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what would you do, how would you do it, and why ?? Hmmm


Coach23
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At this present time I am building in 1967 Riviera. Right now I am working on the mechanics and trying to make it a nice driver. It is almost time to do the body and the paint. Now I am located in Baltimore Maryland, and looking for a good body and paint guy, for reasonable price. Now I have been quoted, anything between 7000 and $10,000. My price range at Max, was around 5000. Now the guy who quoted me 7000, said he can take payments and do things by sections. But $7000 is still $7000. Now, it's $2000 above my budget. Would you find a guy willing to do the paint and body for five grand or go with the guy for 7000,from what I hear from does real real good work. If anybody has a good body and paint guy is close by please reference me to him because 7000 is a little bit out of my budget. And 5000 and was around my max. What would you do? How would you do it? And would you pay $7000 for paint and body? And what's the normal price for body and paint job for car that size?

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7 is not a high price for a good job. But I wouldn't expect a great job. Have you seen any of his work? Is he dis-assembling your car to paint it? I would do a lot more research before picking anyone. Talk to people that have had their car's done; one's that look like what you'd expect yours to look like. Many variables besides price.

 

Steve

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Need more info. How much rust repair is involved? How long did the shops that quoted take to inspect the car? I don't mean to sound cynical but Quoting a paint job on an old car is a joke unless the car is delivered striped to bare metal with front and rear glass removed.

I agree that 7k probably won't Net a great job. 10k is getting closer but really that's even low on a car like a riviera.

The big question is what are your expectations on the finished job. Do you want it stripped to bare metal? Do you want trim removed? If so that's $7000 of work right there if using a legitimate shop with typical overhead. Certainly You can get it done for $5k if you lower your expectations enough.

Body and paint is the worst and most frustrating part of car projects unless you can do it yourself. It often takes way too long, always costs more than expected and there are often disappointments. The suggestion to get references is invaluable.

I will never have another car painted at a shop. If I ever get the urge for a project that needs an overall I'll build a temp paint booth and do it myself and however it comes out will be good enough.

I could type for an hour covering all the variables. If you happen to be an ROA member PM me and we can talk on phone if you want.

Edited by JZRIV (see edit history)
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To help ease the cost, lots of little and relatively simple things that you can do to speed the painters progress.

Simple things like removing tail lamps, bumpers, mouldings, trim, etc will all reduce the cost and make it much easier for the body and paint guys.

And you get the fun of carefully putting it all back together with 110% care factor. Besides, while being painted you can clean up all the bits ready to go on. For what it is worth.

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If asked about your car here is how we would proceed. We would remove the fenders, doors, hood, trunk lid etc and strip everything to bare metal before proceeding. Assuming a modest amount of metal work, we would estimate the job at $12-15K for a true show quality job. Our cost on materials using all epoxy primers, sealers and fillers and using a base/clear paint system would be about $2500-3000 JUST FOR MATERIALS. There are lesser quality paints available but there is a reason they cost less. Top quality PPG Base these days is $400+/gallon, more for reds and blues. No one can strip your car to bare metal  and give you a quality paint job for $7k unless they skimp on materials or do it as a hobby in their home garage.

There is a simple concept that many have a problem grasping. If you ask for, and want to only pay for less than perfect work the finished job will be less than perfect. Customer; "there is a small run in the paint". Shop owner "you wanted a cheap price". Customer; "Yes but I didn't want runs. There is also some orange peel". Shop owner; " You said it didn't have to be perfect". Customer; "Yes, but I didn't expect orange peel and by the way I registered for a car show this weekend. Should I hand out biz cards for you?"

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There are way too many variables to this situation, but I think you are under estimating the costs of bodywork and a complete repaint.

Suffice to say that given todays market, $5K will hardly cover material costs, and certainly will not cover the labor involved to refinish the car. There was a time when $5K would get you a pretty decent paint job, but those days are history !

Edited by 68RIVGS (see edit history)
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I will offer a contrast to restore32 as I rarely 'show' any of my cars, but have decent looking and RELIABLE drivers. I think you've got your priorities right in doing the mechanicals first! I've not particularly seen much linkage between price and the finished product when it comes to body shops, so I've done it a bit different. Also, If a guy can possibly keep body work (dents and especially rust repair)out of and do just paint, it can be more straightforward. I had a very good single stage urethane paint job done on my Electra by an old guy that had moved from his neighborhood body shop to having a Maaco. When I went back a few years later after he finally retired for good, the 'new guy' couldn't paint a Wildcat worth beans. That had to be clearcoated=and he even struggled at that. Both were around 6-8 years ago and $1000. I also had an auto body school student who was the nephew of a neighbor paint my old Catalina single stage urethane for $800. That shiny steel looked so uniform and neat after the DA sanding, that I almost had him clear that car. good luck with it all!   Dan   Mpls. Mn.

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It's all about what level of quality you are happy with. The nicer the nice the higher the price. Some guys will tell you they did a beautiful paint job using rattle can Rustoleum. I'm sure you can find someone to paint your car for $5k just don't expect $15k quality for $5k. I wish we could do $5000 paint jobs, we would be even more swamped with work than we are now. Problem is, you do a quick and cheap paint job and the owner takes it to a cruise in. Someone asks "who did your paint work"? Owner says "X" shop did the work but never says "but I just wanted a cheap paint job" and there goes X's reputation.  If I were you I'd run your car by MAACO, see what they say. They will get it done quickly and cheaply. Nothing wrong with their paint work if that is truly what you would be happy with. Try finding a body shop these days that will even talk to you about doing a full respray. Easier money working for the insurance company.

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The quality of a Maaco largely depends on the owners & his workers. For the $$$ some came out good. Others did VERY LITTLE prep work & painted over bird droppings, rust, etc. Unfortunately you normally get what you pay for.

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                            With the present value of Rivieras, if you buy a car that has to be stripped and repainted you will find

that you are instantly upside down on the car moneywise, unless someone gave you the car for free to begin with. If I were you

I would explore automotive trade schools and high schools in your area that teach paint and body work. I've seen cars at shows

in North Texas that were painted by people at a school that were nice enough to win paint awards and that only cost 2 or 3 thousand.

At a traditional body shop 5,000 and even 7,000 will probably not get you where you want to go.

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I was reading through and thinking along lines similar to the MACO job.

 

My preferred method would be the "cheap squirt" initially. Then you have a decent , shiny car to drive around. You will find people who's mission in life is the point out flaws in anything, no matter how much you spend.

 

Once that first coat goes on you can start buying the compressor and tools so you can take it to the next level yourself. At a shop average of around $80/hour you can do each panel to perfection yourself and not really suffer a lot of down time.

 

Over the years I have noticed that the body shop guys with the really nice paint jobs have painted their cars 2, 3, maybe more times before they came out the way they wanted. The customer only gets one paint job for his money.

 

Every time I have taken a car back to a painter because a flaw needed correction it came back worse. It's like sending a dinner back into the kitchen where you can't see the cook.

 

Bernie

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Seems like a general consensus on the topic among responses. Coach23 asked a great question that is worthy of discussion.

 

Since a low budget refinish say in the range of $5k doesn't get you a long lasting cosmetically pleasing outcome, the problem is $5000 is still a BOAT LOAD of money especially on a car that may have a market value of $10-15k......though that's an oxymoron because a $5k paint job will keep market value much lower than that. Often a poor paint job actually lowers value vs a blotchy faded old original finish.

I would rather drive a car around in faded original paint and/or rattle can primer than spend $5k on a low quality job. Its just not money well spent.

 

Aside from highly sought after Riviera's like well equipped GS models in certain years, or cars with family sentimental value, one is much further ahead to buy a car from someone who already had a quality paint job done and let them be the one to lose the money.

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How many drops of water are in the ocean? Who knows? Tough question. You could paint it with a roller for under $20 bucks or have Chip Foose paint it for $100K. What's in between? Pricing out the "relative value" of a paint job is really difficult and depends how you look at it. But here's the thing: You look at it every time time you look at the car. A buddy of mine always tells me I pay too much for paint. But every time I look at his cars all I see are nits, runs, flat spots, boogers, shrunken filler spots and all manner of flaws. He loves telling me how he really "beat down" the painter and got a great price. I think he's the one who got "beat down". He's got to live with all those imperfections. I'd say the paint cost and quality prep work alone will eat up all the $5K in your budget before you even get a good painter to spray the car, wet sand, re attach trim etc.

 

It really boils down to your own appetite. If you want a show quality paint job, be prepared to pay for it and it will cost more than $5K. A lot more. If you want a decent paint job, anything is possible. Remember, the paint is the single biggest thing on the car. You see it every time you walk up to it. Keep your eyes wide open when it comes to paint jobs because your eyes will enjoy the quality or suffer through the alternative. PRL

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I really think when it comes to riveras you are better off doing it yourself if you have the time, don't mind acquiring tools, and aren't going for show quality. I am still in bodywork stage, but have all the supplies to eventually run the rustoleum pro flat paint through a spray gun and try it myself. If i screw it up i can take it down and start over for 100 bucks or so. I figure it is like training wheels for paint work. Stage 1 is this kind of job. As i get better i will work with more expensive stuff. For the money on a daily driver i just don't see how you can beat it. Also, there are a fair amount of colors to pick from, i just like flat black and the ability to carry around your touch up kit in a spray can :)  I think the trade school paint job is a decent idea also. I have seen some real nice paint jobs come out of vo-techs and that seems like a no-brainer for saving some money.

 

Here's a link to the hot rod article for the guy doing a cheap diy job: http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/paint-body/hrdp-1108-1967-chevy-camaro-affordably-flat-painting/

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Has anyone ever actually had one of these legendary inexpensive Vo Tech paint jobs done to their satisfaction? I hear all the time "just take it to the school, they'll do it for cheap". Does it actually happen or is this mostly an urban legend? I would think the shop teacher would have all his family's work done cheap before anyone else's work.

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I have a friend in the high quality paint material business, and it apparent the HIGH cost of materials is due to the fact MOST materials are bought by body shops, and insurance companies are are in the end paying for the supplies, which means ACTUALLY our insurance premiums pay for such.

The manufacture makes a healthy profit, the body shop does too, then the insurance company takes even more, easy to see why materials are so expensive.

The mark up for materials is HUGE. Of course EPA has muddied the water a ton.

Dale in Indy

Edited by smithbrother (see edit history)
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Depending on color, be careful of painting pieces in stages. White and most solid colors have a specific formula and what you paint today will match what you painted last month. Reds, darker blues and any metallic should be painted all at once so you don't have a paint match issue. Even walking through a parking lot show, I can point out cars that were panel painted. Most people can see this when you point it out to them. People that are color blind see mis-matched paint very easy.

Save your money until you can afford to get it all done at once. As stated here, lotta bucks. Need to do it right the first time.

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Had this 64 Skylark painted at my Automotive College in Australia. The instructors were very good and students did a great job, perhaps because it was something different. Photos were taken 10 years after painting for the For Sale advertisements.

For the money I paid, which was mostly materials I was impressed. Car was chemically stripped to bare metal, primed then painted in two stages, bottom then the upper half. ( because of how their learning modules were set out, not because of how they wanted to do it). I removed most of the bright work and had professional glass company remove and replace the front and rear glass. Possibly one of the better ones I had seen done, btw in Auto Acrylic lacquer, not two pack.

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Just My two cents. Don't worry about paint and drive it. Paint jail is expensive and takes a long, long time. Spend as little as you can to get it presentable and drive the wheels off of it. Perfect paint is a jail in itself, you worry too much about the paint and end up not enjoying the car. In today's car climate paint does not really matter. Patina is cool, original is cool! Take advantage of that and spend your paint money on the mechanicals! Then save up enough to paint it down the road.

 

Good Luck, Kaber

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