1960 MGA Restoration

[hursst]

I've only restored one car so far, a 1974 Camaro Z28, from 2001-2010 and it was very difficult and expensive, but it came out very nicely.  Won a First Junior award with it in 2013.  I was fortunate enough to recently double my garage space, as I've wanted to restore another car.  I like just about all cars, but I ended up choosing a 1960 MG MGA for various reasons.  It's in rough but reasonable condition and had one owner until 2008 or so, then 2 owners who were just flippers and never titled the car, so technically, I'm the second owner.  The goal is to do a complete frame-off high-level restoration making the car as original/authentic as possible and to do as much as possible myself.  I'll be learning to weld and probably to do some paint and bodywork, but I'll go to a machine shop for the engine.

 

I picked it up in North Carolina yesterday and I don't want to waste any time in getting started.  Had it titled today and started the restoration.  So far, just took off the front license plate bracket.  That took 45 minutes as the screw heads got stripped eventually, so had to drill them out.  Next up is to get it insured as is and send off for a British Heritage Trust certificate so I can get a little more info on it.  I hope to work on the car frequently, put some posts here, and have it done in 3-5 years.

Edited February 11 by hursst (see edit history)

[unimogjohn]

Good luck with your project.  Most mechanicals are available.  Body parts also with some looking and poking around.  Going to be an interesting build for sure.  Keep us updated.

[Luv2Wrench]

Awesome looking project.  Can't wait to follow along.  I've been thinking of a car like that for awhile but I can't seem to get my current project finished.

 

[ROD W]

Hursst,

MGA,s are a great little car.  I bought one for my first car when I was 19.  Then ended up with three over a twenty year period,  one with the 1500 motor one with the 1600 motor and another I put  an MGB 1800  motor in.,  with a racing cam  ( it wasn,t very good to drive in town but very enjoyable out on the open road )   You have to remove the engine and gearbox together dropping the back of the g/b down and lifting the engine out on an angle.  Putting the front wheels on ramps helps so as to get the back of the g/b on enough of an angle to slide the engine forward and upward.  Its a tight fit. On the earlier models be sure to drain the gearbox of oil or you will end up with oil all over the floor.  Being  1960 yours may have the later gearbox.  There are lots of little roller bearings in the g/b which can be fun putting back in when replacing the sincro rings.  Later these roller bearings came in cages which made them much easier to replace. The body sills under the doors always rust out.  I had to replace them on all my cars,  they are a simple box section that you can get bent up and weld in.  Have fun.

Rod

[keiser31]

I am sooooo jealous. I just want my little '57 back....

[Restorer32]

In my years as an AACA Judge I have judged only 2 or 3 cars that scored a perfect 400 points. One was an MGA Conv. One of the first 3 cars we restored way back in the 1970's was an MGA Coupe.

[hursst]

Thanks for the words of encouragement, photos, and tips, they are appreciated.  Got it insured and the British Heritage Trust Certificate is on order in the meantime.  I also noticed that the mouse family in the boot decided to move out sometime before I got it home, so that's good.  Getting ready for the Sentimental Tour, so no work on the MG until I get back.

[hursst]

Got packed for the Sentimental Tour early, so found some more time.  Took apart the headlights and bumper over-riders this time.  I found that most of the nuts and bolts are quite rusty, but penetrating oil took car of most of them.  So far, the car also has a lot of attaching bolts with nuts on the back, which means the whole works spinning in place or putting a wrench on one side and a screwdriver on the other and trying not to strip the screw,  Had to drill out a few, as the Philips heads we too rusty and immediately stripped, but was lucky on most of them.

 

 

 

Not sure how to get out the headlight wiring yet, as I'm new to the MGA family.  Maybe there's a connector upstream somewhere?  For now, they just have to sag out of their openings.  The over riders were easy, but the bumper is going to be tough.  The captive bumper bolts are spinning in place when I try to take the bolt off behind them, so not sure how to get them off at the moment.  Probably will have to cut them off.  Looks like disassembly will be slow going. 

 

Also picked up some 1960 VA plates today.  Will register them soon.  Off to the tour tomorrow AM, maybe see some of you there!

 

-Chris

[hursst]

Back from the Sentimental Tour.  Had a great time.

 

Continued with the MG over the weekend.  Took the bumper off, had to cross-cut each bumper bolt to drill it out, as all primary captive bumper bolts were spinning in place, making it impossible to extract the nuts on the other side of the bumper.  Can't believe how light the bumper is.  It offers almost zero protection from anything (photo 1).

 

Continued on to remove the exterior grille facing, most of the bumper support brackets, and the front fascia. (photo 2, 4).  After a good soaking in penetrating lube, most of the nuts and bolts came out okay, with only a couple bolts breaking.  Starting to accumulate a nice pile of rust, dust, dirt, metal shavings, and who knows what else is coming from the car (photo 3).

 

Next will be the inner grille and starting to work on getting the front fenders off.  Still haven't discovered how to get the headlight buckets out, as the wiring does not appear to have any obvious connectors.  Any knowledge on this would be appreciated.

 

 

[keiser31]

I don't know if you know this, but the doors, hood and trunk lid are aluminum. Be VERY careful with them. I have had three MGAs and I loved driving the one I courted my first wife in. I am following this restoration with envy.

[hursst]

Now able to spend about an hour every other day on the disassembly.  Was able to remove the inner grille without too much trouble, and the inner air vents and brackets.  I'd like to get the front fenders off next, but that will involve removing the windshield frame (the windshield is missing).  So, next step was to remove the interior kick panels.  Had some trouble with a couple screwed due to rust, so had to cut a new screw line into the screw head to unscrew them.  At least I didn't have to drill.  Now I have access to the bolts that attach the windshield frame, so that will be the next step.

 

The trash can is mostly full of debris that mice packed away behind the front air vents inside the grille area (photo 1).  I still need to get the headlight buckets out, but now know there are some bullet connectors further up on the wiring harness.  The harness will be replaced, but want to keep the old one intact as a reference (photo 2).  Interior kick panel (photo 3).  Should be simple enough to replace the material, or possibly clean the whole thing and reuse, I'll have to inspect it further.  Trying to reuse as many original components as possible, with safety in mind as well.  Floor is not too bad, overall (photo 4).  Can probably reuse original heel pad and have it sewn into new carpet (seems like a good idea now, but we'll see how pricey that would be).  Most floor boards are intact, but one is broken and someone put an aluminum patch panel in.  Should be easy to replace.

 

 

[hursst]

Found a little time this weekend and did some work.  Was able to take out the headlights and parking lights by disconnecting the bullet connectors.  Also was able to take out the windshield frame (there's no glass in it) and take off the hood.  It's amazing how much easier this car is (so far) than my '74 Camaro.  Hope to get some time this weekend to take the front fenders off and make some real progress.

 

At this point, I need to get an owner's manual and a shop manual of some type.  That will really help when I try to actually restore these parts instead of just doing the disassembly.  Also, should be getting my British Heritage Trust certificate any day now.

[r1lark]

Making progress, that is what counts! I hope your windshield frame is easier to get apart than my TR3A frame was. There were carbon steel 'L' shaped brackets in each corner, each of them with four relatively tiny fine thread screws........rusted solid. Had to drill the screws out, and retap to a SAE fine thread. What a job. Later those L-shaped pieces became available as a reproduction  - that would have been so much easier

 

Where in North Carolina did the car come from?.

[keiser31]

Most of the stuff you will need is supplied by Moss Motors in Goleta, California.

[hursst]

I bought the car out of Greensboro, but it spent most of its life near Durham.  Yes, I already have the Moss Motors catalog.

[unimogjohn]

Now that the car is almost apart do you have an idea as to what you are going to do or others in the trades?  I know that you have much more to take apart, before you start putting it back together.  Just would like a discussion of your future plans.  

[hursst]

unimogjohn, I don't understand the second phrase of your question, but as far as my plans, first, complete disassembly, then full restoration to stock condition, using as many original parts fro the car as possible.  I'm also going to try to do as much as possible myself to lower costs and learn more auto restoration skills.  If I'm going to go thru the effort, I'll probably show it for a while, then drive it (carefully), as that's why they exist in the first place.

[hursst]

Been really motivated this week.  Was able to remove both front fenders with not too much trouble.  Had to take the doors off first.  That took about 30 seconds per door.  Fender took a lot longer.  Plenty of rust, but mostly surface rust.  Have some holes in the driver's side lower fender and both rockers.  The bottoms of the fenders and rockers is fairly rusty and will need some repair, but overall, this car is much more solid than it originally appeared.

 

Got my British Heritage Certificate in the mail yesterday.  Which I would have ordered it POST Brexit for the discount.  Was a little disappointed, I didn't learn too much about it.  Confirmed that it was originally white with black seats, grey soft top, it was built on Sep 21, 1959, and it had wire wheels, heater, white-wall tires, and a gray tonneau  cover as options.  It also has an adjustable steering column, but it is not on the heritage list of options.  Maybe they forgot it or maybe someone added it along the way.  They did not list the original dealer/destination, only listed "USA," plus they didn't (or forgot) to add the engine and body numbers, which I supplied, to the certificate.  I expected a little more for my Pounds.

 

The tonneau over is original and has some of the stitching undone, so I should be able to clean it and re-stitch it, which will be a nice original feature.  The top is original as well, but has some rips in it.  Probably can't save it.

 

Photo 1: Another mouse family in the front inside fender.  They had moved out.  Photo 2: Found this cool Esso sticker.  I'd like to save it, but I think it's too fragile to peel off in one piece.  Photo 3) Pass. fender off.  Photo 4) Dr. fender off and wheels back on.  Found some severe rot on the driver's side front wheel from sitting.  Will have to replace the wheel.  Too bad, as the rest of the wheel is in good condition.

 

Still have a long way to go with disassembly, but making good progress.  I think next I'll take over the trunk lid and rear fenders.  Happy 4th of July weekend!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[smithbrother]

I trust you are/have taken tons of CLOSE up photo's

 

Personally having been thru this with a MGA, and several other, so I lean towards taking a part off, restoring it, and then tackle another.   You can still do the frame off process, but in my experience it works well. 

 

lt's much easier to remove pieces, but much harder to restore when you have so many parts to deal with, IMHO It can easily become overwhelming, for sure, maybe not for you, but so many have experienced such.

 

I wish YOU well, not picking on you,

 

Dale in Indy

[hursst]

Dale, I have a very good system of numbering each item, bagging and/or securing all fasteners to the larger item, taking photos, and writing notes.  I did this with my '74 Camaro and had no problems.  This car is MUCH easier than a '74 Camaro. 

[r1lark]

2 hours ago, hursst said:

Dale, I have a very good system of numbering each item, bagging and/or securing all fasteners to the larger item, taking photos, and writing notes.  I did this with my '74 Camaro and had no problems.  This car is MUCH easier than a '74 Camaro. 

 

hursst, that is definitely the way to do a disassembly! Not sure how folks who throw the parts in a big pile, put all the fasteners in a big bucket, and rely on their memory of where something went ever get the car back together correctly.

 

I did similar to what you are doing on my Studebaker, and am now reassembling it after 25+ years  and have every piece and every fastener.

[smithbrother]

Sounds like you have a good plan/system.  I just didn't see any tags attached to parts pictured, and know how easy it it to loose track of what goes where, and what long bolts go here what short bolt goes there, etc.

 

Enjoy your build,

 

Dale in Indy

[hursst]

Each part gets a number and/or a "P" or "D" for passenger or driver, if there are two of the same part on each side.  I put blue tape on the part, give it a number, then record the number in a log book with a description, how many fasteners go with it and what type, and any notes.  Any fasteners are either placed back on the part loose if they will thread back in or have a bolt on the other side, or they go in a ziplock bag, with the same number in it.  If there are a lot of fasteners, I'll number the fasteners in the order they were removed, as to ensure their correct position.  I then dump all the parts, in rough order, in a storage shed, to get them out of the way.

 

Assembly of the car is just going through all the numbers in reverse (for the most part, as some missing pieces or large systems may need this or that before you can go on to the next step).  All wire connections get a letter on each loose wire that corresponds to where it connects on the other end.  "A" goes to "A," etc.  Throw in lots of "before" photos and it's hard to mess it up.  It's really just like a plastic model kit, except you have about 4000 parts instead of 30, and it takes about 3-5 years instead of 3-5 days.

 

Some of the parts in the photos were not "processed" yet, but they will go thru the process immediately, I just took the photo as soon as I got some of the parts off. 

 

Thanks for the replies, it's encouraging and motivating to see so many of the other cool project cars here, and to learn a lot of good information for my own restoration from the comments.

[Spinneyhill]

You have the most admirable self discipline I have heard of in this hobby. I also wonder how you remove a dirty part then get into the clean activities of photo's, tagging, bagging and noting. And then back to removing another dirty part. This an eye-opener. Xclnt!

[Luv2Wrench]

Still really excited by this project and very happy to see you making great progress.  I like you system for disassembly and tracking parts.  One thing I've started doing (by accident actually) is making video of each 'system' before and while taking it apart.   It always seemed in the past that no matter how many pictures I took I was always missing something.  That was generally because when I took things apart I didn't always understand how things fit together and what would be tricky to figure out when putting it back together.  In other words... you don't really know what you're going to forget when putting it back together so you don't always take a picture of that.  I make a general overview video while doing a narration describing what I see and how it fits together.  I've been pretty surprised at just how many times I've needed to go back through that video to find some important detail.  I'm also a little surprised when I watch the video later and see how much I either didn't notice or forgot about... that's probably a topic for another discussion and possibly age related. 

 

[hursst]

Messed around for about 45 minutes today.  Next step is to take off the rear fenders.  To do that properly, looks like I have to take off the rear bumper, and to do that easily, I may have to drop the gas tank.  Note the home-made taillight on the driver's side (photo 2).  So, took the trunk lid off and started with the fuel filler tube.  Of course it has an aftermarket locking gas gap...with no key.  Luckily, the tube can be disconnected in the trunk and it pulls right out (Photo 3).  Guess I'll have to go to a locksmith to get the cap removed, but at least I can take the small tube and cap with me. 

 

Gathered up the tools that were in the trunk.  I have the starter crank, jack with handle, tire pump, and spare tire clamp (photo 1).  I don't know what other tools I'm missing yet, but happy to have this stuff.  Missing quite a few small parts with this car so far, but nothing major.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2016 by hursst (see edit history)

[hursst]

Worked towards getting a rear fender off today, but didn't quite make it.  Started by taking off the rear bumper.  The captive nuts in the bumper spin in place, just like the front bumper's did.  Luckily, the rear bumper was tweaked just enough for me to get a wrench up in there, and I was able to remove both nuts that attach the bumper to the frame, so took the bumper off as one assembly instead of taking it apart further. 

 

Next, I had to take the rear wheels off for better access, then had to take the tail lights out.  This was a huge hassle, as there are a multitude of bullet connectors all at one point for the rear wiring harness.  Once I got those out and labelled them (photo 3), there is no easy way to get the tail lights off and the wiring out, as they appear to be one big connected system, no connectors.  The driver's side had a home-made taillight and the wiring was cut and spliced, so I just cut them at the splices and was able to feed everything through the small hole at the rear of the passenger's tail light.

 

Next, I had to take off the 3 small nuts and bolts at the bottom front of the rear fender.  These are very rusty and were very hard to get off.  These fasteners have small captive nuts and they always spin in place, so it was quite difficult.  Next, had to take out the 2 inner fender panels at front and rear.  These were easy.  Last, had to take out all the fender bolts.  Well, the very last bolt closest to the passenger compartment comes off from the inside of the car.  The bolt is covered from the inside by a interior panel, of which the convertible top is bolted into.  So, have to take the top off to get to the panel to get to the hidden bolt in order to get the fender off.  One screw on each side that secures the top to the car is stripped, so will probably have to drill them out, which will be a big hassle as well.  Had a strange surprise on the top, check out those hippie flowers stuck on the top (photo 1).  I'm guessing they are not original!  The top is in fairly good shape, I may actually be able to save it by cleaning it and having new plastic windows sewn in.

 

In addition, took the exhaust out.  It took about 3 tenths of a second to remove...as it just fell out completely (photo 4).  I'll use it as a template for the new exhaust.

Edited July 4, 2016 by hursst (see edit history)

[Zimm63]

My first car was a 60 MGA in 1974.  Mine needed a complete redo of the body and repair to rusted out sections of the frame.  Yours looks to be very solid in comparison.

 

Car was a lot of fun, but was sold to buy something that could be used year round.  Replaced it about 10 years later with a TR3.

[hursst]

Well, those hippy flowers ended up hiding a well-repaired tear in the top, so I'll have to replace the top.  Maybe I can sell the old one to someone with a driver MGA.

 

Took off the other rear fender yesterday, but not without some trouble.  On the rear door pillar, there are 3 screws that screw into the pillar itself, the rear fender lip, and then a captive nut.  Of course the last screw ended up spinning the captive nut in place, so had to cut off the screw to get the fender off.  There's no access to the captive nut, it's fully enclosed, so will either have to cut a hole in the pillar or just live with it.  I'll worry about it later.

 

Bought some angle iron to shore up the door frames when I take the body off (photo 1).  With some modification, I should be able to screw them right into the front door hinge holes and holes where the door latch is.  Don't have a welder yet and this method should leave no damage to have to clean up.

 

I think the next step is to remove the gas tank, then probably the engine.  I expect this to get a little more difficult now that there will be more confined spaces and tighter fits of things.

[keiser31]

Yep...that engine and transmission removal will definitely test your mettle....be sure you have help on that one.

Edited July 6, 2016 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[hursst]

This round, focused on the rear of the car.  Took the gas tank out, was actually quite easy.  The tank seems to be in okay condition for now, but the inside is a different story (photo 1).  Some nice chunks of 45-year old gas in there. Took out some more misc parts from the trunk, like the spare tire cover and the trunk latch mechanism, among other small parts.  Found a rust hole in the rear driver's side trunk corner (photo 4).  Also found a rust hole at the front of the trunk, caused by its proximity to the batteries (photo 5). 

 

Next, started to work on the passenger compartment.  Looked in the battery compartment and found some OLD batteries.  These were Autolites dating from Fall, 1966 (photo 2).  Car has probably been sitting since 1971 or so, I guess it was a true barn find by the previous "broker" who sold it to me. 

 

Next job will be taking out the large aluminum patch screwed to the bottom of the floor, so I can get the seats and floor boards out.

Edited July 9, 2016 by hursst (see edit history)

[hursst]

Was able to work on and off the last week, mostly off.  Spent a lot of time today working.  Was able to take out the seats, the rear floorboards, and the shelf board.  As usual, it was not that easy due to heavy corrosion of the fasteners and some of the bolts/fasteners spinning in place from the other side.  I had to drill out about half of the large screws used to hold in the floorboards.  The driver's side had a large piece of sheet aluminum screwed into the bottom of the frame, as the wood floorboard was rotten.  The driver's side floorboard turned to splinters upon removal, whereas the passenger side was intact, but a little dry rotted. I'll be able to use it as a template.    The rear shelf board is in excellent condition and can be reused.   Not sure if I'll just buy the new wood kit, or make my own.  Probably make my own to save some $$$.  Found a 1959 penny under the carpet, but otherwise nothing else interesting.

 

Photo 1) after the sheet aluminum was removed, but before the seat was removed.  Love the wooden floorboards, so easy to replace compared to welding in steel.   Photo 2) Here's a pile of residue I swept up from under the car so far.   The car was starting to compost itself over time, like all cars do.  Photo 3) Here's after removing the floorboards and part of the driveshaft tunnel.  Photo 4) a further back view of the passenger compartment.

 

I think next is removing the fuel tank straps, then the drive shaft, then maybe start getting the engine ready for removal.  Still really happy with the overall condition, the rate of which it's coming apart, and the simplicity of disassembly so far.  I'm sure I'll run into some more difficult issues, but looking forward to reaching the total disassembly point where you start putting the car back together again.

 

 

[hursst]

Trying to do a little each day and a lot on weekends when I'm around.  Got the driveshaft out (photo 1)  and am continuing to disassemble the passenger compartment for now.

 

I got the original tonneau cover with the car, but a lot of the stitching is coming apart.  Overall, it survived quite well and I think the piece is nice enough to clean and sew it back up, so I'm going to sew it up by hand, a little at a time.  Should be easy, since I can just follow all the existing holes.  It will take a while, but a good project to do a little at a time at night (Photos 2-3)

 

[hursst]

Made some slow but steady progress this last week and weekend.  Working towards getting the engine out, but have to get the transmission tunnel out first, but have to get the floor boards out to get to the transmission tunnel.  I got all the floorboards out except the upper driver's side one.  It's been quite difficult as most the fasteners are severely corroded and must be drilled out.  Some I've been able to save, but I must use an impact screwdriver, which is very time-consuming, but want to keep as many good fasteners as I can.  It's also been tough working in 95 degree heat.

 

Luckily, I'll be able to save about 1/2 the original floorboards and use the other half as templates for new ones (photo 2), along with parts of the carpet and jute padding which are in good condition.  Going to be another busy week, but hope to have the transmission tunnel out soon.

[hursst]

It was 102 today with a heat index of 110.  Time to spend all day in the garage.  Actually, my garage is about 15 or more degrees cooler, so I was able to work on the MG in relative comfort. 

 

I've been working slowly over the last 2 weeks toward getting the transmission out, but haven't had much time until today.  I saw on article on the Moss Motors website where a guy took the trans out through the passenger compartment.  Seeing how long the trans is and how little room there is in the engine bay, it made sense to me to take it out through the passenger compartment (which I can do myself), then yank the engine straight up when it's ready instead of having to tilt it 278 degrees and stand on my head.

 

Easier said than done, but really no time lost as the whole car has to come apart anyway.  Ended up having to take out the clutch and brake pedal assembly, the master cylinder, the clutch slave cylinder, loosen the starter, remove the steering column, remove the accelerator cable, remove the metal portion of the lower firewall, remove the heater, and remove the fasteners from about 10 of the 3,000 cables running from the dash through the firewall/engine compartment (photo 1).

 

With the help of a floor jack, I was able to get the trans high enough up to tilt it so it didn't get caught on the frame structure and so I could grab it and move it out.  I was surprised how light it was, as I was able to easily yank it out through the passenger compartment by myself.  Photo of the trans removed (photo 3).  Aftermath of all the parts removal today (photo 2).

 

I also spent a few minutes examining the wheels.  Unfortunately, 2 of them appear to have sunken into the ground at some point for a very long time, so there's a portion at the bottom that is severely rusted as it was probably buried.  Judging from the age of the batteries, I appears to have sat for about 43 years, if I did my match correctly, probably in a dirt-floor barn, as it would not have survived outdoor storage.  I think I can save the other 3 wheels, but I won't know for sure until the wheels are stripped.

 

Next step will be getting the engine stripped down more so it can be removed.

Edited August 14, 2016 by hursst (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

I was at this point about three years ago in my restoration.  I remember the rust and grease all too well.  Looking forward to seeing your progress.

[hursst]

Been a while since an update, I was on a 2-week vacation.  Have the engine all ready to come out, but plans fell through to yank it out yesterday.  It will have to wait.  Been spending time taking off a lot of misc stuff, like the exhaust hangers, fuel tank straps, rear bumper mounts, windshield wipers, and tonneau cover snaps, among other bits and pieces (photo).  Next will be working on removing the gauges and knobs from the dash while I wait on getting my help together for the engine pull. 

[keiser31]

Be VERY, VERY careful removing that heater control Bakelite panel from the dashboard. That sucker will snap if you look at it the wrong way! If I remember correctly, there is a set screw in the round knob on that slider adjustment.

Edited September 7, 2016 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[hursst]

Thanks for the advice, I'll be extra careful with it.

[hursst]

Reached a huge milestone today, got the engine out.  In hindsight, I probably should have waited and taken the body off first before I took of the trans and engine in 2 separate pieces, but it was fairly straight forward.  Now, back to the body and stripping out the dash/gauges and all the myriad tubes that go through the cowl.