1956322 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 The title pretty much says it. .56 special the rear passenger side backing plate is wet with fresh gear oil. ..my question is. .is it the seal or any chance of it just being the gasket between the diff and backing plate? If it is the seal how hard of a job am I looking at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) Not too bad. Remove rear cover, drive axle lock clip off, pull out axle, remove seals with puller, reassemble. Shop manual covers procedure.........Bob Edited November 8, 2015 by Bhigdog (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 I've read the shop manual but it's a bit lacking. .first off it doesn't mention removing a clip it just says to pull out axle. ..also there's no cover on the 56 axle..at least not on the side where the fill plug is. Then it kinda implies you have to remove the bearing to remove the seal. .but reading further it implies you don't? ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 So after doing some digging of pictures online it appears i...unbolt the axle from the backing plate. .pull it out. .seal sits in front of bearing and I shouldn't have to mess with bearing. ..does this sound right? How hard is it to pull out axle. .manual claims you need a puller but is this actually the case? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 The bearing is towards the inside, seal should be between the bearing and the cover plate. Many times you unbolt and pull by hand and the axel will come out. Sometimes you'll need the puller. And most good parts stores are prepared to press the old bearimg off, and press the new one on. Yes, i said the new one. No point doing the job twice. And the bearings are not that expensive. Plus, do both sides while you're at it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Both sides were done about 10 years ago before I got the car. .now the passenger side is leaking. .just trying to figure out what I'll be getting into. So if I understand things correctly there's a seal that I can remove without touching the bearing? Then there's an o ring that goes around bearing and there's the gasket that goes between the axle with backing plate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I misspoke re clip etc. I thought you had a 55 Buick. My bad...........Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I am not full bottle on these buicks yet, so I cant help with specifics, but normally when a wheel seal starts to leak, the bearing needs replacing If the bearing is starting to wear, it pushes the axle up towards the car and makes the seal weak on the lower side (it dont take much) The other thing is wether the seal has cut a groove into the axle I have used the brake drum as a kind of slide hammer to get the axles to come out Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Based on the factory service manual addendum, which is specifically for the "new" 56 rear axle, there are two seals plus a retainer plate gasket. The inner seal is placed into the axle housing before the axle is inserted. This gasket is intended to prevent lubricant from passing by the wheel bearing.The outer seal is placed on the axle between the retainer plate and the bearing.The Retainer plate uses gaskets to provide required clearance, such that when the retainer plate is tightened to 65-70 Ft lbs , the inner and outer seals are compressed to prevent grease leaks. This manual says to use the same number of retainer plate gaskets as originally removed if there was no leak to begin with, and if you have not changed the axle housing or the brake backing plate. If the retainer plate clearance is in question, then there is a detailed procedure in the regular shop manual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The procedure for determining the proper thickness of retainer gaskets is on page 6-9 of the manual and is indeed detailed. To summarize:The axle is installed without any retainer plate gaskets, and driven into place to make sure the bearing is fully seated. All four retainer plate bolts are installed finger tight.Push the brake backing plate against the axle housing and then using two feeler gauges, on opposite sides of the retaining plate, take measurements of the gap between the retainer plate and the brake backing plate. Average the two measurements.Then select the number of retainer plate gaskets that provide from .005- .2. inches LESS thickness than the average. This measurement is required to hold the inner gasket tightly to the shoulder in the axle housing. Whew! So yes, it sounds like you can pull the axle, replace the inner gasket, and then calculate the proper gasket thickness for the retainer plate gasket and you should be good to go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 So my game plan tomorrow is to go to Napa and get this seal and o ring set http://m.napaonline.com/parts/PartsList.aspx?&t=%3fNtt%3d%26Ntk%3dCategory%26N%3d599001%2b101956%2b50008%2b2008011%2b4022012%2b5999999%2b28560%26Ne%3d25000&s=1&p=1Then start tearing into it and hopefully just replace these seals. .I plan on reusing whatever gaskets might be between the retaining plate and backing plate. Do these seals look right to anyone? Does anyone happen to have any pictures. This is my Dailey driver and I live in an apartment. .I'm off tomorrow and doing this at a friend's house so I'm trying to avoid any surprises. A shop is suppose to get back to be tomorrow morning on a quote I'm guessing they'll be sky high plus I don't trust shops in general. Thanks for the replies so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I'm thinking you do not have the right combination of retaining plate gaskets as the reason for the leak. If it's not that then chances are you have a bad bearing causing the leak.If you got a few years out of the bearing replacement a few years ago, then maybe you can get a little more time by just replacing the inner gasket. The set you show looks like it has the inner and outer gasket. But the manual only show gaskets in place so it's hard to tell if you are getting the right set. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 You might be right about the retaining gaskets. ..and the bearing for that matter. .right before I got home I noticed a change in the diffs sound. ..but it was fine the rest of the way. .this morning I noticed wetness on the backing plate and it's definitely gear oil. ..hmm wondering if I should just bite the bullet and order everything for back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Of note is that the outer seal cannot go on unless the bearing is off the axle. In my opinion, the act of pulling the bearing off will likely distort it, therefore, if it were me, I'd replace everything at one time. Since you just did this job a few years ago I'd only do the axle that is leaking now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Holmberg Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Just check how much oil you have in the rear axle,maybe the seal between the torque tube and the Dynaflow is bad.That will cause the automatic oil from the Dynaflow to go the rear axle?Leif in Sweden. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) The right axle bearing is usually the one that fails. I have replaced both rights my '60 Electra and the '64 Riviera. Excess bearing movement will cause the seal to fail and seep out. You can raise the car and unload the bearing, then put it in gear to amplify the noise. For removal just flip the drum over and put three studs back into the hub. That makes a good slide hammer. Removing the bearing from the shaft is hard. On the Riviera I used a large press with a combination of plates to press against. On the '60 I knocked off the outer race and used a lathe to skin off the inner race. When it got to paper thin it slid right off. In both instances I used a bearing heater to warm the bearing for installation. This will prevent damage that may have occurred ten years ago when the last guys did it. With the bearing heated it will go on almost all the way; then a little nudge in a press with seat it ...without pounding the hell out of it. I am thinking that the last guys were somewhat inexperienced because they DID replace both. I never have. The only instance I can think of replacing both would be on a car in outside or unheated storage for a long period of time that had a build up of condensed water that was not drained and flushed prior to going back into service. That is quite common; neglecting to drain water from rearends and transmissions when recommissioning. Your car is hard to drain and flush. It could have a mix of water and gear lube now if it sat for a long time during its first 60 years. On some closed readends I have been able to drain through a third member lower bolt hole. Good luck. Today is the tomorrow you mentioned.Bernie Edited November 9, 2015 by 60FlatTop (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 The torque tube seal I replaced about a year ago. .and I've changed the oil in the diff a few times. .I'm really hoping the bearing is OK. ..and I'm hoping I can slide the seal on without roving the bearing. .the manual kinda implies you can. .we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Holmberg Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 A friend of mine changed the torque tube seal last year too(he`s a car mecanic),but he had to do it again,just becuse he has got to much oil in the rear axle.Just wonder why have you changed the oil in the rear axle a few times?Leif in Sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 Well the first time was because of the torque tube seal. .it was filled to the top with atf..it had sat for a few years. ..I changed it two more times avert that just to be sure to get out all of the old gunk. ..it definitely is not leaking atf into the diff anymore. I just picked up the new seal hopefully I'm lucky and it's just the one seal. .if it's anything else then I guess I'm doing the bearing. .I did find a shop that will press it on do that part is covered. Wish me luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Holmberg Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Just be sure to do it carfully, the Wheel bearing kost à lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 Update. ..bearing retaining plate was literally finger tight. .o ring on bearing was flat...bearing felt like new. .replaced o ring and torqued to spec we will see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 Well it still leaks. .oh and my newish water pump is not happy sounding. .and my newish jack is no longer jacking. .not a good day. .thinking about selling it and calling it quits sighs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Did you have retainer plate gaskets? Did you try and determine their gauge as per the manual? Without them you'll not have the bearing seated. Also if the lubricant has passed the inner seal then it is in the bearing itself. So it stands to reason that whatever is in there will still leak out for a while. Then again, the manual did not talk about packing the rear wheel bearing. It must have some lubricant in there to begin with. If the rear axle grease has passed into the bearing it may have forced the factory bearing lube out already and once the grease in the bearing escapes then you'll be running dru bearings back there. This is just another reason to replace that rear bearing and both seals now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 The retaining plate gasket I reused. .admittedly it's not in the best shape. The bearing is a sealed bearing it does not get greased nor is it suppose to get oil from the diff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 According to the manual, the outer seal is pressed into the bearing before it is put on the axle. And while an updated bearing may be sealed, the fact is the lubricant got past the inner seal not once, but twice, and leaked past the outer seal. Can you really be sure it's not defective now? Hey, it's your car. But I can tell you it's not much fun to be on a long trip and have an axle bearing take you out, based upon your own decision to save a few bucks. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1956322 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 It's not a matter of saving a few bucks it's a matter of time and work space. .I did the easiest quickest route cause I couldn't leave the car sitting in front of my friends house with no tire on for a day while I waited for a bearing and then to have a shop press it on. ..the bearing felt fine so I went with it not cause of money but cause I had no time left and it felt fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Drive it 'as is'. In the meantime get the parts and line up same day service for the bearing replacement. Be sure the lip on the inner seal is oriented toward the fluid you want to keep out. Should be a quick job since you already have some practice . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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