Jump to content

Water Pump Rebuild Question/Finished OK


ArticiferTom
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hello all .  While working on my '31  Graham w/ U engine's coolant system I was going to repack gland nut , of water pump and notice front bearing was very ,verrry worn . So pulled pump and got bushing ,oil-lite bronze flanged and had finished machine to shaft size . Question is the partial old bushing show no hole to the oil journal around middle of bushing , should there be ?  Or will oil soak thought bearing . And was there wick inside ? Inside bearing was only 2/1000 over so leaving it go . Grease must have kept it good .

20160622_212601.jpg20160622_212824.jpg

Edited by ArticiferTom
update (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would think that if there is a lube fitting, as it appears, that there should be a hole in the bushing to allow grease into the bearing area. The elongated hole near center indicated to me that there may have been an opening there. If that's a belt driven pump, it appears that the belt may have been kept too tight, maybe to prevent slippage, and that may have caused the excessive wear.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah , What looks like a hole on pic is not . It is where center area of bushing collapsed in to journal as it thinned . This the front bearing only receives oil and the bushing is impregnated with 30 wt oil Oil-Lite . The rear bushing that is exactly the same type as two hole but receive grease to keep coolant out and then has packed gland nut to keep grease and coolant in . Plus it looks like bushing was shellac-ed or permatex-ed in to keep oil from running out around cast . Had to scrape off to get new bushing to start in .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is the boss that extends out of the top of the bushing casting for? It also looks as if there is a groove around the inside center for grease distribution. Would it be possible or practical to add a grease fitting for positive lube?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 That is the dip hole you fill with oil .Limited access when pulley mounts back over . Research on net seems to say there was no hole, the oil will wick through the porous bearing . These bearings Oil-lite and Oil-lite plus were developed by Chrysler in 1930 and 1933 respectively. Special cares must be taken when machining to prevent sealing the pores .The bushing comes vacuum impregnated with 30 wt . I used permatex gasket A on the cast to bush mating surface . Applied on cast surface beyond journal and on bush ahead of journal ,to prevent it sealing in that area . But stopping oil loss between those surfaces . Did not have" beyond part" scraped clean enough and pressing bush in resulted in constricting area . Had to use dowel and sand paper to clear for shaft . Some what of a no-no but better than reaming ,which is not recommended . By applying air to dip hole was able to see oil pushing out of bearing , also any cooling while sizing should be done in oil . Refer to Wik-apeda and Prac Mach. forum . I'll post more pic with assembly .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it is an Oilite bush, it should NOT have any holes in it. The whole point of an Oilite is that it is about 40% porous (it is sintered bronze) and impregnated with oil. It is important when cutting and reaming that you use very sharp tools, so the pores are not smeared and closed, which would prevent oiling the shaft. When the Oilite bush gets hot by friction, the bush surface becomes oily. If is it not Oilite, but just brass or bronze, then you will need a wee hole.

 

The bushing should be OILED, not greased. The inner bush should probably also be Oilite and not have any holes and not have a grease fitting. It should have an oil hole to replenish the reservoir. 500 mile intervals are suggested in my manual. There is a thrust washer, perhaps something like Bakelite, between the bush - housing surface and the impeller. I think the end float should be no more than something like 0.002".

 

Oilite bushes are impregnated with an 80 or 90 weight oil. The circumferential space behind the bush is the oil reservoir from which the bush is recharged when it uses oil.

 

NOTE that there are differing metals in here - cast iron or steel (housing, impeller), better steel (shaft, pins) and bronze (the bush). It is vital that you use a good anticorrosive in your coolant.

 

Some personal negative experience. My Dodge 8 sat for a few years while I was ill. When I attempted to restart it about 18 months ago, the water pump was stuck. I freed it using the brute force method (I heard the crunch as the rust let go and gouged the bush). The shaft was now scored and water came out of the oil hole. It turned out the inner bush was just brass with a wee hole so the water just came out (that is probably why someone has jerried up a grease fitting on your pump, Tom). I finished up turning a new bush for both ends and making a new shaft.

 

P.S. The early Dodge 8 water pump had a wee hole in the pulley through which to oil the front bush. It was in front of the belt. Later, the oil hole was moved back so it could be oiled behind the pulley.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Spinneyhill (see edit history)
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes  Graham, I should have ask you first . The oil-lite site says the plain bearing is 30 wt ,but others including mineral and food grade are available .

    As far as grease zerk  that is OEM and the lube chart supports . I think they where looking to get grease to keep water out more than anything . Must remember this technology was only a year old, and in next model, changed to type' plus' bearing . I original was going to add top hole, figuring at least at lube schedule it would get a good few drops and remainder would wick in . The two grease holes in rear bushing are top and bottom . Maybe this would have prevented yours from freezing because the grease would have kept coolant out of bearing and allow oillite self lube bush, to do its job . Since I believe the rear both bearing are original, and as the pic show ,out preformed the oil only bushing .

                                   thanks all  Tom

  PS. What is thought on soaking gland nut with graphite packing, in oil to soften a little ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just thinking about my 1939 Studebaker, the steering box has a "grease nipple" on it. But it is not: it has no ball etc. It is an oil nipple. I wonder...? Water doesn't come through my Oilite bearing in the non-pressurized system.

 

If you use graphite, you MUST keep it lubricated. Probably a grease would be better than oil - captures less dust and doesn't dry out as fast. If the graphite dries out, you will promote fairly rapid rust of the shaft. Years ago I read about a 1929 or '30 Studebaker Commander 8 (?) in the Great American Race; the only thing they found that worked was a lead impregnated packing. Lead would be far preferable to graphite for minimising the possibility of galvanic corrosion.

 

My own experience is with braided square PTFE packing rope. It works well. Remember to add lengths one at a time that only go around the shaft once. Mine took three lengths with a little grease.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Further to Spinney's comment on OIL nipple in steering box, when these cars were new they had turn-handle and push-type grease and oil dispensers.  NEVER use a lever-handle grease gun which supplies 'way too much pressure.  1920s and later cars with no-check-ball zerks were for OIL, not grease, filled with a push-type (often pistol-grip) dispensing tool.  Cadillac flathead V8 water pumps with zerks will have their seals compromised if you use a lever type grease gun for water pump grease--ask me how I know.... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks  All , just checked manual says . Fluid Gear Lubricant rear and Engine Oil front . The same lube is listed for all steering and links so to me it is tube grease . However I did put marine grade same as son uses on boat . Have replacement bushing installed and waiting to get radiator flushed better before assembly this weekend .

UF10 Lube .pdf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks all . Finished and tested this rebuild today . Thumbs up .

   Used Oilite FB 1014-14 for the bushing ,had to machine open to shaft dia. plus 1/1000th ,face off a 1/16th for end play ,cut overall down . Then screwed up by not having opening in cast ,back half cleaned of adhesive enough . Collapsed egged, a little on pressing in with gasket cement as adhesive .Permatex A. Sanded open and tried ,bushing ran hot plus 220* F, it's max. See attached IR scan ,this view does not show it best ,did not save other . But after view shows the re-fix improvement . Oil in journal also leaked ,so pulled pump again and bushing . Reamed bushing on lathe to plus 2/1000ths all . Cleaned casting so good ,bushing now fell in so ,cement with bearing seat compound . Installed on truck , tighten up and backed off a little on gland . Works great no leaks ,oil journal holds , temp. below max. see second scan .

  PS. more info on trouble had with radiator blockage on this system, in Technical threads , under heading, How to use is this Zoo tool .

IR_0026.jpgIR_0027.jpg

Edited by ArticiferTom
spelling/size correction (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...