40BuickSuper

Belleville Washers For Exhaust Manifold

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I am currently replacing all of my exhaust manifold gaskets and would like to buy the correct (Belleville ??)

washers that hold my 1940 Buick Super exhaust manifold or could tell me the correct size and where to buy them. Currently I have a variety of washers holding it which is not doing the joib.

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McMaster-Carr has them.

 

Line

 

Product

Ordered

Ships

Price

Total

1

9713K423

Stainless Steel Belleville Disc Spring, .390" ID, .937" OD, .070" Thick, packs of 6

4
packs

in the morning

8.97
per pack

35.88

Cheers, Dave

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The originals are indeed thicker, however, I think the originals were cast and the steel used today means a thinner washer can be used for the same deflection @ load. I dunno, I'm an EE, maybe Mike in Colo can weigh in, he's a metals guy. I believe Mark Shaw's procedure specifies these, or close anyway.

 

Here is Mark's original procedure.

 

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Be careful of shipping charges when ordering small items from Mc Master Carr.  They just charged me $26.52 to ship a 1.25" diameter by 3/16" item UPS second day air when the item cost only $8.57.  This item could easily ship via USPS for under $7.00.

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On ‎6‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 10:46 AM, Mark Shaw said:

Be careful of shipping charges when ordering small items from Mc Master Carr.  They just charged me $26.52 to ship a 1.25" diameter by 3/16" item UPS second day air when the item cost only $8.57.  This item could easily ship via USPS for under $7.00.

 

Ouch!!

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McMaster Carr credited the shipping charge after I complained.  They say they are working on getting envelopes for small items and adding other shipping options. 

The big issue is not showing shipping charges on their site prior to order entry.  They say they are working on that too. 

Stay tuned....

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Not showing shipping charges has always been one of my complaints with them also.  Seems like everyone else but them are able to show shipping. Go figure.

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I order from them just about every week and have always thought their shipping charges were quite reasonable... but I never ask for special service, like next day etc. 

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I do not order next day, it is just that I would like to know the price of shipping when I order.  With the Post Office offering flat rate shipping it should not be that hard.

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I just bought a pack of 12 stainless steel Belleville washers from McMaster Carr. They came in a box UPS ground for $5.27 shipping, about what a UPS Priority Flat Rate Box would cost. They shipped from Aurora, OH, Cleveland Area I think, I am in Pittsburgh area, I got them the next day. For shipping UPS that is not bad. I have been surprised by UPS recently. I was fortunate enough to get a complete 3 piece set of manifolds for my 1940 Super, Intake, Exhaust, Heat Riser from a forum member in Illinois. UPS is only charging $44.95 for 49 pounds.  Go figure.

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I have a 1925 Standard Buick.  I have 6 of the original Belleville manifold washers for my 6 cylinder.  They are 1/4" thick.  They are .450 ID and 1 3/8 OD.  They do not look cast, they look punch stamped.  They were probably punched out, and smashed to create the bevel at the same time, and then heat treated (just guessing).  I would think that one of the things these are also trying to do with their bevel shape, is to not apply pressure on the ends of the manifold hold down tab.  Keep the pressure closer to the heavier part of the casting - around the outside edge of the belleville.  I doubt if these old belleville washers flexed any.  They were installed with a lock washer.  In theory, this would do the flexing if needed.  Not sure how much pressure these lock washers exerted when heated up, probably not much.  I would think a 1" OD may be too small for some model Buicks, so you may want to select a larger size when ordering.      

Hugh

Edited by gr8success
added note on sizing. (see edit history)

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Bob's now has these Belleville washers that are 1 3/16" OD, 1/2" ID and 1/4" thick. The 1 3/16" turned out to  be too large in diameter for my 248 manifolds. I think what I need is  1" OD, 3/8" ID and 1/4" thick. Anyone have a source for such a size?

Thanks

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Restoration Specialties in Windber PA maybe?

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Well I used the ones from McMaster-Carr called out in my reply above and they have worked out fabulously in my 1940 248. No exhaust leaks so far anyhow.

 

Cheers, Dave

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Thanks Dave, I saw your post some time ago but was concerned about the thickness. But since you aren't having any problems with them I give them a try if I can't find something thicker.

Regards,

Dave

 

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i see this is quite an old post but----has anybody located belleville washers more like the originals? Several people have referred to the ones available from McMaster-Carr but they are much thinner and don't look like the originals. The old ones are thicker and on the crude side. Don't look flexible to me but apparently they worked. The car i'm working on came to me with bolts and flat washers. Maybe that sort of thing accounts for some of the cracked manifolds out there.

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Not to take away from anyone's efforts to find more authentic washers, but it is also of high importance to make sure the manifold can slide as it expands even when you don't have original hardware. Flat washers tend to restrict motion by squeezing down in the gap. Also pay attention to any studs that might get in the way as the manifold gets larger. As built the manifold may normally drag on the outside of the studs. This is so it will pull away as the manifold gets larger, and it won't bottom out on the inside of the studs.

 

Belleville washers can help. The manifold WILL move as it expands. If something gets in it's way, it will just break.

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It's not the expansion under heat that is a problem.  Cast iron has excellent compressive loading.  It's the shrinking when cooling that will crack the manifolds.  Make sure the  manifold surfaces where the washe make contact are smooth.  Start light on torque and only go tighter if there is leakage.

 

Bob Engle

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Thanks everybody. Working properly is more important than looking right, so going with the McMaster- Carr washers makes great sense. 

Somewhere on this forum I read that Fastenal can order something more like the real thing. I will check with them Mon. a.m. 

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I looked at quite a few washers and they were too big, too thick etc. So did what Gary Wheeler did with his fantastic restoration, body off of his 37 2 dr Special; contact ed Dave Tacheny for some originals in good condition.

Good luck,

Dave

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You can find the exact washer you need on Ebay if you order the ones for the Jeep Wrangler which used these same spring type washers also known as belville washers. I bought a set for my 41 and they are perfect. Use the thick copper gaskets and plenty of graphite slurry on both sides. Tighten from the middle out and dont go over 18 foot pounds torque. If your windshield wipers are working you will know you are not leaking when they move really fast!   Cheers mate 

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