Eva Braun's Mercedes

[chas1963]

I was going through a box of old photos and found a pic of what was supposed to have been Eva Braun's Mercedes 500k or 540k red supercharged convertible coupe.  At that time (mid 1980s) it was owned by Carlos Leffler of Richland PA.  Does anyone know what happened to that car?  For a very brief time Adolf Hitler's 770k parade car was owned and displayed by Earl Clark at his Dutch Wonderland amusement park and wax museum in Lancaster PA.  That car then went to the Imperial Palace collection.  Do these cars still exist?

 

 

[1937hd45]

Not something I'd bother to walk across the street to see. Bob

[Guest AlCapone]

Not something I'd bother to walk across the street to see. Bob

I totally agree with Bob. Wayne

[ricosan]

Chas,

 

I remember seeing that car here in North Florida at the mall back in the early 70's.  There was no charge.  I guess they rented it out to shopping malls.  Mall owners hoped to  draw out the curious in hopes that they would buy something on the same trip.  I saw it advertised a few times after that but I haven't seen or heard of it in years.

 

ricosan

[rcr]

In 1994 the red cabriolet and an almost identical machine were for sale at a Chester County, Pa. collectors showroom , Louis Frame. 

Edited March 8, 2016 by rcr (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

Do these cars still exist?

 

Since they survived that long, undoubtedly they're still around.

 

Certainly dictators such as Stalin, Hitler, Brezhnev, Kim Jong Un, Chavez,

and myriad others have done much evil, so one wouldn't go to

see a car for the purpose of glorifying or honoring wrongdoing;

but one could appreciate the car for the art and engineering it had.

If Dillinger owned a Ford, that doesn't make the Ford itself bad!

After all, it's not the cars' fault that they were owned by madmen.

 

Today, those cars may be owned (and repurposed) by honorable,

generous collectors. 

Condemn the evil, but appreciate the good.

Edited March 8, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[46 woodie]

1937 and Al, I understand your feelings, but the fact remains both of these cars are part of history. Don't blame the car for it's horrid ownership. The Bonnie and Clyde car, Al Capone's car and several others owned by criminals are still around. Look at them for what they are not who owned them. 

[Guest BillP]

Bernie Ecclestone sold a substantial collection of that vintage heavy Mercedes a few years ago. Maybe the one the OP is asking about was in that group.

[alsancle]

The car was a long tail Cab A that was modified after the war.  It never belonged to Eva Braun.  You can find more info and pictures, both before and after in this thread:

 

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/164176-prewar-mercedes-benz

 

It has been restored back to its original configuration.

[Guest]

1937 and Al, I understand your feelings, but the fact remains both of these cars are part of history. Don't blame the car for it's horrid ownership. The Bonnie and Clyde car, Al Capone's car and several others owned by criminals are still around. Look at them for what they are not who owned them.

Just curious if they feel the same way about VW Beetles?

[Pomeroy41144]

Not something I'd bother to walk across the street to see. Bob

 

 

I totally agree with Bob. Wayne

 

 

As a university-trained historian, WWII history author and antique automobile enthusiast, I would walk across two streets to see this Mercedes. 

[cahartley]

Just curious if they feel the same way about VW Beetles?

 

   ........When I attended tech school in Milwaukee, WI, in '69-'71 my Holland, MI, roommate brought along his '62 Volkswagen.

We had tons of fun with that thing....... 

[alsancle]

Just to reiterate,  this car was NOT owned by Eva Braun.  Here it is in restored condition.

 

Bob,  I do think you would walk across the street to see this.  One of the greatest cars of the prewar period.

[1937hd45]

I worked on a 540K back in the 1970's, it was a boat, oil tanker was more like it. Maybe all the Bugatti bodywork spoiled me. Bob

[Guest AlCapone]

1937 and Al, I understand your feelings, but the fact remains both of these cars are part of history. Don't blame the car for it's horrid ownership. The Bonnie and Clyde car, Al Capone's car and several others owned by criminals are still around. Look at them for what they are not who owned them.

You make a very valid point. It is just that Hitler was responsible for so many atrocious acts and war crimes. So many innocent people list their lives ( men, women and children ) for no logical reason that people find anything related to Hitler to be totally repulsive. Wayne

[Taylormade]

Al, just a gentle reminder - not trying to start anything here - but Al Capone has a rather dubious history, also.  He certainly was no Hitler, but he sure wasn't a saint, either.

[1937hd45]

You make a very valid point. It is just that Hitler was responsible for so many atrocious acts and war crimes. So many innocent people list their lives ( men, women and children ) for no logical reason that people find anything related to Hitler to be totally repulsive. Wayne

The part I find odd is the fact that Hitler broke wind on all those Mercedes leather seats, and that somehow makes the vehicle valuable to some. Bob

[Joe in Canada]

The 770 is in Canada At the Ottawa War Museum. http://orbiscatholicussecundus.blogspot.ca/2012/03/canadian-war-museum-in-ottawa-hitlers.html

[Pomeroy41144]

Al, just a gentle reminder - not trying to start anything here - but Al Capone has a rather dubious history, also.  He certainly was no Hitler, but he sure wasn't a saint, either.

 

 

Wow, how ironic. 

 

AlCapone.  Just ask Albert Anselmi, John Scalise and Joe Giunta.  Oh you can't, Al Capone murdered them with a baseball bat.

[Guest]

You make a very valid point. It is just that Hitler was responsible for so many atrocious acts and war crimes. So many innocent people list their lives ( men, women and children ) for no logical reason that people find anything related to Hitler to be totally repulsive. Wayne

So what is your verdict on the VW Beetle? The first rough sketch for the car was Hitler's. The Reich financed it's development under Dr. Porsche, procured the land and built the factory for it.

[Guest]

Take a look at these two revered race cars. Both companies were financed partly by the Reich to build these cars.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5FNxs7e1M_8/Utsl4CAsekI/AAAAAAAACzo/_K8WvuJp_p8/s1600/oldimer-rennen-mercedes+-+grossglockner.jpg

http://blog.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2012/02/SilverArrowsatgoodwood_700.jpg

[Joe in Canada]

So what is your verdict on the VW Beetle? The first rough sketch for the car was Hitler's. The Reich financed it's development under Dr. Porsche, procured the land and built the factory for it.

Were the first ones built with slave labour seeing the fist VW adaption was 1938 before the invasion in Poland at the start of WW 2 1939 ???? Ferdinand did it in one month. Edited March 9, 2016 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[rcr]

If indeed the car in question was never Eva's,  who did it belong to. I started trying to read the whole other thread but 60 pages made me ask for the quick answer after reading 20. 

[1937hd45]

I know BMW used them.

Was the first ones built with slave labour????

[alsancle]

If indeed the car in question was never Eva's,  who did it belong to. I started trying to read the whole other thread but 60 pages made me ask for the quick answer after reading 20. 

 

 

I'm not sure the original owner is known.  MB has the information but privacy laws make them nervous and they no longer give that out.  I understand they also are not longer giving out original delivery location.  All that information was formerly available to the documented owner of the car.  However, if you did not request it prior to about 1990 you are not getting it now.

 

It definitely was not Eva Braun's car.  That is 100% certified.  I have seen information that perhaps Thomas Barret was the one who modified it but I'm not sure that is true.

[Guest]

Were the first ones built with slave labour seeing the fist VW adaption was 1938 before the invasion in Poland at the start of WW 2 1939 ???? Ferdinand did it in one month.

The first cars (1938-1944) were not production cars for sale. They went to the military and party officials. One of the cars, a cabriolet went to Hitler as a birthday present even though he couldn't drive. The government used slave labor in building the factory, don't know if they used slave labor to make the car itself, but it is highly possible. When I went to the factory and museum many of those cars are on exhibit.

The link below is a picture of that event. Hitler's 50th birthday present presented by Dr. Porsche.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vNKbW2IX9yc/UpMaW_0Q2CI/AAAAAAAAUvQ/VGPSRBM9lnE/s1600/Hitler+at+cornerstone+ceremony,+Fallersleben+Volkswagen+Works,+1938+(12).jpg

I don't understand the question, Ferdinand did it in one month? Did what?

Edited March 9, 2016 by helfen (see edit history)

[Guest]

This is why I mentioned 1939 when the WW 2 war started and is when the VW was first introduced as military use.

The first version, the Type 62 by Ferdinand Porsche built in a month, was essentially a Type 1 (Beetle) with a primitive body.

The type 62 is not the first version of the Beetle, but it is the first version what would become the type 82 or Kubelwagen.

[Joe in Canada]

The first cars (1938-1944) were not production cars for sale. They went to the military and party officials. One of the cars, a cabriolet went to Hitler as a birthday present even though he couldn't drive. The government used slave labor in building the factory, don't know if they used slave labor to make the car itself, but it is highly possible. When I went to the factory and museum many of those cars are on exhibit.

The link below is a picture of that event. Hitler's 50th birthday present presented by Dr. Porsche.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vNKbW2IX9yc/UpMaW_0Q2CI/AAAAAAAAUvQ/VGPSRBM9lnE/s1600/Hitler+at+cornerstone+ceremony,+Fallersleben+Volkswagen+Works,+1938+(12).jpg

I don't understand the question, Ferdinand did it in one month? Did what?

This is why I mentioned 1938 with the persecutions ( hence slave labour ) 1939 when the WW 2 war started and is when the VW was first introduced with the invasion of Poland as military use. BUT its original design was not originally for military use but came to that before production started.

The first version, the Type 62 by Ferry Porsche was designed and built in a month, was essentially a Type 1 (Beetle) with a primitive body. That time frame record has never been broken.

[Guest]

This is why I mentioned 1938 with the persecutions ( hence slave labour ) 1939 when the WW 2 war started and is when the VW was first introduced with the invasion of Poland as military use. BUT its original design was not originally for military use but came to that before production started.

The first version, the Type 62 by Ferry Porsche was designed and built in a month, was essentially a Type 1 (Beetle) with a primitive body. That time frame record has never been broken.

I think you meant designed by Ferdinand Porsche, not his son Ferry, who designed the 356 Porsche. Anyroad I think we are leaving Eva's 540K Mercedes in the background here. I would love to have one! One twist though in reading about Braun's Mercedes was some information about a black VW beetle given to her by Hitler. What a twist it all is.

Edited March 9, 2016 by helfen (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Guys,  quit calling Braun's Mercedes.  She was never within 100 miles o fit.

[Guest AlCapone]

Al, just a gentle reminder - not trying to start anything here - but Al Capone has a rather dubious history, also.  He certainly was no Hitler, but he sure wasn't a saint, either.

In explanation the nickname AlCapone was tattooed on me by car show promoters because I own the lead car from the movie and television series, The Untouchables! I also wear a white Fedora like Al Capone.

Not to justify the killings but it was and is my opinion that AlCapone did not kill thousands of innocent men, women and children like Hitler did. He was a crime warlord and was involved in a war against his rivals who were also plotting to erase or kill him.

I am also of the opinion that in the depression he opened and paid for numerous food kitchens in Chucago. He also provided Fred clothing to people in need, so he was not all bad.

The aforementioned is what I know of Al Capone, hardly a comparable to Mr. Hitler.

Wayne

[Guest AlCapone]

Al, just a gentle reminder - not trying to start anything here - but Al Capone has a rather dubious history, also.  He certainly was no Hitler, but he sure wasn't a saint, either.

In explanation the nickname AlCapone was tattooed on me by car show promoters because I own the lead car from the movie and television series, The Untouchables! I also wear a white Fedora like Al Capone.

Not to justify the killings but it was and is my opinion that AlCapone did not kill thousands of innocent men, women and children like Hitler did. He was a crime warlord and was involved in a war against his rivals who were also plotting to erase or kill him.

I am also of the opinion that in the depression he opened and paid for numerous food kitchens in Chucago. He also provided Fred clothing to people in need, so he was not all bad.

The aforementioned is what I know of Al Capone, hardly a comparable to Mr. Hitler.

Wayne

[JACK M]

Not an American hero by any means.

A legend? Maybe.

[Guest AlCapone]

Not an American hero by any means.

A legend? Maybe.

I don't recall anyone ever suggesting he was a hero! But I am suggesting he was not an equal to Adolph Hitler. Wayne

[Steve_Mack_CT]

One hobby or interest I have is biographys (Bill O'reilly's "Killing" Series is fantastic and easy reading, BTW),  Historic figures of all kinds, from Presidents to rock stars, can be interesting.  Even criminals.  Capone's bio was one of the most comprehensive I have read on anyone - it details the era, prohibition, corruption in government that rivals his deeds, etc. close to 1,000 pages, if I remember right.  Will find author if you want to read about your alter ego Wayne!  :-) 

[Guest AlCapone]

One hobby or interest I have is biographys (Bill O'reilly's "Killing" Series is fantastic and easy reading, BTW),  Historic figures of all kinds, from Presidents to rock stars, can be interesting.  Even criminals.  Capone's bio was one of the most comprehensive I have read on anyone - it details the era, prohibition, corruption in government that rivals his deeds, etc. close to 1,000 pages, if I remember right.  Will find author if you want to read about your alter ego Wayne!  :-)

Thank you Steve that is indeed very kind of you! I appreciate your efforts. Best regards, Wayne

[8E45E]

I think you meant designed by Ferdinand Porsche, not his son Ferry, who designed the 356 Porsche. Anyroad I think we are leaving Eva's 540K Mercedes in the background here. I would love to have one! One twist though in reading about Braun's Mercedes was some information about a black VW beetle given to her by Hitler. What a twist it all is.

I believe it was neither of the Porsche's.  Hans Ledwinka, designer of the Tatra 87 was captured by the German forces and put to work at efficiently designing 'The People's car' 

 

Craig

[D Yaros]

 

If Dillinger owned a Ford, that doesn't make the Ford itself bad!

After all, it's not the cars' fault that they were owned by madmen.

 

I do not know that Dillinger ever "owned" a car?  He possessed more than a few, assuredly, but they were purloined, were they not?

[Pomeroy41144]

I do not know that Dillinger ever "owned" a car?  He possessed more than a few, assuredly, but they were purloined, were they not?

 

 

Some historians suggest that John Dillnger may have legally purchased a brand new Hudson Terreplane for his girlfriend Evelyn Frechette. 

[Pomeroy41144]

One hobby or interest I have is biographys (Bill O'reilly's "Killing" Series is fantastic and easy reading, BTW),  Historic figures of all kinds, from Presidents to rock stars, can be interesting.  Even criminals.  Capone's bio was one of the most comprehensive I have read on anyone - it details the era, prohibition, corruption in government that rivals his deeds, etc. close to 1,000 pages, if I remember right.  Will find author if you want to read about your alter ego Wayne!  :-) 

 

 

Can you give us a title and author's name for the Al Capone bio?