trickydicky43richard

'39 CHRYSLER Royal, Help please Re horny subject.

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HELP, Can anyone please provide a clear assembly schematic for the plates/spring/parts etc in the steering wheel hub for the Horn.

My repro manual picture is too dark to decipher, hoping you all can help,

Richard in OZ

 

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Ok, so I'll reply to myself to refresh, I have tried a few things but no success. Also I cant figure the electrical circuit? Is the steering column supposed to be electrically insulated from the body.

The horns and relay work all ok it's just the hub horn parts and wiring I cant figure to get operating correctly.

R

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The horn button completes the circuit.    Battery. .horn.. wire up steering column..  contacts under steering wheel  and grounded through the steering column when the button is pressed.

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Hey Rich,

I am not a Chrysler guy, a Chevy guy, and a retired commercial electrician so I will give this a go. What is going on in the steering column: The wire in the column is the ground/earth or return part of the horn relay circuit. The plate that the wire is connected to is insulated from making contact to any other metal until it is depressed, by the horn button or ring. Once pressure is applied the metal will make contact with the rest of the metal in the column completing the circuit, closing the relay and supplying power to the horn(s)

I am not really 100% sure of what information you are seeking, If you need to know how the parts go together in the column I think I can find that out for you. My friend has a 39 Chrysler and I know he has a shop manual somewhere. I have to see him one day this week. I will look at the car and try to see if I get some photo's for you 

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G'Day John,

YES,There is a wire up the middle of the column which connects to a 3 winged brass piece, which screws to insulated bosses in wheel. 

Under this brass "contact" there is a spring  (about 1 3/4"Dia). Now my problem is as soon as I try to place 3 winged plate on top of spring ( Which fits into a large "Contact" washer under the steering wheel nut the horn blows.??

This will be clear as mud.... So in explanation,.. If the 3 wing plate (connected to the centre wire) is in turn placed on top of the spring which in turn is located by a large locating washer under the steering wheel nut then the circuit is straight away competed

( that seems weird) and  I assume why the horn blows immediately) ???  What am I doing wrong??

Rich

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Something is not insulated. The center button should only be grounding out when it is depressed. Make sure the wire that goes though the steering post is not bare and shorting. Including on the bottom end of things. (Or would that be the top side from where we are sitting? As you are the man from the land down under. Maybe that's the problem, you have it together up side down.) ;) Dandy Dave!   

Edited by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

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Can you post the description of 1 to 9 from the book of words.  I am like John348 (not a Chrysler person) but have had dozens of horn contacts apart.  They are all similar so one of the items, perhaps #4 must keep the wire insulated from #5 and #9 until the button is pushed.  It looks straightforward from the diagram unless there is another problem.  A lot can change in 77 years.  Good luck.

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The wire going down the column could be bad after 77 years. You have to test the wire for continuity to ground with it disconnected from the relay. The wire should zero continuity, if it does unplug it from any connections at the column and test it again, if it does the wire in the column could be bad. One conductor DC systems can be very tricky because everyone forgets the "other wire" or the "earth" as it is called in some parts of the world is the metal componants of the vehicle itself. That wire should be clear from steering wheel to the relay, if not then you have to find the brake in the insulation.

Do not remove the wire from the column if it is bad. use that wire to pull a new one in, tape your new wire to it and pull it out then, this way the new wire will be snaked through the column

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If the wire is bad(shorting out) but you need to use the special contact at the top you can purchase for less than 5.00 a piece of electrical shrink tubing that you can slide up the wire and over the lower contact when you have it in position just heat each end with a heat  gun to hold it in place.

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8 hours ago, Tinindian said:

Can you post the description of 1 to 9 from the book of words.  I am like John348 (not a Chrysler person) but have had dozens of horn contacts apart.  They are all similar so one of the items, perhaps #4 must keep the wire insulated from #5 and #9 until the button is pushed.  It looks straightforward from the diagram unless there is another problem.  A lot can change in 77 years.  Good luck.

See attached:

 

IMG_20160519_0003.pdf

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If number 4 is not damaged your problem must be in the wire going down the column.  Provide of course everything is assembled according to the diagram.

The current comes up the cable to the horn button cable contact #3 (it is insulated from the column by #4).  When you press the horn button #1 the circuit is completed and the current goes through #2, #1, #5 and #9 to ground.  Remember that the horn will blow as you depress the button and turn it into place.  As soon as you let it up (locked into place0 the horn should stop and only blow when the button is pressed.

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If you did not get it  to work yet I would take the horn switch apart and with the wire end disconnected or the grounding part of the switch isolated away from any grounded contact the horn should not blow, if it does follow the circuit back to the relay and disconnect it there and see if it still blows. 

 

If you don't want to hear the loud horn while testing it disconnect the horn itself before you start and temporarily connect a headlamp into the circuit so it lights and shine it so it can be seen while you are working at the switch or other area's. Be sure to keep the live contacts / connections on the back of the bulb insulated with electrical or duct  tape since it will be a live circuit. Once you get the light to turn on when pushing the horn button and go off when released you can reconnect your horn and it will work. 

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Hi Everyone ,

Thanks for your input so far, please keep in mind this Chrysler model does not have a simple horn button but a "Blowing" ring.

The way the horn contact/spring, electrical parts etc are depicted in the Workshop Manual, these would

naturally be shorting out.

If any of the readers have a '39 Chrysler manual please see if I am not right.

In frustration I have now invited a local Auto Electrician wizz to come visit ($90 Call out Fee) and see if he can figure the correct assembly and or problem, I will keep you posted after he has been,

Thanks,

 

Edited by trickydicky43richard
grammer (see edit history)

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Ohh Lawdy, If the Swim was not so far. ;) That's enough to pay just to find out you have a spring out of place or something similar. :blink: And for that price, He better find it, or at least be able to tell you what you are lacking to fix it.  Dandy Dave! 

Edited by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

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All the shop manuals, line drawings and wiring diagrams in the world can't replace the experienced eye and when you can't see what's wrong someone who looks at this kind of thing all day long usually can. If the bloke who shows up is an electrical whizz and a gentleman, he will have your problem spotted in the first few minutes and he will spend some time looking at the rest of the wiring to make sure you feel like you got your moneys worth.

 

$90 is $90 and it really doesn't matter that the down under Aussie dollar is .7 something of the US dollar, when $90 comes out of your pocket it may only be $65 US, but it's still $90 out of your pocket and sometimes it's worth spending the money. I put  the exchange rate in for the Yanks on my side of the pond, as spending $65 sound so much better than spending $90.

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An Update, My well regarded (and expensive) Auto Electrician has been and after 2 hours couldn't figure out the problem either.

He does agree if you follow the workshop manual assembly pic (page 54) then it will be continually short circuited.

He has gone back to his workshop to ponder the solution.

He has asked if any one can provide a clear exploded view of the Horn Ring, contacts hub assy etc?

Back soon.

R

Edited by trickydicky43richard
better info (see edit history)

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Richard;

 

Do you have a shop manual for the 1939 Plymouth?  If not, here is a link to one available for viewing on line:  http://www.pwchryslerclub.org/PlymouthManual_OCR.pdf   See Figure 3, "Horn Blowing Ring Disassembled", on page 182.  The illustrations aren't as clear as I would like; however, it does show you how the parts are "stacked" together.   See page 181, Section 4, "Removal of Horn Button (With Blowing Ring), 1939-42, for information on how to disassemble the horn apparatus of the steering wheel.

 

Of course I wasn't there for your horn apparatus diagnostic session with the "Auto Electrician wiz", but assuming that the appropriate manuals were available,  I'm somewhat puzzled by his/her inability to diagnose your horn problem.  Personally, I would ask for my $90 back.  Sheesh, it only involves one wire!:P

 

Good luck,

Grog

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