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AVS619

Electric Fuel Pumps on Brass-Era Automobiles-Help Needed

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I have purchased a new Zenith to replace the Schebler L on my 1910 IHC J30. I know that I was going to have to make an extension on the intake manifold to fit the Zenith but even with that the drop from the bottom of the fuel tank to the gas inlet on the carburetor will only be about 3 1/4 inches. The problem is the manifolds are on the right side of the engine and the steering box is in the way. I can try to get the Schebler adjusted right but the other solution may be a low pressure fuel electric fuel pump. Does anyone have experience with putting an electric fuel pump on a brass-ear car? There seem to be many low pressure fuel pumps on eBay, most from China. Are these any good? I really could use some advice on this one. I want to go touring soon but want to make sure I do so safely. Thank you. Tom.

Edited by AVS619
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Personally, I don't like putting things like electric fuel pumps on antique automobiles. Properly rebuilt and maintained early technology is usually pretty good.

The big question is, where is the gasoline tank located? IHC motors are usually about the middle of the chassis. A three inch drop from the bottom of the tank to the input of the carburetor should be fine. For comparison, a model T Ford is no more than that and the gasoline tank is located about three feet back towards the rear of the car. They can be trouble climbing hills, but most usual hills are not generally a problem as long as the tank is not nearly empty.

One thing about gravity fuel feed. Gravity rarely stops working (fuel pump failures are very rare!). It is a good idea to have a good shut-off valve in the fuel line for when you park the car (should be able to reach and use it from outside the car). Otherwise, carburetor input valves do sometimes leak and can spill all your gasoline onto the garage/shop floor. Especially not good when there is a water heater or furnace nearby.

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Thank you both for your reply. I am having nothing but trouble with Schebler carburetors, especially the Model L. The car in question, an IHC J-30 with a four cylinder thirty-horse (more or less) power engine had been long stored in a museum. When I received it, it had not run in years. I did get it started a few years ago and it idled very well but there were so many issues that was the last I ran it. The engine was taken out and a new clutch put in among many other mechanical items repaired. Finally got it back together and had it running again. The trouble started when I tried to drive it. It idles well and will accelerate as the throttle is advanced. But, when it is put in gear I loose power, it backfires and stops. I can crank it started again, good idle but same issue. It just will not accept power to drive the car. After talking with other's, including professional carburetor rebuilders, the response was to put the Schebler on the shelf and get a new replacement. So, I did but, due to the design the engine has both manifolds on the drivers side and the steering column and steering box are the way for any addition to the intake manifold, other than maybe another inch. That's is why I thought an electric fuel pump would help. I could simply mount the carburetor on the manifold 'as is' and the fuel pump (the one in mind is only a 2 to 3.5 pressure) would solve the limited drop from the tank to the inlet. Of course, the better solution would be to get the Schelber to work but that seems to be something I can not accomplish and I am the only person around here with a brass-era car so no help is forthcoming. Any suggestions? Tom 

Edited by AVS619
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Are you positive it is a carb problem and not somehow spark or timing related?  My brother and I both run Schebler Model L carbs and have toured a lot with them.  They're pretty simple carbs.  You could try adjusting the spring tension on the air auxiliary valve.  MAybe it's sucking in too much air when you accelerate (or not enough).

 

Model L carbs come with different throat diameters.  Are you sure you have the correct one for your engine?

 

I suggest you mount the Zenith carb without the extension and drive the car on the level with a full tank of gas, assuming the carb is low enough for the fuel flow.  If your problem persists, it's time to look elsewhere.  If it solves your problem then you may want to look into that electric fuel pump, or fiddle with the Schebler a little more.

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Which Zenith are you using?

 

If one of the newer Zeniths, did the supplyer modify the carburetor to work with gravity feed? If not, you will get exactly the symptoms you describe.

 

If one of the newer Zeniths with adjustable main metering jet, how many turns do you have the adjustment needle from seated. It may need more fuel.

 

We sell the new Zeniths, and would be happy to attempt to help you adjust, whether you purchased the carb from us or someone else. 573-392-7378 (9-4 Mon-Tues central time).

 

Jon.

Edited by carbking (see edit history)

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As of yet I have not been able to put the new Zenith on. I need to make an extension of the manifold to try to get the Zenith down a little more. I am familiar with magneto and/or timing problems as I had that situation on a 1909 Regal. Everyone, including tow professional brass-era automobile restorers, though I had a carburetor issue. This one was a Schebler R. The carburetor was rebuilt and still a problem. So we mounted a new Zenith and it broke down on the next tour with many backfires. I finally discovered it was a magneto problem. Someone once told me that carburetor issues are ore often electric issues. But, the mag on the IHC is in good condition and puts out a great spark (I know I touched a spark plug wire while running-really wakes you up) and timing has been checked. I also own an unrestored original 1911 IHC J-30 (now apart) and it has a factory installed Schebler L exactly like the one on the 1910. I do want to tour with this 1910 IHC, it was a great tour car on the 60's and 70's doing HCCA tours, but I need to resolve this carburetor issue. I don't think carburetors, especially Scheblers, like me. This L model is also on my 1912 Buick and 1912 Oakland but both of those are not yet in running order. I look at the Scheblers on them and shudder. Will I have the same problem? Anyway, if you know anything and the Model L and how to adjust it please let me know. I may try to put it back on. I made a new float so perhaps I should give it a try. If any of you live in Wisconsin and know about the Scheblers, I would welcome some on the spot help. I am not too far from Madison. Tom

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You can put a fuel pump on a brass car. A lot of Ford T's have them because there is not much height difference between the fuel tank and carburetor. You need the pump plus a pressure regulator for 1-2 PSI. See this. Type this into Google: "fuel pump mtfca".

 

Phil

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