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33 Auburn 8-105 Water Jacket Leaking Into Oil (Block Repair)???


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I just bought a 33 Auburn 8-105 and the Lycoming straight 8 engine was rebuilt last year. The rear water jacket is leaking Into Oil (3 very small pin holes) and I am looking for the closed shop to Nashville TN that still works and repairs cast iron blocks. I have heard there is a spay welding technique that can be used to add more material and I am also interested in checking out the entire block to make sure thee are no other thin areas while it is apart. Fortunately it is in a water jacket and it seems to be in an accessible non-structural area.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Thanks,

Curt

 

leak1-1024x576.jpg

 

 

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Curt

 

 

I replied on the ACD forum but it appears to be down right now.

I have the identical problem on a engine rebuilt by the previous owner. I've been thinking about it for two years now! I really don't want to tear the engine apart , already have enough stuff apart and really just wanted a running car!

I did make some inquiries of Barrry Wolk on this post regarding engine concrete. Would be interesting to find out how the engine in the Ruxton is holding up!

http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=44158

 

Let me know if you get any leads on other repair methods.

 

Brad

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10 hours ago, bradsan said:

Curt

 

 

I replied on the ACD forum but it appears to be down right now.

I have the identical problem on a engine rebuilt by the previous owner. I've been thinking about it for two years now! I really don't want to tear the engine apart , already have enough stuff apart and really just wanted a running car!

I did make some inquiries of Barrry Wolk on this post regarding engine concrete. Would be interesting to find out how the engine in the Ruxton is holding up!

http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=44158

 

Let me know if you get any leads on other repair methods.

 

Brad

I tried the JB Weld High Heat Putty and that did not work once I put 4 lbs of pressure on it. Next week I will clean the putty off and I will try the 2 part classic JB Weld. After that I have been looking at a product called Irontite that puts in a ceramic coating after the cooling system is flushed out.

 

If that does not work I guess it is pull the engine apart and have it welded. I found http://www.indyheads.com/ who does it the proper way which is to place the block in an oven to get it hot then weld in repairs. They have to look at ti to see if there is enough metal to weld to. They also have a $500 min charge if they take it on. 

 

I have been looking at inexpensive ultrasound machines which can give you a metal thickness reading. Machine shops use these and I have found one on Amazon for like $140.00. Someone else said if there is enough metal and I can get a drill and tap in there then to put a bolt in with sealer on it.

 

Lots of options depending on metal thickness.

 

I would love to find a place closer to Nashville but no luck yet.

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Curt

 

I'm concerned about the metal thickness and whether there is enough metal to hold a repair and then how long that repair will last.

I don't think you are going to get anything to stick to the outside, needs to be on the inside and, of course, you cant get to it!

Apparently, the part of the problem was running cars on straight water without coolant . Without coolant corrosion inhibitors, , straight water in the system also increases cavitation bubbles and accelerates corrosion.

I was leaning towards the concrete as a permanent repair.. I think I would only need to fill up  the first inch to flood the cracked area as opposed to covering the whole interior. Apparently , the drag cars just fill up the bottom of the water jacket and don't worry about coating the entire interior.  Did you check out the Ruxton post?

 

Brad

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I did look at the Ruxton post and have a friend who did something similar on an old graham page and it has been holding. 

 

I am trying to avoid pulling my head but if it comes to that I may just send the block off for a proper welding repair. 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I used a product called IRON TIGHT on my 32 Auburn. Its a superior sealing product used for exactly what your problem is. I found it at a diesel motor rebuilding shop. They used it in every rebuild that had wet sleeve construction as it will seal up permanently small leaks. Its also used when a block has been welded and seals the pin holes. The last I knew it couldn't be bought  in retail stores like NAPA. Check it out, its worked for me on 2 different cars .

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  • 1 year later...

Welding is NOT a correct repair as the entire engine will need to be remachined after heating and cooling......trust me you don’t want to do that for any reason. Stitching it and sleeves are your best options,

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  • 2 months later...

UPDATE:

 

Well I wanted to give you all an update after months of deciding what to do I took a dual path approach. I have a spare engine that would need sleeving and bearings so I cleaned that block up in case my next plan did not work :) 

 

The main plan was to pulling the engine out and disassembled it to bare block. I took it to a local stitchnlock expert and the location was in a place where it could not be drilled and tapped so then to plan B. 

 

PLAN B:

I came across a company by the name of MuggyWeld and they have a special rod called a muggyweld 77 which is just for welding cast iron. This is a process that does not require preheating of the cast iron which was important to me because I did not want to melt out the babbot cam bearing. 

 

Ibought 2lbs of some very expensive rod for about $65 and ran it down to a friends shop who has successfully welded cast in the past. He drilled the ends and v'd out the crack and the muggyweld rods worked like a champ. Crack is all sealed and no strange noise or residual cracks from welding.

 

==========================================

This is some info form the Muggyweld website on the rods, If they work this well all the time I am sold. https://www.muggyweld.com/product/77-electrode/

77 is a premium electrode that produces welds which are high strength, crack resistant, and porosity free when applied to a wide variety of cast irons.  The special tri-metal core wire has a high current carrying capacity and the specially designed coating converts the impurities of the base metal into slag instead of being trapped in the deposit. The high deposition rate creates an extremely narrow heat affected zone– a feature suitable for all weldable cast irons requiring post weld machining.

 

77 cast iron welding rods are softer than nickel rods, and have unique properties that allow the cast iron welds to stretch and elongate up to 300 percent more than other rods, which helps prevent the base metal and weld from cracking in the process.

 

Here is a video of them doing a cast weld, no preheating of the block. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K85MH9Z5FPU

 

20180302_101813.jpg

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Curt

 

Thanks for posting an update on this.

I was wondering if Locknstitch could get in there too. Now I know!

I'm curious if you were able to diagnose exactly what the problem was when they grooved it prior to repair. Was it a crack or was it a bunch of pinholes? Any concerns about what was left for the weld to hang onto?

 

Brad

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  • 2 months later...
On 3/19/2018 at 4:56 PM, Curt Curtiss said:

UPDATE:

 

Well I wanted to give you all an update after months of deciding what to do I took a dual path approach. I have a spare engine that would need sleeving and bearings so I cleaned that block up in case my next plan did not work :) 

 

The main plan was to pulling the engine out and disassembled it to bare block. I took it to a local stitchnlock expert and the location was in a place where it could not be drilled and tapped so then to plan B. 

 

PLAN B:

I came across a company by the name of MuggyWeld and they have a special rod called a muggyweld 77 which is just for welding cast iron. This is a process that does not require preheating of the cast iron which was important to me because I did not want to melt out the babbot cam bearing. 

 

Ibought 2lbs of some very expensive rod for about $65 and ran it down to a friends shop who has successfully welded cast in the past. He drilled the ends and v'd out the crack and the muggyweld rods worked like a champ. Crack is all sealed and no strange noise or residual cracks from welding.

 

==========================================

This is some info form the Muggyweld website on the rods, If they work this well all the time I am sold. https://www.muggyweld.com/product/77-electrode/

77 is a premium electrode that produces welds which are high strength, crack resistant, and porosity free when applied to a wide variety of cast irons.  The special tri-metal core wire has a high current carrying capacity and the specially designed coating converts the impurities of the base metal into slag instead of being trapped in the deposit. The high deposition rate creates an extremely narrow heat affected zone– a feature suitable for all weldable cast irons requiring post weld machining.

 

77 cast iron welding rods are softer than nickel rods, and have unique properties that allow the cast iron welds to stretch and elongate up to 300 percent more than other rods, which helps prevent the base metal and weld from cracking in the process.

 

Here is a video of them doing a cast weld, no preheating of the block. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K85MH9Z5FPU

 

 

Another update:

 

When I took the block back to the machine shop he found 2 cracks developed in the weld. My welder tried again but found the cracks moved and the areas they moved to were too thin in the water jacket to weld. I am looking for another block and also trying plan C:

 

I purchased some Belzona 1111 metal epoxy and I applied it this morning and I just went down and took a spare blob I kept and whacked it with a hammer and this stuff is very tough. I am going to let it dry a day or two and see how it is once it totally cures. My issue it is very near where the valve spring is and I am worried about structure holding up.

 

I am still looking for another engine but this may be my only option.

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Curt

 

That sucks.

How did the rest of the engine check out when magnafluxed? If the deck and valve seats were okay and  since the engine is all already all apart, what do you have to loose by trying the concrete repair?

 

The cost of materials is pretty cheap ,

You'd likely want to sleeve the cylinders which ever way you went. but the rest of it would just bolt back together.

The problem with a new block is that it might still have the same problem or another one entirely ( like the common cracks from the head bolt holes to the valve seats)

 

Brad

 

 

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2 days ago I went ahead and tried the Belzona 1111 metal epoxy repair and that stuff is very tough when it dries. I am letting it set up for a few days then will take the block back over for a magnaflux, hopeful that will fix it. I talked to the ACD factory and they said they have had success using this stuff in the past.

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