1924 Buick model and production number

[Guest marage95]

I have a 1924 (I think) Buick 2 door sedan that I am trying to get information on. I would like to find out what model the Buick is, how many was produced, and a good place to get parts for it. the VIN is 1317140. Also, what book or website ca I go too to find this information.  Thanks

[jscheib]

First,

 

I would suggest you repost on the Pre War section of this forum. Does the car not have a tag on the engine side of the firewall?  If so, this will give you some information that will help.  Where did you get the VIN number?  That isusually on the frame near either front wheel, depending on the age of the car.

 

John

[MrEarl]

moved it for him and left a redirect John

[Hubert_25-25]

The frame tag is in the left front wheel opening behind the front brake cable.  The engine number is on the drivers side of the engine near the oil pan.  Nice if you can provide both numbers.  By the way, look in the Buick Buy and Sell area.  Parts are scarce for all these old buicks.  See the link.  Here is someone wanting to find a home for the entire drive train for a 1924 4 cylinder. He is not wanting much for it.  Bobs Automobilia is a good source for new parts.   Hugh

 

 

 

[Guest marage95]

Thanks everyone for your input. I got the VIN from the title but will verify it with the engine number. 

[ROD W]

That number fits into the 1925 numbers for both the Master and Standard cars.  Both the Master and the standard came out in a 2 door coach.  The standard has a 114" wheel base ,  and the master  has a 120" and 128" wheel base.  Here is a pic of a Master engine.  If your top radiator hose runs into the front of the head it is a Standard.

[Pete Phillips]

Rod W, what a nice photo of an immaculate engine compartment! Having restored a 1924 model 44, and having judged at many BCA national meets, I can say that this engine compartment would have a perfect score if I were judging it for correctness.  VERY nice!

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

Leonard, Texas

[jscheib]

4 hours ago, marage95 said:

4 hours ago, marage95 said:

Thanks everyone for your input. I got the VIN from the title but will verify it with the engine number. 

Thanks everyone for your input. I got the VIN from the title but will verify it with the engine number. 

 The VIN is usually the frame number, not the engine number.

 

John

[Hubert_25-25]

Many states (like Texas) used the engine number for titles in the early years.  They even do not allow you to change to the chassis number even when applying for a modern title.  The old titles even as far back as my 1963 title said "engine or chassis number".   All the new titles say "VIN" number. 

 

We definitely need to know which location the number came from.   

Hugh

[Guest marage95]

Ok, the Buick is a 1925 Buick Master Six Coach; not a 1924 which is on the title. I will need to go to the tag agency to have it changed.

Thanks guys for your help, I really appreciate it.

[nzcarnerd]

Of course we all know it is not a "VIN" number as that description only applies to those long internationally recognised number/letter codes used since the 1980s.  Prior to that it is a either a serial number or chassis number.   As was rightly pointed out in the US many cars were titled by their engine number as some cars had no chassis number (eg Cadillac) or else it was too hard for the registration clerk to find because it was underneath somewhere.  Just my 2 cents worth.

[ROD W]

Here,s a 1925 master  128" w/b on Sacramento CL   $500

[ROD W]

If your engine has a round inlet manifold it is 1925,  If it has a square inlet manifold it is  a 1924 .  This is a pic of a 1924 master or to be technically  correct a 1924 six as they did not have designations of Master and Standard in 1924

[ROD W]

Engine and serial numbers

[hwellens]

Quote

Attached is a little more detail on the serial numbers. Based on your serial number, as stated by others, you have 1925 Master six, Model 25-40.

 

Buick serial numbers.pdf

[dibarlaw]

Rod:

Thanks for the photo. Such a shame It looks like it was a model 54 Sport Roadster. If my son (who drives flat bed out to the region) could only drag it home for me!

Edited April 29, 2016 by dibarlaw (see edit history)

[Leif Holmberg]

hwellens,do you have 1927 Buick serial numbers.pdf too,should be pleased if you could show it here.Thanks in advance.

Leif in Sweden.

[hwellens]

55 minutes ago, Leif Holmberg said:

hwellens,do you have 1927 Buick serial numbers.pdf too,should be pleased if you could show it here.Thanks in advance.

Leif in Sweden.

That book was printed in 1926. The only other information I have on Buick serial numbers is attached:

 

[Brian_Heil]

This thread has given me some ideas.  (I know, how did it feel?)

 

1,000,000th Buick was produced March 21, 1923.  Engine numbers were used to track total volume back then and not vehicle serial number. 

 

My engine, assuming it is original to my vehicle, is 998,878 or 1,122 shy of being the 1 millionth vehicle for Buick.

 

Buick was #3 in total sales for 1923 (a very good year) so I am going to guess, to hit the total Buick volume of 210,557 (all models) they were working 6 days a week.

 

Total production of my Model 45 is 45,274 for the year.  Guess at 305 working days.  45,274/305 = 148 day @ 6 days a week.  And lets assume they built them at a regular pace and not in batches.  The reality is they most likely built them in batches but stick with me anyway.

 

So how many days to make 1,122 and get to March 21st?  1122/148 = 7.6 days.

 

March 21st, 1923 was a Wednesday, so going backwards 7.6 days and not working that Sunday the 18th puts me at Monday, March 12th, 1923 as an educated guess.

 

Now if you have stuck with me this long, here's a bit more history.  When Buick hit #1,000,000 they moved the rear tail light from the left side of the license plate cross bar to the center.  Don't ask me why, but they did.  So, if you follow an old Buick, you can look at the position of the tail light and know when it was built, well sort of.

[Terry Wiegand]

Brian, where did you run across that piece of information about the tail light and the one millionth car?  That sounds like something that the late Dave Chambers would have uncovered.  Your talking about the plant running 6 days a week is something that I have wondered about for a long time.  Do you think that they ran shifts around the clock?  Let's just suppose that the factory was assembling on a 10 hour shift.  That's just shy of 15 automobiles per hour or roughly one every 4 minutes.  Foundry operations and heat treating processes are two areas that demand the necessary time to complete.  I would think that the assembly operations could outrun the component parts production very easily.  What I wouldn't give to be able to go back in time and walk through that plant and watch how things were being done and all without computer assisted machining.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

[ROD W]

Marage 95,  As you can see from the above list from hwellens,  1925 Model production started in July 1924.  So your title is probably correct 

[hwellens]

Here are a couple more pages on Buick from the same Red Book:

 

[27donb]

On 4/26/2016 at 0:33 PM, marage95 said:

Ok, the Buick is a 1925 Buick Master Six Coach; not a 1924 which is on the title. I will need to go to the tag agency to have it changed.

Thanks guys for your help, I really appreciate it.

 

 

1 hour ago, ROD W said:

Marage 95,  As you can see from the above list from hwellens,  1925 Model production started in July 1924.  So your title is probably correct 

 

A Buick with 1925 features is a 1925 Model, even if it was produced in 1924.

 

For example, my 27-54CC came off the line in December 1926, but on the title the car is a 1927 Model.  There were no Convertible Coupes offered in 1926.

[hwellens]

3 minutes ago, 27donb said:

 

 

A Buick with 1925 features is a 1925 Model, even if it was produced in 1924.

 

For example, my 27-54CC came off the line in December 1926, but on the title the car is a 1927 Model.  There were no Convertible Coupes offered in 1926.

What you say is true when the car is shown for example at an AACA national meet, but, some states titled the car based on year sold. I have a 1930 Model Chrysler that was sold in August of 1929 and is titled a 1929. I show it as a 1930.

[dibarlaw]

Great Information. Interesting that the 1925-25S Sport Touring is only a $12.00 appraisal in 1931. Also in 1931 even the 1931 90 series cars are appraised to about half of list sale price. The 7 passenger Limo. 90L lists at $2035 and appraises at $1035.

 If the next page was there it may show that my 1925-25 may only be $10.00! Looks as though roadsters appraised at a bit more. Of course that was the dealers allowance. They would probably ask $30.00 on the lot

 Buy a new Buick and pay $28,000 and then try to sell a month later and only get $14,000. The dealers would love that!

[nzcarnerd]

On ‎29‎/‎04‎/‎2016 at 6:57 AM, Terry Wiegand said:

Brian, where did you run across that piece of information about the tail light and the one millionth car?  That sounds like something that the late Dave Chambers would have uncovered.  Your talking about the plant running 6 days a week is something that I have wondered about for a long time.  Do you think that they ran shifts around the clock?  Let's just suppose that the factory was assembling on a 10 hour shift.  That's just shy of 15 automobiles per hour or roughly one every 4 minutes.  Foundry operations and heat treating processes are two areas that demand the necessary time to complete.  I would think that the assembly operations could outrun the component parts production very easily.  What I wouldn't give to be able to go back in time and walk through that plant and watch how things were being done and all without computer assisted machining.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

Another part of the process that took time was the painting. I don't know the exact times required but until the introduction of Duco in 1924, the painting process was the biggest hold up un the building of cars.

[Brian_Heil]

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 2:57 PM, Terry Wiegand said:

Brian, where did you run across that piece of information about the tail light and the one millionth car?  That sounds like something that the late Dave Chambers would have uncovered.  Your talking about the plant running 6 days a week is something that I have wondered about for a long time.  Do you think that they ran shifts around the clock?  Let's just suppose that the factory was assembling on a 10 hour shift.  That's just shy of 15 automobiles per hour or roughly one every 4 minutes.  Foundry operations and heat treating processes are two areas that demand the necessary time to complete.  I would think that the assembly operations could outrun the component parts production very easily.  What I wouldn't give to be able to go back in time and walk through that plant and watch how things were being done and all without computer assisted machining.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

 

 You are correct sir, a Dave Chambers article I read some years ago.  He had amazing detail/data.

 

I'm guessing Buick ran around the clock 6 days/week assembly, and the foundry 7 days, since that's the way you run a foundry.

 

I will ask Kevin K. and see if he has any info. on what they ran.

 

 

[Brian_Heil]

By the way, on the General Buick Forum there is a 1920's chassis pic we need help identifying.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Brian_Heil (see edit history)