Jump to content

Can someone help me with the value of this part?


Guest damcar
 Share

Recommended Posts

Guest damcar

ResizedImage_1459373055782.jpgI recently acquired this front grille from what I believe is a 1903 Clement (not sure if that's the correct year). I really know nothing about these cars or how much parts sell for. I haven't been able to find any info online. The wooden base was attached to it so it could be displayed but can be removed. I have no need for this part and would like to sell it to someone who can use it. What would be a fair price to ask for it? Any help would be appreciated.ResizedImage_1459373004728.jpg

ResizedImage_1459373092150-1.jpg

Edited by damcar (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Prewar-car is probably a better site. It is much more "hard core" prewar collector oriented than ebay. And more Europe, England oriented which is where a possible survivor is most likely to be located.

  The big question is there a surviving car out there that actually needs it ? Or for that mater a surviving car that the owner might want your rad for a spare.  Other than that it is a decorative item; still of quite a bit of value, but almost certainly less value than to someone who actually needs it.

  What's it worth ? good question. What would a new one cost today, probably close to $5000.00 {I might be out of touch, possibly closer to $10,000 these days}.  A decent used original that probably needs a re-core is probably worth at least 1/2 that to a person who owns the car.  As a display item perhaps half of that.  Just an opinion!

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you put it on Ebay be sure to set a reserve. As the above posters said, if someone needs it, it could be of significant value. But unless two people really need it and unless both of them happen to see it on Ebay you might wind up selling it to a speculator for much less. Of course, if no one needs it for a restoration or you don't find that person it's worth whatever Ebay brings.

 

Rarity often adds value but also limits the number of people interested in it.

 

Don

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pretty cool decoration piece.  Reminds me of some of the great hood ornament collections I've see in various museums and car collections. The fact that it's mounted on such a pretty radiator adds to it's appeal as a display item, but the price range suggested seems high to me.  Then again it's not what I collect.  Thanks for sharing it with us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's conceivable this attached photo of a 1914_Talbot_4CBX_Tourer might have a radiator like yours.

 "The Encyclopedia of the world's autos" by D.B. Wise defines that "All-British Clements were built in Coventry from 1908 to 1914."

The Encyclopedia also states: "After the foundation of Clement-Talbot, Clement-Gladiators were sold under the "Clement" name in Britain."    

Clement, Clemant-Bayards were also built and sold in France 1898 - 1922, but  It's not clear to me what or if there was any relationship to UK Clements. 

 

I'd suggest if you can get into this UK web site you'll get a good definition of what you have:    http://www.svvs.org/help80.shtml

1914_Talbot_4CBX_Tourer.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As far as suggested value I always start out looking at what it would cost to replicate .If a person is involved with brass era cars long enough they will generally realize that rad's. are a real problem. Many of these cars were derelict at some point in their existence, and that big hunk of brass was often a far too tempting a target for some quick cash at the local scrap man. Even if they survive age and old damage often makes major repairs a requirement. I am certainly not a rad expert , but I am aware of a few recent prices for early rad. recreation. Roughly $8000,00.00 for a re-core on a complex American classic.   And a couple of others in roughly the same price range.  Rad work isn't cheap, particularly on early cell type cores.

 drwatson is probably on the right  track with British produced Clements being in the 1908- 1914 time span. And yes, the svvs is a tremendous site.  One way or another it's still going to be a pretty rare / possibly in demand rad. The RAC mascot if original ,not a reproduction is also of some value.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with ebay over prewar. While prewar might be more "hardcore" as to it's audience, one cannot beat the millions of viewing audience on ebay. As previously stated, this has a 99% chance of going to a brass car collector for show rather then use. So ebay with a reserve of the minimum you must have for it............................

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree with Bob. It is nice, but not $5,000 nice unless it is the last part someone needs to get theirs going providing it does not leak, and is not plugged. Even at that, if one person needs it in the world, and knowing the Brass is old and over time it becomes brittle. A newly reproduced radiator would be good for many years where an original may fail just form age and fatigue. Dandy Dave! 

Edited by Dandy Dave (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Dave and others , I must have worded my initial post poorly. I wasn't suggesting the rad is worth $5000.00, I said a new rad would be in the $5000.00 up ballpark.  To the right person about  1/2 of that or $2000.00-$2500.00 and as a display piece about 1/2 as much as that or $1000.00- $1500.00.  Sorry for the misconception. I dislike throwing out prices, however the original post states the new owner has no idea of the rad's value and I felt an opinion couldn't hurt.

  There are a substantial number of Clements out there; but of course very few in North America, so I think there is a good chance someone would want it for a car rather than a decoration. And it would be very hard for a rad. specialist to recreate something like this without an original to work from , so it still has value to someone piecing together a Clement  even if it is past being serviceable.

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can make a guess who rode with that on his radiator cap.  Jim Foyle,  of The Garage,  Piltown,  Co. Kilkenney, Ireland  had a Clement of that age which he liked to take on the commemoration London to Brighton runs in England .       In the early 1960s, I received a letter from Jim, who was attempting to restore what then seemed to be the only known Tipo 510 FIAT left outside Australia and New Zealand.  He has no timing gears, and was unable to get new ones made without engineering drawings.  I wrote back that I could help him; but that he should not hold his breath because I could not immediately get home to pull what he needed from the damaged engine of a parts care.  In due course I posted the bits to him.   (  The 510 FIAT is a very well-made car, which cost about the same here at the time as a 1923 Cadillac.  Vittorio Jano's signature is on engineering drawings for it.   Then another letter came from Jim, wanting to know what he owed me.   I replied that it was just an inexpensive favour; and that what you do with favours is help someone else who has a problem.   After a while a big parcel came for me, with a Waterford crystal whisky decanter and 6 glasses, which still have their little stickers on them.

Now my mother was a teacher, and in the early 1930s she spent a while as an exchange teacher with the London County Council.  She said that some children still lived in houses with dirt floors.   She visited Ireland then and now she was taking a trip to England, she wanted to visit Ireland again.  I told her to phone Jim .  He met her at the airport, and closed his workshop for 8 days while he drove about 1100miles to visit everything a tourist might want to see.  And he would not let her spend a penny of her money.         Some years later, my friend Bill Orde was trying to restore a 3 litre Bentley from a collection of parts.   One chap near Dublin had a lot of what was needed, and Jim was only too happy to inspect it, report back, pass on the payment, and organise shipping.    That, and two other lots of Bentley parts in England, were located through Robin Morris, who came here one day as a backpacker.   I fixed the ignition problem in his "Rent a Bomb", he had a meal with us; and after he had a look at the cars and the workshop,  I took him for a ten mile ride in the 1918 Mercer.

Robin's brother had a business working on ( W.O.) Bentleys, who located the available parts; which enabled Bill and two other owners to restore their cars.   When Jim and some of his friends came to Australia in 1988, they drove two of Bill Orde's early Italas  in the F.I.V.A. Rally.   And Jim brought stacks of presents for everyone, including another Waterford drinking set for Bill Orde.  All up, he enjoyed paying a lot for those bits that  I gave him from that parts car at Barellan, for which I paid a 100lb sack of new season potatoes, which cost me two quid.    Recently I was asked how much I wanted for remains of a couple of incomplete chassis which could never be used to restore a car.  I told Doug that they could be worth a million dollars, or nothing:  As far as I am concerned, goodwill is always worth more than money.  So I get a warrantee refill of the apple box with second apples from his orchard/coolstore/packing shed whenever we run out.  Doug has built a stunning FIAT-based racing special for "Historic Racing "at Phillip Island and at Winton, and I have helped him significantly with that, too.     Jim Foyle is gone, and I believe his car collection is all dispersed.  How the radiator and RAC badge have been separated from his Clement I cannot imagine, (if that was his).

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ivan, you are a true gentleman.  I wish all of my "transactions " involving old car parts could be conducted along similar lines. Unfortunately in my experience people with parts I wish to acquire  are generally quite mercenary. And as I am just a middle class working stiff I usually have to give in to mercenary concerns when I sell parts. It's a vicious cycle of ever escalating costs where I am as often as not at a disadvantage. I definitely like your way better.

Greg in Canada

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ivan

 

I don't think I've ever read a post from you that I haven't thoroughly enjoyed but this has to be one of my favourites.

A perfect answer within a great story.

Not that I haven't found myself in Greg's position from time to time.

 

Brad

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Ivan Saxton said:

I can make a guess who rode with that on his radiator cap.  Jim Foyle,  of The Garage,  Piltown,  Co. Kilkenney, Ireland  had a Clement of that age which he liked to take on the commemoration London to Brighton runs in England .       In the early 1960s, I received a letter from Jim, who was attempting to restore what then seemed to be the only known Tipo 510 FIAT left outside Australia and New Zealand.  He has no timing gears, and was unable to get new ones made without engineering drawings.  I wrote back that I could help him; but that he should not hold his breath because I could not immediately get home to pull what he needed from the damaged engine of a parts care.  In due course I posted the bits to him.   (  The 510 FIAT is a very well-made car, which cost about the same here at the time as a 1923 Cadillac.  Vittorio Jano's signature is on engineering drawings for it.   Then another letter came from Jim, wanting to know what he owed me.   I replied that it was just an inexpensive favour; and that what you do with favours is help someone else who has a problem.   After a while a big parcel came for me, with a Waterford crystal whisky decanter and 6 glasses, which still have their little stickers on them.

Now my mother was a teacher, and in the early 1930s she spent a while as an exchange teacher with the London County Council.  She said that some children still lived in houses with dirt floors.   She visited Ireland then and now she was taking a trip to England, she wanted to visit Ireland again.  I told her to phone Jim .  He met her at the airport, and closed his workshop for 8 days while he drove about 1100miles to visit everything a tourist might want to see.  And he would not let her spend a penny of her money.         Some years later, my friend Bill Orde was trying to restore a 3 litre Bentley from a collection of parts.   One chap near Dublin had a lot of what was needed, and Jim was only too happy to inspect it, report back, pass on the payment, and organise shipping.    That, and two other lots of Bentley parts in England, were located through Robin Morris, who came here one day as a backpacker.   I fixed the ignition problem in his "Rent a Bomb", he had a meal with us; and after he had a look at the cars and the workshop,  I took him for a ten mile ride in the 1918 Mercer.

Robin's brother had a business working on ( W.O.) Bentleys, who located the available parts; which enabled Bill and two other owners to restore their cars.   When Jim and some of his friends came to Australia in 1988, they drove two of Bill Orde's early Italas  in the F.I.V.A. Rally.   And Jim brought stacks of presents for everyone, including another Waterford drinking set for Bill Orde.  All up, he enjoyed paying a lot for those bits that  I gave him from that parts car at Barellan, for which I paid a 100lb sack of new season potatoes, which cost me two quid.    Recently I was asked how much I wanted for remains of a couple of incomplete chassis which could never be used to restore a car.  I told Doug that they could be worth a million dollars, or nothing:  As far as I am concerned, goodwill is always worth more than money.  So I get a warrantee refill of the apple box with second apples from his orchard/coolstore/packing shed whenever we run out.  Doug has built a stunning FIAT-based racing special for "Historic Racing "at Phillip Island and at Winton, and I have helped him significantly with that, too.     Jim Foyle is gone, and I believe his car collection is all dispersed.  How the radiator and RAC badge have been separated from his Clement I cannot imagine, (if that was his).

I also helped a fellow out in the same manner  that I had never meet and received an expensive bottle of fine whiskey rather than a decanter. But then again you have a fine decanter and I have no whiskey.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...