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rodneybeauchamp

Anyone fitted these to first generation Riviera?

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In my search for Astro Supreme or similar True-Spoke Supreme wheels, Came across the Cragar Series Supreme wheel as shown here.

 

Seems I am more likely to obtain these from an Australian supplier as I am unsure if True-Spoke are represented here.

 

Has anyone fitted any of these to a first generation Riviera and would like to share some photos and fitting information?

 

Any help would be much appreciated .

Rodney

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These are Cragar's version of the Astro Supreme. Summit sells the Astro's and I think will ship down under, but you may have better luck with these. Fitment will be the same. Still will need to use the spacers front and rear. Here are a few pictures on a first generation Riviera. Hope this helps.

 

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According to the chart, the "center bore" should be large enough to accommodate the hub on a '63 or '64. Somewhere I think that I read that the diameter of that hub was 3.08" but I can't find where to substantiate this.   If you're having to use a spacer only to clear the rivets on the front hub, you might consider this. ( I've never tried it and I don't know why Buick did it in the first place.)  But, you might consider removing the rivets.  Lots of other cars do not have the front drums riveted to the front hub assembly.*  Perhaps someone who has more experience can tell us.  Or could you have some dimples drilled into the back of the wheels where the rivets would protrude?  Lot's of possibilities, but I'm not the engineer who might know what other problems you might encounter.

 

Ed

 

* A local guy here in KC literally tore up a front drum by trying to beat it off.  He thought, like on his other cars, that the drum would slide off over the studs once the wheel was removed.  He was fairly embarrassed at himself over that then became really pissed when he had to find a new drum and found out how much they cost.

 

 

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Ed, I don't remember for sure, but I think the axle hubs front and rear on my 63 were about 3.3125 +/-. My wheels had 3.08 centers and had to machined to fit the larger axle hubs. I think we went to 3.375 to clear. A spacer front and rear will take care of this and the rivet issue.

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Rodney, one more item you will have trouble with fitting these wheels. Lug studs on the drivers side are left hand thread. You may know this already, but lug bolts are hard to find for 1/2-20 LH thread. Can be done, but just another thing on the Rivieras that are different than the norm.

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I just dug out a couple of intact drum/hub assemblies and measured them.  With the studs still in place, I used a set of outside calipers then measured that spacing with a set of digital calipers.  I came up with 3-7/16" or 3.4375" for the hub.  So Steve is correct, you'll need a spacer or an adapter to mount the Supremes.   Looking at the hub closely and comparing it to a set of '65 drum/hub assemblies that I have, it looks like if you were to remove the rivets, and take the hub to a machine shop, you could have that lip turned off the hub so the hubs would be the same as the 65 and later dimensions.  (But you'd still have the rear axle hub diameter to contend with.) That would still leave the rivet, but as I mentioned above, would not having the drum riveted to the hub present a problem?  If you're going to the trouble to remove the drum from the hub, swap out the LH studs for some RH ones. If I were you and I were having to use a spacer, I'd want to replace the studs with ones that were as much longer as the spacer was wide.

 

Lots of Chrysler products used 1/2 x 20 LH lug nuts.  Try using that as a source when you're ready to buy.  Steve can tell you which kind of seat you'll need, tapered or flat.

 

Ed

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)

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Amazon. Com has some.  I think they have a pretty long shank on them as well, would help make up for the width of the spacer.

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Thanks to you both, pictures and info are excellent.

 

Had measured the hole in the rim and found it to be 3 1/2 inches but forgot about the blankly rivets. And was aware of the LH thread issue also.

 

I will take some time to work all this through and see what transpires. 

 

A few more questions.

 

1. Do I take into consideration the spacer width when determining the amount of back space I need to specify?

 

2. Anything else I need to be aware of if I go with a 7 inch rim and not a six that is the OEM rim fitted?

 

tnx

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And Steelman. Those pictures. Magic and inspirational, even though it may be a bit of head work to get it right, especially from here in Australia.

 

There is a John Cleese quip where he says "Look, it's people like you who cause unrest!"

 

And your pics have just done that! Many thanks.

 

 

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IMHO, depending on the size tire that you're going to run and I'll ASS U ME that you're going with something metric that's considered a replacement, I wouldn't go too wide on the wheel; you sidewalls will look bulged when compared to the width of the tread.  I'd go with a 1/4" spacer and factory back spacing or less to push the wheel away from the chassis.  Then put a 225/75R15 tire on a 6" rim or a 215/75R15 on a 5.5" rim.  But that's me.  WIder wheels/tires relate to handling; but with the Supremes, and I'm assuming white side wall tires, you're going for more of a cruiser look, not a muscle machine.  If you were going to put a 50 or 60 series tire on the car, then I'd go with the 7" rim.  DO you know yet what the effect of the offset will be?

 

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Ed,

 

thank you for  the diagram, that is excellent.

 

Fitted to the original OEM 6 inch rims are P235/75R15 and I now have a set of those with a nice white wall width brand new to put on.

 

On the 6 inch rim they seem to be fine, with a hint of rub on the chassis on full lock but nothing to get excited about.  I have not experienced a rub yet and I have done a few 5 point turns already.

 

When removing them from the rear, you just have to get the axle height right and they come out fine. They seem to to have a good footprint without being overly wide.

 

You are right, looking more at a cruiser style look than muscle car, besides want something different, hence the Riviera.

 

Question. I measured my current 6 inch rim back set at 3.5 inches. Advised that the back set on the Cragar 7 inch rim is 4" on rear and 4" at the front.

 

This is only a 1/2 inch variation and with a 1/4" spacer ( bringing the rim outward) brings it back to only a 1/4" extra at the rear, 3/4" extra at front.

 

Thinking there should be enough clearance at the rear and front at the front hub for this and at the rear as well.

 

I'm trying not to talk myself into this, hence my open questions on this forum. Would be great if a 63 owner with these rims chimed in with blah blah blah.

 

Over to you.

 

 

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If you were to put a wheel with a 4" backspacing with a 1/4" spacer between the wheel mounting surface and the brake drum,  you would in essence be back to the 3-3/4" back spacing of the original wheel.  What you need to check is the offset of the wheel.  Where will the rim on the street side of the car be in relation to the body.  You probably need somewhere between 0 offset and a little negative offset so that the rim on the chassis side will clear all of the suspension components.  Offset takes into consideration both the backspace AND the wheel width.

 

If there's a reputable custom tire / wheel store in you neighborhood, go by and talk with them.  Find one that has a device (like the WheelRite in the attached video) that they can use to show you how different tire and wheel combinations will work on your car.  The attachment is a video that shows how the tool is used.    There are lots of things that the professionals have that we amateurs could only wish for and if we did, things would be a lot easier for us.  A friend of mine in central Kansas took his lowered '65 Riviera to a professional who had such a tool.  He was able to have a set of wheels custom made that fit his car perfectly.  Custom made backspacing, offset, etc.  He had the wheels staggered meaning that the two for the rear are different from the two for the front.  Different sized tires front and rear as well.  They look great.  Hopefully this is helpful.

 

 

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)

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Hi Ed,

thanks for that. I was going to fabricate something similar. I will check the offset on both my wheel and the Cragar.

tnx

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Had it out on Sunday and went to a new children's playground with Jo and her grandson. So while keeping an eye out for Axel having a great time playing I also had an eye out for the Buick parked on the grass.

 

With all the concern over hub sizes, spacers, back space and offset, this is what I decided to run with for a while.

 

Only change will be the white wall tyres will be the same width all round! Hope you like it!

Rodney

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Good choice.  The stylist at Buick knew what they were doing when they made that option available.  If you don't already have them, just make sure that you get the ones that are correct for the year of your car.  There's a difference between the '63 and '64 cover.

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Bump

 

All you guys looking to see what size tire and wheel combinations will work on your car. Read this thread then find a tire store in your area that can measure your car as shown in post #13.

 

Ed

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