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Insurance is driving me nuts.


benjamin j
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I like to drive my cars way more than 3,000 miles per year. I take mine on trips that may be 2,000 miles round trip. So Hagerty does not work for me. I chose to use my insurance company that I have my other cars and homeowners policy with. My motorcycles are with a separate company. I do not get a straight answer when I ask about how much my 1934 or 1950 car is covered for.  They tell me it is going to be determined by how much it would cost to buy another one just like mine. Of course that sounds crazy to me and I have trust issues with insurance companies. I was cheated by an insurance company years ago and other people I know of have also been cheated. So what are we supposed to do if we want to drive more than 3,000 miles per year.

 

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What kind of car do you want to insure, and where do you live?  I'm with you in that I would not trust a "normal" auto insurance company to make good on a claim on a collector vehicle.  If I were you, I'd call Hagerty (I have my cars insured with them) and discuss with them the number of miles that you plan to drive every year.  I have found them to quite flexible, and when I told them I planned to go on the Hot Rod Power Tour two years ago, they had no problem with it.  There are other collector car insurance companies out there that have good reputations, and Grundy is one that comes to (what's left of) my mind.  Check your latest issue of Hemmings for the other collector car insurers.

 

Good luck,

Grog

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Check with Heacock. They insure for agreed value and I believe you can choose a mileage per year limit that suits your driving style. Insuring a collector car for anything other than agreed value is a ticking trouble bomb..............Bob

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5 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

 Insuring a collector car for anything other than agreed value is a ticking trouble bomb..............Bob

 

Bob's advice is extremely important for whatever insurance company or policy you choose....AGREED VALUE.

 

Reminds me of an article from years ago that I read in Old Cars magazine.  A gent who had a propane business collected many excellent 50's and 60's cars.  Many were used for parades in his hometown.  Had a fancy for muscle car convertibles.  He stored them in I believe 3 different buildings.  One building had propane delivery trucks on ones side and a good portion of his collector cars on the other.  A short in one of the trucks started a devastating fire that destroyed the cars, too.

 

Unfortunately he had "STANDARD VALUE" and lost a bundle of money.  He had the class and concern of all of us in the hobby by doing the article so none of us follow his scenario.

 

Peter J.

 

 

Edited by Peter J.Heizmann (see edit history)
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Do not use a standard insurance company for your classics, their "agreed value policies" are a full load of c$@p! I had that kind of policy on one of my classics and was involved in a wreck where the other driver was 100% at fault. His insurance company, progressive, offered pennies on the dollar for what I had into my car. They couldn't find a comparable car to justify the amount of my "agreed value" policy and suggested I total the car out for the value that State Farm "agreed" to with the agreed value policy that I set up on that car with a value that we mutually agreed to in the event of a total loss.

 

I called my agent up and asked for a check for the full agreed value of the car since it was deemed a total loss. I was informed that they would be sending an adjuster out to determine the value of the car and they'd gladly write me a check for what he thought it was worth. We went around and around about the point of an "agreed value policy" 

 

Long story short, I took it in the rear from progressive on the car value and then returned the favor on the injury caim. I talked with guys in the club and researched collector car insurance companies. Hagerty was 2.5 times what Grundy wanted for the identical coverage. I kicked the "good neighbor" to the curb and switched to Grundy for their better service, and I pay them 1/3 what I was giving to State Farm. 

 

Grundy is very flexible about driving the cars and only asks that you don't drive it to work every day of the week. None of mine are modified so that might make a difference. The downside is that you have to park it in a garage every night. 

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7 hours ago, benjamin j said:

I like to drive my cars way more than 3,000 miles per year. I take mine on trips that may be 2,000 miles round trip. So Hagerty does not work for me. ...

 

Might Hagerty have a way to take care of your higher-mileage needs?

Pay extra to allow more miles?

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The major carriers just use the agreed value to base the rates at the time of application.  They settle at actual cash value.  If you tell them you want $50,000 insurance on what turns out to be a $30,000 car, you are only cheating yourself.  I know.  I work for one.

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9 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

The major carriers just use the agreed value to base the rates at the time of application.  They settle at actual cash value.  If you tell them you want $50,000 insurance on what turns out to be a $30,000 car, you are only cheating yourself.  I know.  I work for one.

 

How about expanding on that statement. Do you work for a major "collector car" insurer?................Bob

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I have been talking with several insurance companies. I would be happy with an appraised amount done by a qualified appraiser but they don’t want to do that. They will send out an appraiser after an accident so why not do it first? Also if I am paying the premium for $50.000 just to be sure that $45.000 worth of damage gets covered then that’s what we agreed to and a court should make the insurance company hold to that. It is simple contract law. I have not contacted Grundy yet but they are next on my list. I was shooting for a package deal for home and auto and riders on a couple of other things. Thanks guys for confirming some of my thoughts.

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I'm not sure why you're wasting time and money with appraisers and stuff like that. Whenever I've insured an old car for an agreed value, they've asked for a few photos and the amount for which I'd like it insured. Now, I'm sure that if I told them I wanted a $250,000 policy on my '29 Cadillac, they'd put on the brakes, but they didn't blink when I told them I wanted a $45,000 policy on my last '41 Cadillac 60 Special. No appraisal required--they have their own underwriters who know about what a car should be worth and as long as you're within that range, you'll be fine. Or are you trying to get a big policy on something not easily insured and valued, like a rat rod? Things like that can be very problematic to insure.

 

I've had one claim with Hagerty and they paid it instantly without any fuss or wrangling. In fact, I called in a favor and took it to a well-known, high-end shop that is booked out two years and had it done there because I needed it fixed in a hurry. I bet the estimate was 50% more than it would have been elsewhere for that reason. Paid in full, no questions asked.

 

I should note that you won't get one of the old car insurers to give you a package deal and insure your house. That might be where you're running into trouble. They do old cars and old cars only. I think it's a mistake to try to put all your stuff under one umbrella--let the experts in each area be the experts. Don't force Nationwide to figure out how to properly insure an antique car and don't ask Grundy how to insure your house.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you're asking them to do things they can't do and getting frustrated by it. Put your collector cars under an agreed value policy with an antique car insurance specialist, and put the rest with a main line carrier. Insurance law is pretty well established--they'll do exactly what the contract (policy) says, nothing more, nothing less. Read it carefully and make sure you understand it before you sign it, and that should avoid any issues with "cheating" in the future.

 

Good luck!

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1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

they have their own underwriters who know about what a car should be worth

 

My cars are insured for the very high end of "book value". When I signed up the lady taking the info said she would have to have their underwriter give the ok before they wrote the policy...............Bob

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3 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

 

How about expanding on that statement. Do you work for a major "collector car" insurer?................Bob

No, I work for a major general insurer, a company like Allstate, State Farm, Progressive, etc.  You tell them how much you think your vehicle is worth so they can rate the policy.  If they find it's worth that when a claim happens, you get that.  If it's not, you don't.  You always get what the vehicle is worth at the time of the claim, regardless of what you insure it for.  If you have a vehicle that gains and loses value, you need to contact them to change that so your rates are somewhat based on the actual value.  These companies are not all that good at valuing, so they leave it up the customer to tell them how much insurance they want.  The underwriters at these carriers are not as trained and educated on collector cars as the specialty companies, so they don't insure them as accurate to-value.  Hagerty and the like are experts and they also pay what you insure it for, whether it goes up, down, or sideways in value over the life of the policy.

 

There may be exceptions and endorsement that can change this, but this is generally how it works.  The big companies sell a general use policy, so that's what it's geared towards handling.  As you can imagine, collector cars and daily use cars don't really fall into the same category as far as risk goes.  That's why specialty carriers are so useful.  They effectively insure cars that are usually no longer depreciating and the policy language and loss settlement clauses reflect that.  Large company policies are meant to insure depreciating assets. 

 

Specialty company-you insured it for $50k, you get $50k

Regular company-you insured it for 50k, you might get $50k unless it can be proven to be worth less, then you get that

 

I have all my regular insurance through my employer, and my 1939 Buick through Hagerty.

Edited by 39BuickEight (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, benjamin j said:

I have been talking with several insurance companies. I would be happy with an appraised amount done by a qualified appraiser but they don’t want to do that. They will send out an appraiser after an accident so why not do it first? Also if I am paying the premium for $50.000 just to be sure that $45.000 worth of damage gets covered then that’s what we agreed to and a court should make the insurance company hold to that. It is simple contract law. I have not contacted Grundy yet but they are next on my list. I was shooting for a package deal for home and auto and riders on a couple of other things. Thanks guys for confirming some of my thoughts.

They will uphold the contract, but the loss settlement in the contract of most major carrier says the agreed upon insured value or actual market value, whichever is less.  Courts aren't changing the wording of the contract.  In this case you would have bought the wrong policy if that was your intent.  It's all how the policy is worded. 

 

What most consider proper collector car insurance companies are specialty companies just for that, and do not insured everyday vehicle or real property (houses, garages, etc).

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Just got off the phone with Grundy and no they will not insure my cars on their collector car insurance.  The reason is that I want to be able to drive them whenever and however far I chose. Then I asked to have a qualified appraiser set the value and get their insurance for muscle car and or other types of moderate use vehicles. No they don’t want a qualified appraiser setting the value they want one of their less qualified people to set the value. The world just keeps getting dumber every day.  

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Ben, can you show us the cars you're trying to insure? There has to be more to it than just how much you drive. For example, I have many cars insured through Hagerty, but they won't touch my 1993 Ford Mustang 5.0 even though it'll be an AACA antique in two years and I'm 46, not 23. Your high mileage requests might be setting off red flags that you're planning on driving this car as a daily driver, rather than sparingly. Perhaps find an insurance carrier that doesn't do mileage limits and keep your mouth shut about how much you intend on driving it. How will they know if you drive it 200 miles or 2000 miles on a road trip? I have to believe there's something else going on here that's not clear, because last year's winner of our "long distance driver" award drove his 1941 Cadillac convertible more than 13,000 miles and he's got antique car insurance on it. He'll probably drive another 8000-9000 miles this year. He doesn't have a trailer.

 

Or bite the bullet and let State Farm or one of the other mainline companies insure it as a regular car. Maybe there's no way to have it both ways?

 

There's something else you're not telling us about your situation or something about your cars is setting off a red flag with these companies. It shouldn't be this challenging to get old car insurance.

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You have not told us what cars you want to insure and what other cars you own.

 

I started to fill out an online applications for Hagerty for my 1991 S10 Blazer 4 door 2 wheel drive with 42K on it. I am retired, over 65, have never had an accident claim in over 50 years of driving, last traffic ticket was 1974 but they would not insure me because my newest vehicle is a 2002. They want you to have a  "new" car to prove that you are not going to use your collector car on a daily basis.

 

Well, I am not going to buy a newer car just to get their insurance. As a matter of fact I am looking at replacing the 2002 car with an OLDER car that is easier for me to work on. And they make a big point that one of their employees uses his Model "A" Ford as a daily driver on a year round basis  ....... I guess it just depends who you know, but I feel your frustration. I am looking for a Model "A" Ford for daily use (yes, I've driven one in snow, sllush and ice - it's not bad). and guess I will just have to insure it with one of the big non-collector companies.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

I have many cars insured through Hagerty, but they won't touch my 1993 Ford Mustang 5.0 even though it'll be an AACA antique in two years and I'm 46, not 23.

 

Matt,

 

Don't feel bad, Hagerty will not insure my 36, 35, 31 or 29 year old Volkswagens and I'm 56 years old with a clean driving record. They could care less that the 36 year old is an AACA Repeat Senior Grand National car or the 29 year old is an AACA HPOF Original with 38K miles. I have found that Haggerty is very selective in what they will insure (Antique & Classic to 1979 which has not changed in a number of years) which is there prerogative. That works great for people that have the right year, make/model vehicle. There are other companies out there with prices and customer service just as good as Hagerty who are not as selective and will insure some vehicles less than 25 years old (ie Modern Classics). The company I have all my Antique Cars with is called Classic Collectors . They offer agreed upon value policies and 3 mile plans (1,200/6,000/Unlimited miles per year). Exotic & Kits are less miles. They also offer optional "Drive to Work" coverage for a set number of days per policy period. They insure a variety of vehicles including Antiques (25 years and older) and Modern Classics (15-24 years) among others. BTW, I do not work for this Insurance Company I am just a very satisfied customer.

 

You might explore another company when it comes to insurance for your 1993 Mustang unless you really want Hagerty. If so, you may have a much longer wait than two years. Best of Luck.

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Matt,

 

I have my 1993 Mustang 5.0 insured with Hagerty.  I don't know when your request for insurance was refused, but Hagerty agreed to insure my Mustang 5.0 within the past 10 months.  You might try to talk to them again about  your Mustang.

 

Good luck,

Grog

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It could be that Hagerty eligibility varies by state. I live in Florida and currently have my 2009 Mustang GT California Special insured by Hagerty. I get to drive it to work twice a month, as well as other casual driving, in addition to show and club activities. Annual mileage is limited to 3000 miles. I am required to have a secured garage and the car is insured with an agreed value policy.

 

Rates for this car are higher than I paid for my 1966 Mustang, but are still less than half I was paying through State Farm.

 

 

Kevin

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Nice car but perhaps looking for "Antique Auto" insurance is searching for the wrong thing.  What are other street-rod owners doing for insurance?  I believe most of the major specialty insurance companies also offer coverage packages for modified vehicles as well.  We saw a zillion neat rods on the highways in the past several weeks.  Passed by Ocean City and there were hundreds of then on the roads and being trailered.  Just this past week were near Smithfield Va and saw a lot of neat cars being driven from the big show there.   They surely can't all be having the same difficulties?  

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We had 15 cars insured through Grundy with no restrictions. Just have a normal car that is insured. They know that you're not going to drive these cars every day. They even insure a car that is under restoration. They ask what it's worth, we tell them and no questions ask. We had 30s stock and street rods to 60 muscles car insured. wonder if were getting the full storey.

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My 1947 Chevrolet Sedan Delivery is registered in the State of Florida as a "Street Rod" and has been insured by Hagerty for the past ten years.  At the other end of the spectrum (car-wise), my 1938 Chevrolet bone stock survivor is also insured by Hagerty as are my stock Crosleys.

 

Like other participants on this thread, I can't understand why the Original Poster is having trouble insuring his nice looking hot rod.  There must be something else going on here that I fail to understand.

 

Puzzled, I am,

Grog

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2 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

The more the merrier, you cant be driving them all at once, so in terms of risk, that's great for the carrier.  People with the responsibility and financial wherewithal to own 15 cars are also great to do business with.  Low risk.

 

Only 2 were road worthy. 13 was under construction.We only have 3 and everything stayed the same except for the premium.

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So this was never about not being able to get insurance. this was only about getting an insurance company to put in writing what $$$$ they would agree to. I've not had one company that had a problem taking my money. they want me to buy regular car insurance because I drive whenever and however many miles I want which is fine. all I wanted was to come to an agreement on value before there is a problem.

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19 minutes ago, benjamin j said:

So this was never about not being able to get insurance. this was only about getting an insurance company to put in writing what $$$$ they would agree to. I've not had one company that had a problem taking my money. they want me to buy regular car insurance because I drive whenever and however many miles I want which is fine. all I wanted was to come to an agreement on value before there is a problem.

 

Panel was insured for 45,000 pickup for 65,000 They just wanted pictures. 25.000 for the 68 GTX that we are waiting on to restore.

20140711_084043.jpg

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After seeing a picture of the car in question, I can understand why you're having problems with the insurance companies.

 

First of all, they insure collector cars and don't expect them to be driven as much as newer cars.  You can't go to them with a hot rod (which is really just that, it's no longer a "collector" car), and expect them to give you inexpensive insurance to drive anytime and anywhere you desire.

 

I believe you're going to have to find an insurance company that specializes in hot rods, or a regular insurance company that insures it as a regular driver.  The question of value will be a tough one, as it's very difficult to get comparable values on cars that are built to one person's taste. 

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3 minutes ago, trimacar said:

After seeing a picture of the car in question, I can understand why you're having problems with the insurance companies.

 

First of all, they insure collector cars and don't expect them to be driven as much as newer cars.  You can't go to them with a hot rod (which is really just that, it's no longer a "collector" car), and expect them to give you inexpensive insurance to drive anytime and anywhere you desire.

 

I believe you're going to have to find an insurance company that specializes in hot rods, or a regular insurance company that insures it as a regular driver.  The question of value will be a tough one, as it's very difficult to get comparable values on cars that are built to one person's taste. 

do you not know how to read?????

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