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PWB

'65 Survivor?

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Nothing wrong with a little surface rust patina. Clean it up, and drive it. I can't bring myself to paint mine.

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OK Riviera People: For sale for  a while which means the money...ain't...quite...rite!  A lousy presentation doesn't help the seller either.  With 65 Rivs on fire right now I would have thought a local Riv guy would have picked this one off right away.    Mitch

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1 hour ago, lrlforfun said:

OK Riviera People: For sale for  a while which means the money...ain't...quite...rite!  A lousy presentation doesn't help the seller either.  With 65 Rivs on fire right now I would have thought a local Riv guy would have picked this one off right away.    Mitch

 

Why no interior photos -- could that be the problem?  Is the mileage really 121XXX?  These cars probably weren't perfect when new, but does the trunk lid gap above the rear bumper look more uneven than usual (i.e., previous collision damage)?  I agree; so, what's the issue with this car...?

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You have to consider that you might have to spend just as much on this one to make it pristine (after all, it's been sitting for a loooooooooooooong time) as you would on one that will need the same paint, interior, small items, rust removal, etc. as one that you could get for half the price.  It's not really a survivor that's been well cared for; it was forgotten and not cared for.

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                Perfectly stated Ed......the nice survivor for more money will save tons of money in the long run.

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As much as I like the changes made front & rear for '65, I think I would have kept the side vents -- thoughts...?

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That's what ultimately made me decide on a 64'. The lack of side vents in particular took it from being something of a muscle/luxury appearance to a straight out luxury car. In fact the front and rear to me says late 60's, almost 70's in character. I prefer the earlier period styling of the 63/64. I know most people see the 65' model as the ultimate though so each to their own. 

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Yeah, not sure why they got rid of that; big mistake. The 65 is just so clean without any headlights showing. And after you have a classic with the hideaway windshield wipers for example, they end up looking clumsy. Clamshells are legend, but you can't beat the 66-67 body style IMO. 

 

Personally, I would like to see a Riviera with 65 clamshells, 66-67 space ace pointed front end, 63-34 vents, 71 boat tail rear window and back end that morphs into the 68 rear lights, 1970 side chrome, 455 engine, and skirts, 67 Aluminum star wars air cleaner with the aluminum GS covers, and of course a 66-68 center console shifter. O and of course I would add a phantom front window, silver arrow tri-steering wheel, and some Pegasus styling!

 

Man, I think we just need to actually MAKE the concept Pontiac Scorpion and Call it the Ultimate Riviera!

 

 

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IMHO, if the stylist are going to put vents in the side of a car, they should be functional.

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Yeah, indeed. What is with the fake out?! The profit driven monsters are always around to screw something up! But why not just make the real deal and charge more? 

 

REAL VENTS PLEASE!!!

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I love the fake vents on my 63. It's like loving your blonde girlfriend even if she's a bottle blonde. Looks good to me. IMHO real vents would have been better looking but probably hard to justify from a cost and practicality standpoint. As a benefit to performance (intake, brake cooling etc), who knows how much benefit they'd really offer? Practically speaking, most of the design cues that hint at performance on the cars we love probably wouldn't even affect performance unless the car was operating an speed twice they are actually capable of. The more you look at some of the most respected cars from the 50s/60s/70s, the more you realize how many of the most loved design elements where really just fake: Late 60's SS hoods scoops, phoney. Mopar GTX waistline scoops, fake. Trans Am shaker hoods, blocked. Very few actually had a snorkel set up or cold air system but a lot of them had bad ass looking scoops etc. They messed up tooling costs, emissions, aerodynamics, cost money, malfunctioned and leaked. That said, I am a sucker for them all, fake or not. I am willing to suspend reality. I wish more car designers today were willing to step out and make cars more fanciful, aggressive whatever. PRL

 

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Well, they DO make great, gorgeous/aggressive intakes today.

Isn't this what the people want???

 

Lexus - the UGGLIEST cars on the road IMO

 

 

 

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Edited by PWB (see edit history)

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I have been noticing the Predator look on quite a few cars since Chevy chrome plated the mandibles.

 

I have always preferred the '64 Riviera in the first series. I had a '66. If I had bought the '66 first I might not own the '64. The styling was a big shift and dropped the Mulliner S Bentley knock off look. The elbow room in the '66 was a little more generous and makes it  a bit nicer to drive.

The fake scoops create a vertical line at the point where the Bentley has a rear wing bulge. It is pleasing to the eye and only loses desirability when a person is conscious of then being non-functional. It is a character thing, like the blonde. I kinda like the blonde who has slightly prominent front teeth because she sucked her thumb until she was 14. It's in the eye of the beholder.

I like the '3 and '4 rear bumpers, more sculptured and less of a slab. I like the bombsight over the button. The hidden headlights on the '66 had one central motor with a torsion bar connector. It was trouble free for me. I like the unclad rocker panel's clean look, although they blend well with the '66 body.

 

I like the first series reversed Corvette hood and the Vette razor front fenders. Right now I sand a little on my Riviera roof each time I go out to the garage, kind of farting around and not being aggressive. I removed the incorrect vinyl top and getting ready to paint it a last time. The incorrect top will be replaced by an incorrect two tone paint job. If I don't like it I'll scuff it and make it all maroon.

Bernie

 

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Wow -- I guess my last comment struck a nerve!  My takeaways:

1. Looks like I'm with Mozzie and Chimera on the 1st gen side vents; I like 'em (functional or not).

2. Chimera, PWB & I are obviously partial to the 2nd gen styling, but I think the 1st, 3rd and '79-'85 FWD Rivs are all handsome cars then and still.

3. Pontiac Scorpion = COOL!  Love the front (I see Pontiac and 2nd gen Riv), full-Monte boat-tail baby! Those swoopy fender openings with the inner fender coves (ala '53 Skylark): awesome!

4. Functional vents/scoops > Fake vents/scoops > no vents/scoops

5. PWB -- so, what's with the Lexus pictures?  The one on the left is 2016, so I guess the one on the right is the 2017 GS 350 F Sport?

6. 60FlatTop hit the nail(head) -- those Corvette fender design queues are also common with the 1st gen Riv and part of Bill Mitchell's 'sheer look' that I appreciate.  And that Scorpion has all of the Mitchell design queues rolled into one gorgeous body -- aaaahhhhhhhh...

Nice discussion!

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I love the 63 and 64 ALMOST as much as the 65. My next favorite is the 66-67 with the 68-69 next in line. The 70 seems like a redheaded stepchild, but it is sure growing on me, especially with half fender skirts instead of full. The boattails are growing fast as well. After 73, I just sort of lose interest. I have loved and wanted a 1965 Buick Riviera since I was a smal child, and I just believe it is one of, if not THE, most beautful cars ever made, bar none. Sometimes, on nice weekend mornings, I just sit in my carport and drink coffee and STARE at it. Cars today will NEVER have the style this car has, and it really feels like it has great build quality, and some neat engineering as well. Truly seems ahead of its time.

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Edited by jframe (see edit history)

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I was speaking to one of the original designers at the Colorado meet, what was his name? Charles? Anyway, I always thought that these cars, especially the 1st generation looked "Medieval." After speaking with the designer, I found that they actually were...Literally! Bill Mitchell told him to go to the museum  and get inspiration from the medieval armor! Notice how the clamshells for example open like a knights helmet. There is no doubt, Rivieras are the most bad ass vehicles ever made, and the public is still playing catchup! 

 

Also, when it comes to beauty, even in natural settings, function does play a role. For example a ravens wing is extremely beautiful in form and the silky rainbow obsidian black feather are also marvelous because they play such an amazing role functionally. This is why vents that actually work are far more desirable: because beauty is truly a direct parallel with the form of health. Nothing wrong with dying hair, but a Riviera gentleman might leave the fake implants to a Camaro or Mustang guy. We want show AND go!

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Also, after reading the multiple articles in the Riview on the development of the 71 Riviera, it is clear that the original design was going to be something very similar to the scorpion. Some wanted a pure form, but in the end the design was certainly compromised due to cost saving measures (cowards!). In the 71 GS however, the sleek design for looks is only the beginning. It had an on board computer for adjusting to different terrains in 1971, thats early technology. The standard quick steering ratio, supped up carb and cams (455 engine from hell), upgraded handling, wrap around batman dash, hero drum breaks, and many other perfected applications. A 1971 GS Riviera is basically a luxury sports tank. I do believe that one of the biggest mistakes was put forward in 71 however. A plastic grill.......really? I can only imagine they did the math and figured no matter how many they had to replace, it would still save money. My guess is that they got many complaints about this and switched back the next year.

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