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Beemon

1956 322 Dual Quads or EFI?

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In my spare time, I do some video game work as a hobby. It kind of helps me to keep up with CAD work since there was only one class offered at the college. I came up with this mock-up design for a remote vacuum switch, very rough draft.

 

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As I progress, the body of the unit should mount any 1956 starter switch housing. I want to at some point make all of the parts for it using the 3D printer in the lab, the resin paste is good up to 600*, which is more than enough to resist melting from a hot engine. A hole would be drilled in the front for a vacuum fitting to pull the ball up into the upper channel while the lower channel would be vented. A seat will be made for an O-ring to seal the ball against. The lever shaft, since actuated with the throttle arm originally on the carburetor, would be actuated by a clevis with an adjustable linkage. I'm thinking it would mount on the rear carburetor stud closes to the throttle linkage so it can be tied to the throttle linkage on the carburetor directly. This setup would allow anyone who has a faulty switch or a new carburetor to have a gas pedal start. I really think there would be a market for this, probably only for non-purist cars and street rodders.

 

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Edited by Beemon (see edit history)
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The original Bendix ElectroJector unit was prototyped in a Buick V-8 (unit in the front floorboard, as a I understand it, with vacuum tubes).  So it might be interesting to see what it might take to adapt a Rochester RamJet  (NOT what's now sold as "RamJet") fuel injection system from a '65 Corvette 327 to a Nailhead Buick V-8.  BUT other than the basic architectural adaptations, finding somebody to calibrate it for the Buick's fuel curve might be problematic.  And they were worth only 10 horsepower (factory rating) than a 700+ cfm Holley carb.  Although I have read of some which got 20+mpg with a 4.56 gear, on the highway (but some Corvettes tended to get better mpg due to their aerodynamics).  I've got an old Peterson book on Chevy performance, from about 1962, which explained that system, in detail, but I never did read that chapter.  A good carburetion/manifold combination, well-finessed, can be had much less expensively and something that more people can work on and understand.

 

Key thing is manifolding mixture distribution and such, PLUS keeping the atomized fuel/air mixture "in suspension" as it travels into the combustion chamber.  And THAT is a whole 'nuther subject!

 

Keep us posted on your progress, please.

 

NTX5467

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A little bit of an update:

 

I probably spent hours trying to find an air filter base for the small carb air horn, with little to no success. Well I went into the lab and whipped up some models. The carb adapter I purchased was garbage, the holes don't even match up so I sent them back and also made my own. These will be printed with ABS plastic, so they should withstand the intake ambient temperatures.

ojyGY.jpg

ojyAb.jpg

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The cost for printing is about ~$2.00 per cubic inch, so everything should run me about $50-60, which I'm okay with considering they are of my own design. The carb base is countersunk on the inside holes on the bottom side. The air cleaner assembly was made using dimensions to fit NAPA part #2110 (I might have to re-check that one). I haven't printed anything yet because I don't have dimensions for under the hood from the top of the intake to the top of the hood. All dimensions are saved in the program to be easily modified based on heigh, filter, etc., so I could really print anything for any application so long as it fits within a 12x12" square. The machines at school are good up to 3-5 decimal places (two different machines) so I'll be honing the bores, too. The carb spacer/adapter is .5" thick, the bottom of the air cleaner is 1" tall and the top is .375" tall. If it doesn't fit due to height clearances, I'm thinking of either halving the bottom height or converting it to a drop style filter.

 

Anyways, just wanted to post an update. When I get them printed and have $ values, I'll post those up as well just in case anyone wants some custom elements. ;)

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A drop-base air filter is fine for using a taller air filter element, but it doesn't change the relationship between the air cleaner horn + adapter and the bottom of the hood, NOT to forget the thickness of the thin gaskets under the carb adapter and the under the carburetor, in that total height "build dimension".  OR the length of the air cleaner studs.

 

There should also be enough space between the top of the air cleaner and the carb air horn, such that as the air changes directions and enters the carb air horn, additional turbulence isn't a flow hindrance.  There used to be a "plug" that went into the air horns of the Holley 4160s that smoothed the air flow and resulted in about a 10 horsepower gain, or something like that.  Enough power improvement to make the price worth it, BUT not sure how it worked on a street-driven car at normal rpm levels.

 

If you look at an OEM GM open element air cleaner, ala 1967 Corvette, you'll see that the base is dropped as low as it can, with appropriate "clearance humps" for the integral automatic choke coil, for example.  Plus a pcv tube that takes a wire mesh flame arrester.  Compared to the aftermarket "knock-off" which look similar, the GM item sits an additional inch lower than the aftermarket versions, allowing a taller air filter element (3", if I remember correctly).  The aftermarkets use a 2" tall filter element.

 

In your carb-to-hood underside measurements, you might allow for 2" of clearance with the hood.  This can allow for engine movement "under torque", just in case.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

NTX5467

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Thanks for the heads up, I'll look into those and see if I can come up with something interesting. The cap can be changed because it's going under another face, it just needs the cap for a uniform seal on the filter. This specific filter is also 3" tall. Funny you mention 2" of clearance, the stock air cleaner left an imprint in the hood insulation and I think it's no more than an inch thick so I would say the stock filter is within a half inch of the hood. 

 

I got the call on my way to work the car was ready so I picked it up and it's sitting out in the parking lot now. Before I do anything I have to pull the power steering pump, but I'll at least be able to see if it all fits. The rear end isn't so noisy any more but I had to reuse the carrier bearings, I guess they're now obsolete and I could only find one... doesn't do me any good lol. Makes me wonder what these guys are selling on ebay for a fully repaired third member if the bearings and gears arent in production anymore...

 

Also thinking about whether or not to keep the intake aluminum or engine green...

 

Edit: You know, speaking of hood clearance and air filters, I'm really glad the insulation touches the top of the air cleaner. I've accidentally left wrenches, screw drivers and other things up there only to open the hood and say "Oh that's where I left that!" After  I dropped the Buick off, I couldn't find my Jeep keys, so I had to use the spares. I was more than certain I just left them in the Buick. Popped the hood today at work just because I wanted to look at the engine I've been missing for nearly a month now and there were the keys, like I had just opened a present, sitting right in the middle of the air cleaner where the wing nut is. I'm going to miss that.

 

In regards to the plug that fits over the Holley carburetors, I'm assuming you're talking about this? If so, I don't see any issue making something similar. Would be interesting to become a supplier of custom, vintage carburetor speed parts. :P

Edited by Beemon (see edit history)

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Yep, "StubStack".

 

Which color you might choose could be determined by just what you want people to look at or "hide".  For example, when I change the intake on my Camaro to the GM Performance Parts (aka early Z/28 updated for the ZZ3 crate motor), if I want people to know what's under there, then leaving it "aluminum" can be a status symbol of sorts, but if I want to "hide it", then making it "Chevy Blue" would be the alternative.  But with the L98 aluminum heads, unpainted, it'd probably look more uniform in "aluminum".  Your judgment call.

 

Thanks for the updates!

NTX5467

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Here's another update, got my prototype air cleaner back from the lab. Test fit it on the car, and it fit like a glove. A pretty proud moment for me. Seals up good. I also didn't go cheap like everyone else does on the market - the base is as thick as the carb air cleaner flange so the seal surface of the gasket will be there. It's also shorter than I expected. The two intake manifolds are about the same size and I'll have to end up using that half inch adapter plate, so I'll have plenty of room under the hood. I just need to make smaller cleaner mount studs now. Of course here are the pictures.

 

 

 

 

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I'm going to coat the parts with a resin "case hardener" and sand them before painting. The printer was good up to three decimal places, so they aren't perfectly smooth as evident from the first picture. The air cleaner cover I found was off of an old Harley. I got the idea while looking for interesting air cleaners, saw them, and they reminded me of old Mopar dual quads. I'm not one for flair under the hood, but I think they'll look good. After school tomorrow, I'm going to stop by Home Depot and look for some heim joints (their website lists them but that's not always the case). I've been thinking about where to hang the ignition coil, too. I'm not one for putting holes in the car, so I think I'm going to hang it from the ballast resistor mount. Since I went with the Pertronix, the ballast resistor is useless at this point anyways. I'm getting pretty excited now, the only hard thing I'm waiting on is the carb rebuild kit for the second carb. I think I might go with a 2" filter instead of the 3" so the cover doesn't have a bit of filter exposed below it, but I'll pass judgement after it's on the car.

Edited by Beemon (see edit history)
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Thanks!

 

The carb kit arrived today! I'm going to begin tear down of the second carb here shortly. I hear boiling in 4:1 water and lemon juice works pretty well, but I'm always skeptical about these home made concoctions being passed around on the internet. I'm also not really interested in dipping in a corrosive acid dip that can ruin internals/skin and give me lung problems, so any tips on cleaning out there? I won't be able to give Carb King a ring for another week, in hind sight I should have asked first. :P

 

I was really bummed out that things were going so slow for the build at the moment, but it's really picked up some speed now. I get paid again this coming Friday, so I'll be putting in for another carb rebuild kit. I figure if I can get this carb rebuilt and on the car by Monday, and it's running great, then I'm hoping it runs better than what I have now. I've had this carb looked over by three different people in it's rebirth and it always seems to have a problem or vacuum leak. I swear the check ball in the ignition circuit is supposed to seal the vacuum from leaking out but it sucks air on mine all the time... these little things that have me wondering if it was put together correctly in the three times it was gone over.

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15 hours ago, Beemon said:

Thanks!

 

The carb kit arrived today! I'm going to begin tear down of the second carb here shortly. I hear boiling in 4:1 water and lemon juice works pretty well, but I'm always skeptical about these home made concoctions being passed around on the internet. I'm also not really interested in dipping in a corrosive acid dip that can ruin internals/skin and give me lung problems, so any tips on cleaning out there? I won't be able to give Carb King a ring for another week, in hind sight I should have asked first. :P

 

I was really bummed out that things were going so slow for the build at the moment, but it's really picked up some speed now. I get paid again this coming Friday, so I'll be putting in for another carb rebuild kit. I figure if I can get this carb rebuilt and on the car by Monday, and it's running great, then I'm hoping it runs better than what I have now. I've had this carb looked over by three different people in it's rebirth and it always seems to have a problem or vacuum leak. I swear the check ball in the ignition circuit is supposed to seal the vacuum from leaking out but it sucks air on mine all the time... these little things that have me wondering if it was put together correctly in the three times it was gone over.

Highly recommend you try Evap o Rust approx 22.00\gal most auto and harbor freight stores. Don't usually advocate for products, but this one works and nondestuctive. Not as economical, but they sell qts. If you want to try some. Dicast windshield wiper transmissions came out looking buffed and the little drive chain parts on back looked like new, where they had been just a ball of rust from sitting around in humid storage. Was able to get stuck mechanism moving very easily!

 

 

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Thanks for the tip! I purchased an HF sonic cleaner so I was going to try that out before dipping in anything. Read a lot of good things about sonic cleaning and the HF unit was $60 + a two year warranty. If it doesn't work out, then my mom has a decent jewelery cleaner for mothers day :P (jokes of course, it already broke... good thing it has a warranty...)

Edited by Beemon (see edit history)

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I put this off a really long time because I had been dealing with other issues, namely ignition and oiling. However, I am now back on track for this mod!

 

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Pay no attention to the messy garage, lol. I finally got around to re-doing the carburetor that came with my Buick, so now the one from Mr. Earl is on the manifold after an extensive test pilot phase. As soon as the other carb passes it's idle hiccup (driver circuit has a clog since the idle screw does nothing), the mod is ready to go! My next days off are Thursday and Friday, so hoping everything goes well, Thursday night I'll be moving again.

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Quite a bit of a delay today. The girlfriend and I have the same days off, so if I don't treat her out, there's hell to pay... lol

 

Could have swapped manifolds tonight, but it was dark and I didn't want to fudge anything.

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The linkage is a generic Mr. Gasket and it's setup ready to go. I had to source new vacuum fittings for the intake and a plug for the front vacuum advance fitting. The carb up front is the carb I recieved from Mr. Earl, vs the one behind it being my original. Kind of a nice contrast of "kept dry in the basement" vs. "from the field" or wherever it came from. I painted my custom air cleaners, though I wish I had used a filler primer first, they didn't fill as much as I thought they would. I also bought that fancy Niccop stuff from NAPA to do the fuel lines with. I didn't want to do rubber lines because to me that didn't feel right. You look at all the old multi-carb vehicles from the 50s and they all have steel lines. From that fitting to the pump will be a rubber line with a plastic in-line filter for now. I'm waiting on a glass bowl filter to mount at the end and then it's just a matter of bending the last bit of tubing to the pump. Depending on how well the filter holds up with the metal lines, I may have to fashion a hangar for it off the front carb. Getting pretty excited now. I ran both carbs by themselves to get their optimal idle mixture, it was somewhere between 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 turns. About all I should need to do is bend a vacuum wiper line and a power brake line and we're golden.

 

I'm still debating how I'm going to do the ignition coil, but most likely it will hang off the back of the manifold standing up off one of the manifold to head bolts. I'm also worried about the road draft tube, but the back of the manifold looks like it has a cut out for it. Tomorrow's the day!

 

You know, I just realized you never see too many custom dual quads that utilize Rochester carbs unless it's an OEM thing.

Edited by Beemon (see edit history)
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13707807_10154992340095830_8921652997533

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Sorry for the first picture, it was the only one I had of the tach. A steady 600 RPM, no roughness to the idle at all. I was actually impressed with myself that I was even able to accomplish all this. I still need to add the choke tubes, but no drips or anything off the fuel rails. Took it for a spin, the driveability of the car has dramatically improved. My dad kept telling me my gas mileage will suffer now, even after I explained to him that the two carbs run off the same principle of one carb as long as you don't dip into the secondaries and drive it like normal, but alas... Still was fun to take it on it's maiden voyage.

 

https://www.facebook.com/Benjammin1991/videos/10154992363360830/

 

A quick video of the drive. My next investment is a tachometer. Pay no attention to my noisy rear end... that was a different subject all in its own.

 

Edited by Beemon (see edit history)
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(Lots of tall trees viewed through that Panoramic Windshield!)

 

 Congrats on getting things done as well as you have!  We're all proud of your accomplishment! 

 

NTX5467

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Today I had buyer's remorse... lol

 

I phoned my mother and grandmother and told them the news.

 

My grandfather always wanted to hotrod his old Buick Century, but his idea of hot rodding it was dropping a Buick 455 in it and calling it good. He had a 1941 Buick Century with the compound carburetion manifold and he told me my attempts were foolhardy and to enjoy the moment while it last. He assured me when the time came to retune it after everything settles in and summer vanishes, that I'll want to throw it all away. Harsh words from the foreman...

 

Can't say my mother was all too happy for me either. About the only one in the family that was excited was the pops, but he loves this kind of stuff anyways.

 

So we'll see. I'm happy with it, car runs extremely well for an amateur like me. My only regret is the air cleaners... they're spaced too far apart and the element is too tall so it exposes too much. They looked good on the desk, but I'm highly conservative and somewhat shy, the flashiness of the chrome is a bit too much. Might go back to the CAD software and make a new air cleaner that looks like a traditional oil bath setup, kind of like how this guy did his:



ho-t-rod-air-cleaner-jpg.2663935

 

Though I think it's funny that they have the tightening knob on there where it's clearly a 4-barrel but I digress, probably the coolest air cleaner I've seen.

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