DAVID RALPH

Help with 64 Rambler

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My son purchased a 1964 Rambler American with the 196 OHV engine.  This is a nice little car with 27,000 miles on it.  The problem is the car will not stay running.  Someone had put new plugs, wires and coil on this car before he got it.  The fuel pump was bypassed and a electric pump was added.  Ran good for a while, but had a "stumble" during idle.  Now will not stay running.  My question is what is the best way to proceed to trouble shoot this problem.

 

Dave

Edited by DAVID RALPH (see edit history)

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Could be that if the fuel pump was not made for ethanol, it could be disintegrating the diaphragm. I would set up a gravity feed on the fuel line with a gas can as a tank and bi-pass the fuel pump to see if that clears up things.

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2 hours ago, keiser31 said:

Could be that if the fuel pump was not made for ethanol, it could be disintegrating the diaphragm. I would set up a gravity feed on the fuel line with a gas can as a tank and bi-pass the fuel pump to see if that clears up things.

Keiser, will that work better than what they've already done, bypassing the mechanical fuel pump and installing an electrical one?

 

David,

From the symptoms you've described, I agree with keiser 31 that the trouble most likely lies with the fuel system.  You said that the car ran fine for a while, but "Now will not stay running".  This sounds like contaminated fuel to me.  Your 52 year old car with only 27,000 miles has obviously done a lot of sitting around, and cars that sit around usually wind up with fuel tank/fuel line deterioration which causes fuel contamination.  Contaminated fuel will usually run O.K. initially; however, as the engine continues to run, particles of rust etc. enter the carburetor bowl and eventually clog the carburetor idle circuit, among other things.  If the car won't idle, but will run if you rev it up, it could be that your idle circuits are plugged up.  Or, since it's a machine it could be something else,:o but I'd look at the carb and fuel system first.:D

 

Just my opinion,

Grog

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How long ago was the electric fuel pump added? I agree with Grog about the fuel system possibly being plugged.

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I would suggest first changing the fuel filter.

 

If it will then stay running, buy a couple more for the glove box WITH the necessary tools to change it.

 

If it still doesn't stay running, then look at the entire fuel delivery system, beginning at the tank.

 

Why start at the tank? Because if the tank is full of rust/grime/varnish cleaning the carb is a waste of time, as the garbage in the tank will move forward. Hopefully, the fuel filter stopped the garbage and protected the carburetor.

 

Jon.

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13 hours ago, carbking said:

I would suggest first changing the fuel filter.

 

If it will then stay running, buy a couple more for the glove box WITH the necessary tools to change it.

 

If it still doesn't stay running, then look at the entire fuel delivery system, beginning at the tank.

 

Why start at the tank? Because if the tank is full of rust/grime/varnish cleaning the carb is a waste of time, as the garbage in the tank will move forward. Hopefully, the fuel filter stopped the garbage and protected the carburetor.

 

Jon.

 

^^^This.  When was the carb last rebuilt?  Are you sure there isn't crud in the tank that is being sucked up against the inlet sock?  Have you put a fuel pressure gauge on the carb to see what happens to fuel pressure when the car stops running?

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+1 Joe. The first step (after smelling the gas in the tank) for me would be to add a fuel pressure gauge (suspect should be 3-5 psi and not the 30-50 for a FI system) and see what is happening. Next when you look in the throat and work the accelerator do you see the jets of fuel from the accelerator pump ? This tells you if gas is in the carb (and the pump works)

 

If all of that is ok then I'd pour about 1/2 oz of gas in the carb and see if it runs then stops. If so the liquid in the carb is not gas.

 

These are just basics and easy to do. Guess I am bothered by the number of people trying to work on cars who do not appear to know diagnostics and triage. Ignorance is curable.

 

ps that description sounds like a carb getting progressively clogged (idle passages are the smallest and generally go first). Good idle but bad performance is more a fuel supply problem.

Edited by padgett (see edit history)

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Check for spark

Check for compression

Check for fuel

 

Not necessarily in that order but start with the basics.

 

I had a car that was doing something similar to that but was running rich until it died, turned out to be a totally clogged air filter. It was one of those tiny custom jobs.

 

Best fuel starving problem test is a boat tank.

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How about the choke.  It was real common for those bi-metallic spring actuated chokes to stay closed.  Especially as the weather started warming up, I help many motorist by manually opening the choke.  By these day carbs are about as common as a rotary phone.

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7 hours ago, emjay said:

How about the choke.  It was real common for those bi-metallic spring actuated chokes to stay closed.  Especially as the weather started warming up, I help many motorist by manually opening the choke.  By these day carbs are about as common as a rotary phone.

 

Hey - I still use a rotary phone. It still works when the power goes off!

 

Jon.

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err Jon - not sure what you mean but my desk phone (landline) is powered by the phone line.

 

Now the real question is whether the bimetal is on the carb or in the manifold and does it connect to 12v ? Or does it have a knob on the dash that says "choke".

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On 6/14/2016 at 11:19 AM, JACK M said:

Check for spark

Check for compression

Check for fuel

 

Not necessarily in that order but start with the basics.

 

I had a car that was doing something similar to that but was running rich until it died, turned out to be a totally clogged air filter. It was one of those tiny custom jobs.

 

Best fuel starving problem test is a boat tank.

I was just out of high school playing softball when these two pretty girls broke down at the field. Of course a whole bunch of guys circled around to "help" One guy just took the windshield wash tank out of the car and siphoned some gas out of the gas tank into the windshield wash tank, hooked it up to the carb and away they went.

 I also had a buddy whose fuel pump went out on his plow truck so until he could do the repairs [that spring I think] he ran that way using a boat tank. 

Edited by DAVES89 (see edit history)
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Thanks everyone for the help.  The fuel tank was sent out to a shop that cleans and coats the interior and the fuel filter looks clean.

I will try a few other things till I get it worked out.  

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5 minutes ago, DAVID RALPH said:

Thanks everyone for the help.  The fuel tank was sent out to a shop that cleans and coats the interior and the fuel filter looks clean.

I will try a few other things till I get it worked out.  

 

But what did the sock on the end of the fuel pickup inside the tank look like?  What's the condition of the rubber hoses from the tank to the hard line on the frame and from the hard line to the fuel pump on the engine?  Small cracks can cause the pump to suck air instead of gas.

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OK, tank probably needs cleaning but what was the fuel line pressure at the carb ? 3-5 psi ?

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I have had two ramblers . 1962 1963.  these cars have trouble with rust forming in gas tank. put a clear fuel filter between tank and pump. Watch to see how clear the gas is. I had to have my tank cleaned and recoated . runs fine now. unhook gas line from carb. and see if pump is putting out any gas, there should be a good flow with a electric fuel pump.  hope this helps.

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On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 11:30 AM, joe_padavano said:

 

But what did the sock on the end of the fuel pickup inside the tank look like?  What's the condition of the rubber hoses from the tank to the hard line on the frame and from the hard line to the fuel pump on the engine?  Small cracks can cause the pump to suck air instead of gas.

 

I was going to suggest he rubber hose from the tank to the main line also, I had a similar problem and a crack in the hose was the problem

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worked at a rambler  dealer in 1969. i would also suggest you do a compression test as suggested earlier. although it probably wouldn't cause this problem, we did a lot of valve jobs on the ohv 6. my personal best time for removing the head was 25 minutes. lol good luck with your car.. also, make sure you keep that front suspension well greased too.

 

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Can someone please tell me exactly where the fuel filter is located on my 1966 rambler American? It has the 232 inline six. I’ve checked the screen that is located on the left side of the carter carburetor but not sure if there is another fuel filter on the car. I feel really stupid asking this question but my American is doing the same thing, runs great but kinda bogs when I give it a quick shot of fuel. It also was sitting in a barn for 6 years and I want to first start with the fuel filter if there is another other then the one on the carburetor 

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A prior owner could have installed one anywhere along the fuel line. Follow the fuel line from the carburetor back to the gas tank and if there is one you will see it. 

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David Ralph,

 

Lots of good advice to follow. I've owned 3 Ramblers. Loved them all. Good engines, but you will have to do a valve job at about 75K miles. Not a problem for now, though (and easy to do). 

 

Based on my own experience,  I would:

  • Run a separate gas supply to the carb. That will verify whether your fuel source is dirty.
  • Check the bi-metallic spring to see if your choke is operating properly. That was a continuing problem for me. If it's sticking, manually open it so you are not trying to idle with a full choke.

Let us know what happens. You have a lot of interested people waiting for results.

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and after you spend a couple grand replacing the entire fuel system, and having the same problem, spend another 15 minutes, and correct that vacuume leak.

 

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