1953 Buick Super torque ball leak mystery

[Buford]

One of the winter projects on my '53 was the replacement of the broken transmission thrust pad and mounting pad. I had to use a come-a-long to pull the drive train forward slightly so the trans mounting pad bolt holes would line up. With that completed, I then discovered that both engine mounts were broken too and began the replacement of those. I had to use a come-a-long again, and a bigger one, to pull the drive train forward a little more to get the motor mount holes aligned. Before all of this mount replacement, the only transmission leak at the torque ball was the usual drip that posed no real problem. Now however, with all this (and other) work done, my first attempt to start the car after five months yielded a 10 inch wide puddle of trans fluid on the floor and that was with the engine not actually starting yet (gas not getting to the carb yet for some reason). The fluid appears to be coming out the back of the outer retainer. Today I took off the thrust plate, unbolted and slid back the outer retainer and cleaned the mating surfaces where it all bolts together. Then sliding the outer retainer back over the torque ball and with just metal to metal surfaces, there is wiggle room between the two where it should be sealing at the bonded rubber lip. No wonder it coughed out trans fluid. But what changed? Could the pressure from the come-a-long have pushed the torque ball forward slightly into the back of the trans? I was pulling from the differential forward. And what could be the fix now? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Edited May 7, 2016 by Buford (see edit history)

[Guest]

Greetings 

            The only way I could think of that might cause what happened is the cast steel torque ball pressing so hard against the inner retainer that it actually compressed that stamped steel inner dome enough to create space at the vulcanized seal for fluid to pass, but with the strength of those shapes it seems inconceivable that could happen. Knock on wood, I don't like to rule things out(never say never)! If you inspect the inner retainer closely, I think you might see a slight groove where the heavy cast steel torque ball outer cirumference would press against the inner retainer causing it to be bent in. The other thing you may want to check is the rubber seal that's vulcanized to the edge of the hole in the outer retainer to see if it came loose even partially or split or cracked. Good luck! Like to know what's found out about this occurrence if you do solve it!

[buick5563]

I came up with a really long answer and then erased it. Short version. Change your torque ball retainer with a revulcanized one from Bob's Automobilia. That will fix it. Torque balls at rest are happy. 

[old-tank]

Now that the rubber on the outer torque ball retainer has had time to recover, there is a chance it will be ok  if you just put it back together.  If not, change it.

[Buford]

I appreciate you guys weighing in about my problem. I was really pulling for Old Tank's suggestion to be the easy answer but it wasn't to be and the rubber seal in the outer retainer is still firmly in place so that's not the problem. I ordered a new torque ball retainer seal kit this morning and tomorrow will pull back the differential and torque tube hopefully with little or no problem and then I'll be able to inspect the torque ball and inner retainer. I'm told sometimes the torque tube can be pulled back without disconnecting the springs and shocks and sometimes you can't. I have disconnected the emergency brake cable and brake line already so I'll see how it goes and give you an update. 

[Guest kimestork]

I have just replaced the outer torque ball retainer kit & etc. on my '51 Riviera and cannot see how it would be possible to do the job without totally removing the rear axle assembly which, with some planning, is not really all that difficult or time consuming. Here are your next steps:

 

Disconnect torque tube from torque ball by removing bolts at flange.

 

Disconnect links from shock absorber arms.

 

With the weight of the vehicle still on the wheels (or axle jacked way up), disconnect the radius rod (panhard bar) at right end. (After disconnecting, pull the the right hand side of radius rod towards rear of car just enough to clear the spring, and then lift it as high as it will go. Tie with cord to frame so as to keep it out of the way when pulling axle backwards).

 
Disconnect lower ends of rear springs. On Series 40 the attaching studs have right hand threads, but on Series 50-70, the attaching bolts have left hand threads. **** Watch for this! Mine were stripped by the last guy who couldn't tell left from right and so I had to replace them.

I recommend that pulling the axle back is a two man job. One guy at the front to lift and wiggle drive shaft and the other guy operating a trolley jack placed under the differential to find the "sweet spot" where splines on drive shaft slide smoothly. The guy at the back then pulls on the jack to move assembly to the rear. 

 

As for the cause of your problem, I would tend to agree with 2carb40. Looking at a sectional diagram of the transmission, there is probably enough slack or play to where the forward pressure you exerted could have caused the inner section of the torque ball to distort the inner retainer enough to cause the leak.   

 

Like the other guys, I'll be interested to know how it goes.

 

Peter

Edited May 11, 2016 by kimestork (see edit history)

[Guest Straight eight]

Change of subject.  Has anyone tried the new pressure plate and disc from Bob's Automobilia for 1947 Super?  I ask strictly because this is a new product, and I have purchased one of each and could probably benefit from someones experience who has installed this reproduction set.  thank you.  Cliff

Edited May 10, 2016 by Straight eight
correction (see edit history)

[Buford]

Thanks Peter for your step by step instructions. They certainly helped. I've inspected the torque ball and inner retainer and can find no compromised area on the inner retainer. The only thing I wonder about is the position of the bronze bushing in the torque ball. It protrudes forward into the concave area about 7/16" (see picture) rather than being flush with the surface. Is this correct? It just doesn't look right even though I wouldn't think it would have anything to do with the leak. I don't want to put it back together until someone can verify the bushing position. As for the outer retainer, the rubber ring is noticeably more substantial in the new retainer. It looks like it would take care of my leak problem even if I never pin down the cause.

[Buford]

Got everything buttoned up and no leaks. What I now think was the reason for the mysterious leak was not replacing the shims between the thrust mount pad and the crossmember when I put in the new thrust mount pad. There were two shims when I took it apart but there didn't seem to be a space for them with the new thrust mount pad so I left them out when I shouldn't have. I think the lack of shims distorted the torque ball outer retainer just enough to leak.

 

Thanks for everybody's input.

 

Alan