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1965 Gran Sport at Gooding Auction - Jan 2016 in AZ


cjp69
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Was at Gooding Auctions today in Scottsdale to look at this 65 GS- beautiful car and looked correct in all aspects . Definitely a 2+ car . Activity around it in the middle of dozens of Ferrari's , Porsche's , etc was unbelievable . Bidding in the room was fast and furious. Hold on to your hats , final selling price was $110K + 10% buyers premium= $121K! Gotta be a record as far as I know. Unquestionably these cars , particularly 1st and second generation Rivieras, are likely to see some renewed activity. More and more people are looking at the cars we all love.

Ken Reed

ROA 14849

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Hi Ken,

  In Scottsdale and wanted to see this one but the "gang" had no interest in foreign cars so we spent the day at Russo and Steele where a couple of friends are registered and active bidders. The entrance fee at Gooding was too steep for all of us just so I could inspect one car so wish I could have inspected this car in person. I`ve never been to their premises...is it possible to inspect the sold cars without actually entering the auction? I suspect not...

  Nice to see the cars getting some recognition, thanks for posting,

  Tom Mooney

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Hi Tom - you can inspect without registering to bid. I think the fee is $ 30 or $40 to get in. This car was very nice . Didn't even get a chance to raise my hand as the bidding was so furious from the start and got to 100k within 20 seconds and finished I think on the phone at $110. Went to Barrett- Jackson rest of the day. All the nice muscle cars were extremely strong - out of my league. Obviously one auction doesn't set a trend but I believe the early Rivs (65-73 ) are really going to come into their own as far as interest by enthusiasts in the next few years. Everyone has a Camero and Mustang at the shows but how many Rivs do you see and when people do see them , they are oohing and aching.

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                         The GS Rivieras are coming on strong and this should pull up the value of regular Rivieras

to some extent. I agree that they get a lot of attention at car shows...... my  65 Riviera draws much more attention when I take it

to a show than my 69 GTO convertible or 70 Chevelle SS 396 hardtop, even though my musclecars are in more perfect

condition because they are frame off restos.  One things for sure, they aren't making any more of them, and every time one is parted

out, the value of the others just went up some more. An increase in value of first gen Rivieras is way way overdue.

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After looking at the pics a couple things strike me. This is not a car someone would want to use as a guide if doing an authentic restoration. And, this proves that people with disposable income to spend on a car don't always care or take time to educate themselves if everything is correct or not. Someone made a good decision to put it in an auction known for foreign cars. Only time will tell if this is a fluke. Its just not normal to see a particular models value suddenly double. Regardless I can't help but wish I had a 65 GS sitting in the garage.

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                          Here's what I see wrong...... way.too high in rear, Rocker panel moldings painted solid flat black, wheel background

color is silver instead of charcoal, wrong hose clamps, wrong radiator cap, batt cables have positive cable next to fender, body bolts on front clip are silver cad instead of black, wrong style crimp on A/C hoses,the dash pad is way too thick, like they recovered the original pad with foam and new vinyl without removing the original covering from the dash pad frame, and the grain on the vinyl looks incorrect on the dash pad. The battery is an aftermarket late model battery with no battery topper, thus totally incorrect in appearance .The A/C compressor is missing the orange and black decal below the Frigidaire decal and no yellow inspection OK stamp on the compressor. The interior wood looks dull and lifeless, as does the dash paint.

The closeup of the hood clearly shows that the center molding was masked off for painting the hood, not removed. ( There is overspray all over the edge of the molding) In the pictures

the paint job looks suspect to me. You can't tell for sure about a paint job without seeing the car in person, but  the 41 year old repaint on my car looks better in photographs than this car's paint does in photographs.  For 121,000 dollars I would expect nothing less than a show stopper paint job done with all trim removed.....(like JZ riv's 66 Riviera GS) Lastly, the whitewall tires should be triple whitewalls not single

stripe. 

Edited by Seafoam65 (see edit history)
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You saved me some typing Winston. In addition: The breather hose for the CA closed crankcase ventilation is not connected to the air cleaner snorkel. Perhaps its not a CA air cleaner and doesn't have the hole in snorkel but can't tell for certain. The air cleaner lid does not have a super wildcat decal. The plug wires do not appear to be secured properly on right side as original. Not sure about left side since it has the breather cap at rear. Maybe it didn't use same bracket. The master cylinder should have a screw top cap. Brake booster appears to be gold cad. The steel line routed over valve cover for booster vacuum is not secured with special bracket under valve cover bolt. The booster vacuum fitting is a right angle instead of straight. The alternator fan is gold cad not galvanized. Paint on inner fenders looks too glossy.

 

I don't know 65s very well so am probably missing some details. Some may sound nit picky but for $121K, I think it justifies being nit picky.  :D

Edited by JZRIV (see edit history)
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Jason, all,

  The CA driver`s side valve cover should have a spark plug wire retainer on the inside rear corner ( I didnt check the engine pics closely, is it there?). There were two types of master cylinders installed on `65`s with different style lids, one is a screw type and the second has a bail type as shown on this car.

There are many concerns I have with incorrect details on this car, not the least of which are the repro rivets which are securing the Fisher Body tag in conjunction with the wrong accent color in the interior (it is black and not dark charcoal, right?) but what seems obvious to me, especially in the auction sale format, is that the exterior /interior combination is rather striking and is probably most responsible for drawing such a high sale price for this car. Colors are everything, especially in this format,

  Tom

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This has to be a high watermark for a 65 GS and for this kind of money, the car should be perfect, and I mean perfect. It sits a bit too high in the rear, the upper front bumper isn't mounted correctly or else it is bent. The front license plate bracket is missing and the radiator cap is an aftermarket unit. Don't get me wrong, it is a beautiful car and I would like to own it. The points I bring up are correctable but for the money this car sold for, the new owner shouldn't have to spend a dime. Based on the deluxe white interior, it would be a mid production car as it wasn't offered initially and there aren't many left like this. It is a beautiful color combination. Tom brings up a very good point as well regarding the repro rivets. It might be explainable but I hope the new owner did his homework before pulling the trigger.

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Jason, all,

  The CA driver`s side valve cover should have a spark plug wire retainer on the inside rear corner ( I didnt check the engine pics closely, is it there?). There were two types of master cylinders installed on `65`s with different style lids, one is a screw type and the second has a bail type as shown on this car.

Tom

Did not know the bail type master cylinders came from factory. Thought they were aftermarket. I've only seen less than a handful of 65/66s that I knew for sure had the factory master cylinder and they were all screw top caps so I thought they all did.

It does look like there is a plug wire retainer at rear inside corner of left side unique to the CA cover.

In summary it sounds like the buyer might have some remorse if they start looking into details.

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Of the 3 65's that I have owned, 2 of the 3 had the ball top master cylinder cover and they were original. One had the screw on cap but a receipt came with the car showing it to be a GM replacement that was installed at the dealership. Either one would be correct for the year.

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Interesting how many items were identified as not being correct in this Gran Sport and I never thought the day would come when a '65 Gran Sport would command such high dollars at auction!

 

I have a '65 GS and my car came with the bail type master cylinder top.  I can't vouch for it being original from new, but it was this way when I bought the car in 1983.

 

I also wonder about the body color. The body plate color code is "NN" which is Burgundy Mist - but the paint on this car looks more candy-apple red than burgundy to me.

 

Tom noticed the body plate rivets.  If they are not original as he suspects then this opens the possibility that the body plate might also be a reproduction.  I bring this up because I've been involved with mid-year '63-'67 Corvettes for many years and the issue of counterfeit cars comes up fairly frequently. There's an economic incentive to falsify big-block cars as these bring in bigger $.  There is a cottage industry reproducing trim tags and the rivets for Corvettes (and other makes).  The fake trim tags can be used to imply a given car came from the factory with desirable options, upholstery trim and body colors.  In fact the National Corvette Restorer's Society (NCRS) publishes an entire book on how to validate the authenticity of trim (body) tags, rivets, etc.

 

Now that the '65 Gran Sport has reached the collector car stratosphere (above $100,000), I wouldn't be surprised if enterprising folks decide to take a regular 401 Riviera and turn it into a Gran Sport.  It wouldn't be that hard to fool an unsuspecting buyer. Folks like Tom Mooney would be able to spot a fake unless it was exceptionally well-done, but most of the rest of us don't have his level of experience and expertise and might be fooled.

 

Alex

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OK Riviera People: This ridiculous watermark is going to ruin things all the way down the food chain.

 

Little known, and I don't ever mention this is that I was a 63-67 Corvette guy for many years from the 60s to the mid 80s.   Then the perfection came along with the matching numbers mythology. Yuuuk.  The kind of car Buzz and Todd adventured in was now this prissy......and expensive trophy.

 

If this is happening to the 65 Riviera, especially the GS models it's a dark day for us all.  And, BTW, lots of the buyers that pay stupid money for these type cars are looking for more bling than quality. You may also notice that I left out correctness and authenticity.

 

Sour grapes all the way, Mitch

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The A9 option code for 1965 was the Gran Sport option.  That included a few different items that otherwise could have been purchased separately on any 1965 Riviera except for the body emblems, the glove box door, larger exhaust, and the BS code transmission.  Those other items would be the Super Wildcat engine, and Posi-trac rear end, both of which could be ordered on a non Gran Sport.  There is nothing on the Data plate, or the VIN that makes any reference to the A9 option.  If you're buying one, you need to confirm for yourself that it's valid.  That said, with just a few choice items you can add the Gran Sport option to any car.  Is this any different from adding an AM/FM radio in place of an AM radio, or adding the ribbed rocker panels, or any other option that you might find on a junker to the car you're currently driving?  You also need to take into consideration that the car is now 50 years old and maintenance over the years may preclude using NOS in lieu of aftermarket parts or parts off another 1st generation Riviera.  

 

The title for the '65 Gran Sport that I just purchased says nothing about the car other than it is a 1965 Riviera.  The VIN matches the title, and the Engine Serial Number.  Someone started to customize it and one of the first things they did was to take all the emblems off, they're no where to be found and the holes in the rear panel and the front fenders have since been filled.  Am I wrong to buy repo emblems and add them to the car?  Do I have a real one, I hope so but when/if I go to sell it, I'll be sure to state that it's a '65 Riviera equipped with the Gran Sport option.

 

I guess what I'm getting at is that if you've got the kind of money that this car sold for, and your want to buy a "from the factory" Gran Sport, it would probably be well worth a few well spent dollars to hire someone to check out the car for you if you can't do it yourself. 

 

Ed

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)
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VIN plates I'll agree with, Data plates that just show options, I'm not sure about.  What if I want to add  a power seat to my car.  Would having a new data plate that had the power seat stamp make the car illegal?  The seat didn't  make it illegal; should the data plate?  They're just options, and have nothing to do with the legality of the car.  Is a prospective buyer going to try to beat you down on the price because you added an option that he prefers?  "The car didn't come from the factory with power seats, but I really want them, but because YOU added it, I'm going to low ball you." 

 

Ed

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Don't hate the player, hate the game Mitch.  

OK Riviera People: This ridiculous watermark is going to ruin things all the way down the food chain.

 

Little known, and I don't ever mention this is that I was a 63-67 Corvette guy for many years from the 60s to the mid 80s.   Then the perfection came along with the matching numbers mythology. Yuuuk.  The kind of car Buzz and Todd adventured in was now this prissy......and expensive trophy.

 

If this is happening to the 65 Riviera, especially the GS models it's a dark day for us all.  And, BTW, lots of the buyers that pay stupid money for these type cars are looking for more bling than quality. You may also notice that I left out correctness and authenticity.

 

Sour grapes all the way, Mitch

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I have no issue with adding options to a car and every Riviera I have owned, except the 97, I have added options to them.  But some manufacturers have vital stats on a data plate or fender tag that in addition to a VIN, help decipher what the car really is.  This can make a big difference in the value of a car.

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I have no issue with adding options to a car and every Riviera I have owned, except the 97, I have added options to them.  But some manufacturers have vital stats on a data plate or fender tag that in addition to a VIN, help decipher what the car really is.  This can make a big difference in the value of a car.

Agreed, 100% if the stats are vital to what the car really is.  If it's just an option, ??????? There are other ways to authenticate a car without refering to a data plate.  Does any state not issue a title to a car if the data plate is missing?

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