Bill Harmatuk

1930 Chrysler Wheel Cylinders

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After searching on the AACA forum about copper crush washers for the banjo fittings on my brake cylinders and the common cause of leaking brakes, I did a little inspection on my rebuilt and re-sleaved, wheel cylinders. (1930 Chrysler CJ-6)

To my GREAT dismay...... The seats on the brake cylinder for the bleeder valve to seal against, are cut all to, well, heck. There is no way they won't leak. There is no smooth seat for the hardened bleeder seat to make contact with when bleeding the brakes.

 

I have already contacted the rebuilding company. No answer yet. It is one of the most common rebuild / re-sleaving companies. 340.00 worth of parts and labor, for the cylinders alone.

I asked them if they could cut new seats, also.

 

A Question.

I found a new set of wheel cylinders but they are stepped. The originals are 1 1/4 bore end to end. The replacements are 1 1/4 and 1 3/8 bore.

What difference would the one smaller diameter, 1/8 of an inch, make and how should the smaller bore be orientated on the backing plate.??  

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That was quick. ! !

The company called and said to send the brake cylinders back. 

They will make it right. Re-machine the seats. 

 

A PLUS for Apple Hydraulics. You don't see that kind of CUSTOMER SERVICE any more.

I wasn't going to use their name I'm Happy.

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On 4/4/2016 at 3:34 PM, Bill Harmatuk said:

Those guys  (Applied Hydraulics) are VERY good to work with.  One major issue I have is dis-similar metals.  My wheel cylinders were all sleeved with stainless steel (SS).  The pistons in them were all Aluminum (AL).  Turns out if you don't use the vehicle much, within a few months the wheel cylinders are stuck, because if corrosion.  This is  a major issue between raw AL and SS. This is exactly why a lot more stainless is not used in modern vehicles today.   I'm looking in to a solution for this.  I hope you do not have the same problem.  I wish Applied Hydraulics would have warned me about this .   

 

 

That was quick. ! !

The company called and said to send the brake cylinders back. 

They will make it right. Re-machine the seats. 

 

A PLUS for Apple Hydraulics. You don't see that kind of CUSTOMER SERVICE any more.

I wasn't going to use their name I'm Happy.

 

Edited by VW4X4 (see edit history)
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17 hours ago, VW4X4 said:

 

 Your solution is as easy as picking up some "brake assembly lube" at an autoparts store, or ordered online (don't use "brake rubber parts lube", or "brake grease" inside the pistons).  Either EIS, Permatex, or Bendix brand.  Clean the cylinder bores and the pistons.

 

NEVER use an abrasive on the pistons. The grit will imbed in the aluminum and score the polished bore of the sleeves. Use steel wool to clean off all aluminum oxide corrosion.

 

Completely coat the bores and pistons with the assembly lube and put them back together.  

 

Also clean and coat even NOS, and new cylinders that are not sleeved to prevent them from corroding.

 

Paul 

Edited by PFitz (see edit history)

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51 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

Is Permatex Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube (Synthetic) suitable? It is one I can find readily here.

 

If you look it up on Permatex's website you'll see that they only recommended the Ultra for disc brake caliper pins and slides (external use). Does not say it can be used for cylinder pistons and bores (internal use).  So, I can't say it's the same as brake assembly lube, which is  meant to be used inside the cylinders because it is compatible with brake fluid.

 

But that doesn't necessarily rule out the Ultra, either. A call to the Permatex tech line might get you more info on if it can and can't be used inside the cylinders ???

 

I've only used the EIS brand.   So I can't speak to the performance of other brands, except they come up when searching for brake assembly lube.

 

BTW, Centric is another brand that comes up.

 

Notice I purposely used the word "brake" because brake assembly lube is not the same as engine assembly lube, which should NEVER be used in brake systems.

 

Paul

Edited by PFitz (see edit history)

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I have been using Dielectric grease as an assembly lube for over 20 years with regular DOT 3 fluid or DOT 5 Silicone fluid. I have had no problems with one I did in 1991 a 1948 Chrysler that I used DOT 5 fluid in and which I still own.

Larry

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So did you find a supplier of the original internally notched copper crush washers?  I need 4 of them for the banjo nuts.  Also looking for original style LONG bleeder screws.  28 Model 72 with first series Wagner Lockheed brakes  I was thinking of making a set of the washers out of some pre 1982 copper pennies.

Edited by a sell
Added one word (see edit history)

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NAPA Auto Parts has the crush washers you need. Bring the 2 different sizes to the store and they can match them or order them.

John Kieser gave instructions on annealing the washers to make them softer. A search might find how he heated the washers .... then dropped them in oil.

I was hard headed and didn't do anything to my copper washers. I'm using silicone brake fluid and no leaks. 

I'll find my original bleeder valves and take a picture. 

 

Bill H

 

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I made bleeder valves, if that is what you call the piece that screws in in place of the wee bolt. I used a longer bolt, drilled right through it in the lathe and soldered in a short length of brake tube with a double flare on the end.

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I originally used Permatex Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube (Synthetic) on my 1929 827 Graham-Paige did exactly as directed, cleaned and lubed all moving parts.  It has been 8 years now, I put about 500 miles a year on the car.  Breaks still work great!  Everything else I used would start to stick after one winter.  I would not do a break job without using the Synthetic caliper lube.  The next I might try synthetic fluid also to avoid moisture issues.

 

Make sure you get the equivalent "woven asbestos" brake lining, same coefficient of friction as OEM.  If your car won't lock up the wheels, it is not right.

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The seat for the bleeder valve....(part of the brake cylinder), internal to the threaded bleeder valve hole, is cut to death, screwed up, pitted, almost gone.... from / by,  some one that thought he / she was doing a good job cleaning all 4 brake cylinders. The bleeder will not seat, to the internal seat. There is no machined face left.

Bought 4 new cylinders.

Lubed with synthetic grease.

Everything new.

Bigger shoe towards front.

Synthetic fluid from Cartel.

I have great brakes.

 

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