condition because of that. If they can get people to go along with a tax based on mileage rather than gas sold at least the money collected will go up, or down, roughly in proportion to the wear and tear on the highways.

 

Unfortunately, other than relying on the honesty of everyone to properly record and report their miles driven, the only way to really track mileage seems to be with fairly intrusive GPS tracking and/or monitoring of the OBD system. Net result is they can then know more about you and your driving habits than you might like to share.

 

 

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Funny how one person says that Grundy has restrictions on mileage and our broker from Grundy says no issues because basically, you're going to lie about your mileage like a truck driver with a log book.LOL! He said that to me because I was a truck driver. They have no way to monitor the miles we drive. That is why big trucks are being pushed for electronic log books.

Edited by countrytravler (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, countrytravler said:

I just checked my paperwork for my plates here in CA. No mention of a pilot program for millage. They are working on some for big trucks that will only work on trucks with electronics.  Not on mechanical trucks.

 

Maybe it was a separate mailer. Or maybe they only stuffed the envelopes with that if you had a vehicle they assume uses little gas (I have a Prius). But they do have a bit about it on the CalTrans web site. They are calling it "Road Charge"

 

2 hours ago, JACK M said:

I don't think we are discussing cars that have OBD here.

 

Probably not, but the discussion came around to mileage based issues.

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"give you a discount if you allow a GPS device plugged into your ODB plug "

Heard about something like that for parents to put in kids cars.

 

Most of my cars are pre-ODB-II and would take some fiddling.

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