64 Riviera Rebuild

[Mozzie]

Hi all,

 

I'm not sure if this is the best place for this thread as there is a restoration/project area in the main forum however, as it is not Buick specific, I wonder if most Riviera owners would ever see it. Generally the people that can offer the best advice would be looking in the Riviera section. Anyway I'm happy to have it moved if required.

 

This is a pretty original 64 Riviera I bought earlier this year from Michigan USA. It spent most of it's life in Arizona so appears to be almost entirely rust free. The previous owner had it since around 92 and it's almost totally original apart from a respray 20 odd years ago. The cloth seat inserts have also been replaced with vinyl.

 

I imported the car to Australia however it's staying LHD and will be 'club registered' which allows you to drive as is. The plan is a full body off restoration to original spec. I probably wouldn't use the word 'concourse' as I plan on changing the engine bay to the body color as I prefer that over black. Other than that it will be stock - hubcaps and all. Time is a controlling factor here so this may be a rather long thread. It will be money no object though as I want to show it and I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to cars.
 

First step was to build a new garage for it. This weekend I finally got around to pulling out the seats and carpet. A few issues already known are: electric seat does not move, most lights do not work, fuel pump does not work well and rear brakes are locked on. It's been sitting around for a long time:

 

Floors look good with only minor surface rust. I was planning on using something as similar has possible to the original floor underlay but after seeing what it is like I'm not convinced that's the best option. The original material is a sort of heavy cardboard mat with a fibre underlay and foil over the top. I'm thinking I might take a stencil of it and use a dynamat product cut to the same shape with dynapad to replicate the foam. I'm not a fan of mixing old cars with new technology but I think this may be a better option as an original substitute would be hard to find and no one will ever see it...

[Eric's.64.Superwildcat]

Hi Mozzie,

  Congratulations on your purchase.  And you've posted to the right place.

 

*  Electric seat - Its best to remove the seat mechanism and clean it as bench work.  If you knock the dust and hard old grease out of the working parts and lubricate it with fresh grease it will probably work like new.  

*  Lights not working - that's common.  There are several threads on this board that discuss the door jamb switches.  You might start there.  After that is just checking the fuses and testing the wires (and ground quality) with a 12 volt tester.  

*  Fuel pump - replace

*  Brakes - rebuild to original spec

[Bill Stoneberg]

Looks good and you will have lots of fun with this one.

 

Dont forget to replace the fuel lines from the tank.

 

Looks like you have all you Motor and A/C parts in place.  Always a good thing.

 

Have fun with this project.

[Mozzie]

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

This weekend I pulled out some more of the interior as well as the back window. From the pictures you'll see the rear quarter panels have some rust either side. There's two very small spots coming from the inside of the bottom right hand rocker/quarter section in front of the rear wheel. On the left side is a section on the wheel arch. Both of these I was aware of and need to be cut out and repaired.

 

After I pulled out the parcel shelf I found a lot of surface rust underneath near the C-pillar either side. All of this points to a leaking rear window so out it came. What I found was not really a shock but not nice all the same. There is a series of rust holes in the window channel mainly on the right hand bottom section and also the left hand C-pillar section. The rest of it is fine. This will all have to be cut out and the bottom section will requite quite a long piece to be welded in. Not uncommon as I understand. The trim clips are rusted and the screw head have had it so I'll have to somehow grind the head off the try and undo the screw with pliers. I'm also not entirely sure how to remove the remainder of the window seal. So far I've been using a razor blade. The window was a pain to get out as some of it was actually in direct contact with the body and seemed to be actually welded to the paint. The old wire trick just kept breaking the wire.

 

So I guess water comes in around the window, sits in the channel, rusts through and then pools on the parcel shelf where it eventually run onto the rear floor under the seat (light surface rust) and down inside the quarter panels along the inner guard area. There is also a lot of surface rust all over the place - even underneath the parcel panel.

I'm planning on stripping the body back to a bare shell and putting it on a rotisserie. Then it will go to a local place that does soda blasting. They will also sand blast the rusted areas only and wash in acid. The whole car is then washed down, dried, etched and primed in the same day. Hopefully this will stop all the rust and it can then go to another local place 'StyleRod Panels' to have sections cut out and replaced before a full respray. It's still a pretty good body shell - I haven't found any floor or trunk rust at all.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Mozzie (see edit history)

[Mozzie]

Parcel shelf is pretty good considering the leaking window. Someones been a Riviera Association member a long time ago...

[64Rivvy]

Mozzie,

I just saw your note about soda blasting and acid bath. In case you're not aware there are many issues with both soda blasting and acid baths/etching. With the acid, it has a tendency to leach out of crevices over time and destroys the primer and paint. With soda blasting, a lot of the issues have to do with not properly neutralizing the metal after blasting.

I personally would try to find someone that does media blasting with a safe media like dupont starblast or something similar. Even then I would remove paint from the larger panels like hood, deck lid, quarters and doors with stripper and a da before taking it. Then just have them lightly blast over this areas making sure not to warp the panels. Either way make sure the person doing the blasting has experience blasting classic cars and knows how to make sure panels are not warped by excess pressure and heat by not moving constantly. I personally always talk to the specific person who will be blasting to make sure I get a good feeling from them they know what they're doing. Good luck.

[Mozzie]

Thanks for the warning Rivvy. I've read so many threads regarding blasting options and acid dipping and there seems to be bad feedback on every one of them. My main preference for the soda blasting is that there is very low risk of panel warping and being non-abrasive it leaves the metal in it's original state. As it doesn't remove rust the place I have in mind uses sand blasting for the rusted areas only and if it's really bad pitted rust then they scrub in acid to that area to stop the rusting process. Also this place specializes in classic cars and does regular jobs for the the Healy factory and Stylerod panels so it seems he is trusted and knows what his doing. In saying that when I finally get to that stage I'll go to the panel shop and ask them what they prefer and if it's the soda blast place I'll go and talk to him. It seems to me most of the problems I read about are people who don't have experience or are given their car back with a gallon of cleaner and told to finish the job themselves. Like you say - you want to sus out the place doing it first to make sure they are competent.

 

Too bad there isn't an industrial scale place that does e-coating or some other proven rust treatment. All I can do is remove, treat and prevent rust in every way possible and hope it never comes back. One interesting thing I found with the rear window is someone had used clear silicon to repair the window seal and everywhere used was rust free. Everywhere that had the original bond was rusted through. So there is something to be said for modern sealers. However I doubt this car will ever see water again after I'm finished as it's garaged and won't be driven in the rain. Fortunately we have a very low humidity climate here (in fact evaporative air conditioning is common) so it should be safe.

[RivNut]

The biggest thing that I've found that's a negative of any kind of blasting is that the media gets into every crack and crevice and it's almost impossible to get it all out.  If there's any way possible to dip it, dip it. In the US, the EPA has probably done away with that though.

 

Ed

[Guest rwrogers11]

Around here, many painters won't paint a vehicle thats been soda blasted, due to adhesion issues.  We use the dustless blasting system which mixes water with the media, usually crushed glass or sand, thus keeping the dust cloud down and the neighbors happy.

 

As Ed said though, blasting, wet or dry, will leave a lot of media to be cleaned up, cleaned out, etc.  If you have the option to dip the car, that's the best way, second I would highly recommend the DB system.

 

Thanks,

Richard

RCT Mobile Blasting

[Mozzie]

Not much to show currently as I'm still disassembling. The front windscreen is out and today I removed the front bumper assembly. There has been a small hit on the drivers side of the bumper which has kinked the guard/fender and pushed the brackets back. Nothing that can't be fixed fairly easily. Some of the captive nut cages have broken when I undid them - I'm hoping there are replacements available. The parker lenses looked okay but I now see they have lots of fine cracks through them (not sure what you call it when plastic does that). There are replacements but they are very expensive.

Some of the globes don't work which I'd say are bad earths and dirty terminals. Neither of the lower light sockets work - one is rusted. I actually have no idea what they're for. The upper one is parkers, middle indicators and the lower one I have no idea. Can anyone tell me?

 

I'm taking photos and bagging everything to try and idiot proof things. I've got manuals too which helps. I generally photograph the items with their fasteners then bag and label the fasteners then photograph again. I'm sure it will help although most of the fasteners would be better replaced.

 

[RivNut]

I think that when you look at the wires going into the back of the lamp housings, you'll be able to figure out which lamps to what. 

 

The upper and lower sockets share the same wire, it's just spliced.  So I believe that those are your parking lamps.  The center one is the turn signal.  It's a strange one.  The socket is for a two wire bulb, but there's only one wire going to it.  You still have to use a two element bulb in it for it to function correctly.  One contact on the bulb and its related element are just not used.  I think this goes back to the '63 model where there wasn't a lower bulb and both elements of the larger socket were used.  You'll also notice that there is an opening in the lower section of the housing for a "cornering light."  This was an option that illuminated the curb when you activated your turn signals.  It should have a plastic plug in it.  If the plugs are in good shape don't try to take them out, they're brittle and break easily and there are no replacements.

 

Ed

 

Addendum:

 

Here's a link to an earlier post that shows the back of a couple of lamp housings.  You'll want to look at the picture of the back of the housings and in particular the housing that has three separate sockets.  You'll see that the dark wires that go to the upper and lower sockets come from the same slot in the connector; they work together from the same power source and are your parking lamps.  The green wire that runs to the center socket is the turn signal.  As far as lamp color is concerned, go with what your local gov't. says is correct.

 

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/233062-attn-jc-63-mid-year-changes/?hl=%2Bturn+%2Bsignal

Edited January 2, 2016 by RivNut (see edit history)

[2manyhobbies]

Hi Mozzie

I am working on a very similar car:  a 64' that was originally desert beige with a deluxe fawn interior!  Yours appears to be in much better condition though.  Please keep us posted on your work around the rear window, I have to do the same repair!  

Brad

[1965rivgs]

I think that when you look at the wires going into the back of the lamp housings, you'll be able to figure out which lamps to what. 

 

The upper and lower sockets share the same wire, it's just spliced.  So I believe that those are your parking lamps.  The center one is the turn signal.  It's a strange one.  The socket is for a two wire bulb, but there's only one wire going to it.  You still have to use a two element bulb in it for it to function correctly.  One contact on the bulb and its related element are just not used.  I think this goes back to the '63 model where there wasn't a lower bulb and both elements of the larger socket were used.  You'll also notice that there is an opening in the lower section of the housing for a "cornering light."  This was an option that illuminated the curb when you activated your turn signals.  It should have a plastic plug in it.  If the plugs are in good shape don't try to take them out, they're brittle and break easily and there are no replacements.

 

Ed

 

Addendum:

 

Here's a link to an earlier post that shows the back of a couple of lamp housings.  You'll want to look at the picture of the back of the housings and in particular the housing that has three separate sockets.  You'll see that the dark wires that go to the upper and lower sockets come from the same slot in the connector; they work together from the same power source and are your parking lamps.  The green wire that runs to the center socket is the turn signal.  As far as lamp color is concerned, go with what your local gov't. says is correct.

 

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/233062-attn-jc-63-mid-year-changes/?hl=%2Bturn+%2Bsignal

Great post Ed. I would power up the "extra" terminal in the turn signal socket by using another parking light feed. Holy parking lights!

  Tom

[Mozzie]

Fantastic info - thank you Ed. Makes my job a lot easier to work things out. 

Brad, I've been following your thread on the floor braces. A courageous effort - good on you. I'll just be paying a local panel shop that specializes in restoration as when it comes to welding I have no skills. I'll certainly be posting photos though.

[RivNut]

Great post Ed. I would power up the "extra" terminal in the turn signal socket by using another parking light feed. Holy parking lights!

  Tom

 Here's a link to a thread that I started some time ago on rebuilding turn signal sockets.

 

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/236349-renewing-tun-lamp-sockets/?hl=%2Bturn+%2Bsignal

 

If you were to purchase a  socket at a jobber (Advance, Autozone, Orelly's, etc.,) you could pull a wire and a spring from it and run it through the empty hole in the '64 turn signal socket then splice it into the harness for the two parking lamps.  With this arrangement you'd have the two individual lamps (upper and lower) plus you'd also have the lower intensity element in the turn signal bulb as the third parking lamp.  As Tom suggests above "Holy parking lamps! "

 

Ed

 

PS - This would be for one side only. You'd have to purchase two sockets to do both sides.  The wire has a contact end soldered into it and a spring under the contact.  The spring is used to keep the wire and bulb in contact with each other and it also allows you to depress the bulb to remove it from the socket.

[Mozzie]

After testing the contacts and reading your other thread (plus watching the video) I now understand what is wrong. It's exactly as described - same problem with the globe not having any give in the spring. It doesn't fit the way a globe in a socket should. I would never have worked that out but it makes perfect sense now. Thank you.

[60FlatTop]

Well, it ain't socket science.

Bernie

[Mozzie]

My next task after resolving the lamp situation is to work out why the washers and wipers don't work.

 

The washers make an audible click sound when you press the button but even without water and in a warn state I'm guessing there should be some motor noise. There is power going to the connector.

 

The wipers don't make any sound at all. After consulting the chassis manual I've ran a few tests. First of all what is confusing is the workshop manual doesn't seem to match the connector design. The wires seem to be in a different order. Please forgive me if I'm getting this completely wrong as electrics are not my strong point. It appears the green/blue is ground and the center terminal is power. The plug is supplying power so it doesn't seem to be a switch or fuse issue. The schematic I bought matches the actual connector. I removed the motor and ran another test according to the workshop manual. This time ignoring the terminal numbers in the manual which don't appear to match I tested the motor to the battery. It made a very faint click sound and nothing else. So I pulled the motor apart. Obviously everything in regards to the gearbox and terminals looks okay as you'd expect. I stupidly pulled the cover off the motor and the bushes sprang out and now I can't get it back on again. I've no idea how you put the bushes in place and slide the cover back on in one go. So that makes it hard to test any further.

 

Soooo.... The question I'm asking is: Is it normal when washers or wipers don't work to actually find no motor noise at all? Just a 'click' and nothing else. Does this point to a problem that is in fact more simple and does not need to be rectified by a full replacement.

 

OR should I replace both units and be done with it. The result I fear of course is that there is very little wrong with these units and I may be paying over $200 for a new wiper motor and over $50 for a new washer motor (there is a NOS one on ebay rather than the cheaper non standard unit) for no good reason. Postage for me is also very expensive being in Australia. There may be local places that can fix them but we live in the land of the great rip off here so it's better to buy reco. I'm pretty confident based on my tests that it isn't a switch or power issue but please advise if you think that is the only way to explain it.

 

Thanks anyone...

[RivNut]

From the section of the wiring diagram that you show, it looks to me like the yellow wire is is the 12V source from the switch to both  the motor and the washer; go from there. It looks like the yellow wire is the same on the motor and in the diagram.and that agrees with the manual.  Apparently from looking at a wiring diagram, the motor body itself is not the ground, unlike power window motors.  The light blue wire and the black wire running to the motor are the two wires from the switch that complete the circuit, one for the low speed, one for the high speed.  Same with the washer, the black wire completes the circuit back to the switch.  There's  only one yellow wire and it jumpers from the motor to the washer pump.  In order to test it, you'd have to 'hot wire' the yellow to the + 12V source and one of the other colors to the - of the 12V source. 

 

Without a power source to the wiper motor, can you turn the armature inside the case?  Do the brushes in the case look okay?   You might look for some very small holes in the case close to where the brushes are.  If you can find some, you can probably compress the brushes against the spring and insert a small diameter wire into the hole and hold the brushes in place. Once the case is bolted back together, remove the wires.  I'm saying this only as a WAG based on other motors that I've had apart.  If this is what you've done and you can't get either motor to work, I'm at a loss. 

 

Make it easy on yourself.  I'm betting that there's an automotive electrical shop in your area somewhere that could clean up the armatures, check all the connections, put new brushes in the case, and have this all done fairly cheaply.  What did you do to check the switch and make sure that it's not the culprit?

 

Ed

[Mozzie]

It's been a while since my last update. I've been slowly pulling the car apart and labeling / bagging everything. I've also had to buy some more tools and money is slowing me down a bit. I've got another small shipment of parts coming tomorrow including a Power seat relay (turns out it's the reason for my seat not working) a 2nd hand courtesy light switch (had been completely removed after the lever broke off) and some chrome parts such as window winders which are cheaper to just replace rather than try to re-chrome. The big shipment I'm saving up for will be all the suspension, rubbers and seat covers - that one will have to go in a container by ship.

 

After my previous posts I tested the wiper switch to determine if it was the cause of my problems. It's been a while now but the result seemed to indicate it works. It gave 3 combinations of earth and no earth at the two terminals (the centre being power). So I'm going to get the motor rebuilt.

 

All my other electrical demons have now been resolved more or less.

The outstanding problem I have is the drivers window track arm (for want of a better term) which is broken and seems to be broken on a majority of Rivieras. I had a guy at work weld it (I'm a mechanical engineer at an antenna manufacturer) and it distorted somewhat. It's broken in the area that is the bearing surface between the window mounting  so unless you can weld it well enough to grind it smooth on both sides it's never going to work anyway (see picture). So the only alternative is to leave it off or have a new one fabricated. I modeled it up in Solidworks and kept the existing design as virtually none of it can change. I decided to make it two parts that screw together with two M3 screws so that if it seizes the screws will break instead of the arm. Aluminium isn't a great option for a material as it has a horrible coefficient of friction so I'm actually thinking of getting it made out of Delrin. It doesn't really need to be that strong as it simply gets pulled along by the frame and keeps the window straight by seating inside the window track on it's way up and down. The only reason why it breaks in my opinion is because the lubrication dries up and the pin and spring washer/plate corrode and seize the bracket. With Delrin that will never happen. The pin can be made on a lathe and rather than the semi tubular rivet with a shoulder of the original design it could just be a circlip on the end. Anyway, I'll see how it goes. I'm sure other people have some opinions on this but I'll go ahead with the Delrin option and you can watch me fail - either way it's worth a shot. I'll post something when I finally get the plastic place to make it for me.

I've now taken the doors completely apart and off the car. I've also removed the dash. The glove box is broken around the latch (surprise surprise). The gauge lens on both the speedo and idiots lights are cracked in various places around the edges. I have no idea what caused this and haven't seen it on another car. I'll have to try and find some replacements as I want it to look as perfect as possible. I've got a large quantity of parts that all either need re-plating, repainting or replacement. It will be nice to one day actually fix something...

 

[rodneybeauchamp]

Hi Mozzie,

Welcome to Rivieras Down Under, if we keep this rate up they will be so rare in the States, they may start importing them back. Still you can't fault good taste!

Looks a reasonably clean car, similar to what you often see, nice paint and trim but engine bays need TLC.

Have had great service from local shop American Auto Parts in Victoria, who seem to keep first generation Riviera parts on the shelf.

Also the ROA have a great bunch of very helpful members and this forum is addictive. The Australian chapter of the ROA are very friendly and always helpful.

Garage looks a great place to while away a few hours and a lot of dollars on " automotive silliness" ( would like to thank the member who has that as part of their signature, it says it all!

Good luck with your ride,

Kind regards

Rodney

[RivNut]

Your Riviera is no different than any other Rivieras except a few lucky one.  It's my opinion that those arms get broken because of the way the doors were closed; using the top of the window glass instead of the door handle.  That arm is the adjustment arm that seats the top of the widow against the seal. 

 

When you've taken a few of these apart, you'll find that the passenger's side is much less likely to be broken than the driver's side.  When you go about looking for one, be advised that the entire piece for a '63 is different from the '64/'65 piece.  This is because the 63 glass is pressed into a channel that is bolted to the regulator and the '64/'65 glass is bolted on to an arm that is attached to the regulator.   If you can make just the half that gets broken and figure out a good way to secure to the half that bolts to the regulator, you'll probably come up with a nice cottage industry.  

 

On the other hand, your window works fine with the broken piece and it's out of sight.  Just don't go through any high pressure washes.

 

Ed

[Mozzie]

Thanks Rodney, I've joined the ROA but so far I haven't found it nearly as usefull as this site. The main reason why I chose the Riviera is because I was so sick of seeing Camaros, Chargers and Mustangs at every show I go to. The Buick is cheaper and offers so much more not to mention it's more unique. There are three that go to a regular cruise night near where I live but they are all 65's. I'd never actually seen one in the flesh until I bought mine.

Ed, My Riviera is one of the few 64' models that have the glass pressed into the channel (it must be an early one). I never see the arm for sale probably because they are all broken and you have to drill out the pin to remove it anyway. If my Delrin part doesn't work out I may just have to leave it off. If the parts breaks from fatigue by pushing on the glass the Delrin may be a better option. Mine was not only rusted around the pin but the roller was firmly stuck inside the cam guide - so solid in fact it took a lot to get it out. I can see why Buick designed it the way they did but it's practically destined to fail by design. Still, I'll give Buick credit for designing doors that don't rust out and a whole bunch of other things they did right. GM had a local company here (Holden) that shared some similarities in chassis and other parts during the 70's. What amazes me is how much more complex and over engineered the Buick is by comparison. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are probably twice as many parts as there are in a similar Holden. If they sold Rivieras here no one in the country would have been able to afford them.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Mozzie (see edit history)

[RivNut]

 I've got some other questions for you then.  How do your door hinge bolts, bolt to the door.  Are the heads of the bolts accessible from the door jamb or do you need to remove the door skin to access them.  What is the build date on your data plate, I've never seen any '64's with the press in door glass.

 

I have a friend who helped me do some body work on my Riviera.  He's made his living restoring Mustangs.  He said the same thing about over engineering when we got into the body on my car.

 

Ed

[Mozzie]

Hi Ed,
Would I be right in saying this was made the 3rd week of December 1964? In which case I take back what I said about it being an early build.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Mozzie (see edit history)

[RivNut]

Well this becomes interesting.  Yes, you have a 3rd week of December build date.  Yes you have windows that are pressed into a channel, and yes your doors bolt to the hinge from the door jamb.  My 03C built '64 has the same door bolts but has the bolt on window glass.  Perhaps a mid year production change.   Too bad those curved adjustment arms are not interchangeable side for side. 

 

Now, I want everyone who owns a '64 to 1) take a picture of the data plate, and 2) pull a door skin and take a picture of the way the window is fastened to the regulator.*

 

 

Does anyone have a collection of service bulletins that may address this?

 

You noticed that my earlier post #22, that I said most of the time it was only the driver's side that was broken - I see that your passenger's side is still intact.  We manly men and our determination to get that door shut tight - grab the top of the window and give it a hard fling.  The more gentile sex doesn't tear things up like we guys do so their stuff survives.  I have a few older bicycles - nine in fact, the earliest is a 1935 Elgin, and the newest is am '84 Schwinn - both boys and girls bikes.  The boys bikes I find are usually wrecks - dented fenders, broken spokes, bent pedals, scuffed seats, worn handle bar grips, but the kick stands are good - remember how we dismounted our bikes?  On the run and let them fall where they may.  Whereas the girls bikes are in pretty good shape but the kickstands are usually pretty loose.  The girls get off properly and stand the bike like it was designed.  Probably the same with cars or the side of the car in which each sex spent the most time.

 

Ed

 

* Just joking of course.  

[Seafoam65]

                   OK everybody with a 64......it's time to man up!  When you get home tonight after you have finished voting, you need to head out to the garage and yank off that door skin......Ed needs info for his survey!  It will seem less painful if you grab a Bud on the way out to the garage!

[RivNut]

 

 

 

 

Ed

 

* Just joking of course.

Winston is a bigger joker than I am.

[1965rivgs]

Well this becomes interesting.  Yes, you have a 3rd week of December build date.  Yes you have windows that are pressed into a channel, and yes your doors bolt to the hinge from the door jamb.  My 03C built '64 has the same door bolts but has the bolt on window glass.  Perhaps a mid year production change.   Too bad those curved adjustment arms are not interchangeable side for side. 

 

Now, I want everyone who owns a '64 to 1) take a picture of the data plate, and 2) pull a door skin and take a picture of the way the window is fastened to the regulator.*

 

 

Does anyone have a collection of service bulletins that may address this?

 

You noticed that my earlier post #22, that I said most of the time it was only the driver's side that was broken - I see that your passenger's side is still intact.  We manly men and our determination to get that door shut tight - grab the top of the window and give it a hard fling.  The more gentile sex doesn't tear things up like we guys do so their stuff survives.  I have a few older bicycles - nine in fact, the earliest is a 1935 Elgin, and the newest is am '84 Schwinn - both boys and girls bikes.  The boys bikes I find are usually wrecks - dented fenders, broken spokes, bent pedals, scuffed seats, worn handle bar grips, but the kick stands are good - remember how we dismounted our bikes?  On the run and let them fall where they may.  Whereas the girls bikes are in pretty good shape but the kickstands are usually pretty loose.  The girls get off properly and stand the bike like it was designed.  Probably the same with cars or the side of the car in which each sex spent the most time.

 

Ed

 

* Just joking of course.

Ed,

  Early `64`s have the `63 style arrangement. The arm breaks because the pivot point seizes. This happens most often in the driver`s door for the same reason everything in the driver`s door breaks more often than the passenger door, more duty cycles.

  Tom

[RivNut]

Ed,

  Early `64`s have the `63 style arrangement. The arm breaks because the pivot point seizes. This happens most often in the driver`s door for the same reason everything in the driver`s door breaks more often than the passenger door, more duty cycles.

  Tom

Thanks Tom,

 

Between this 12C car and my 3C car we've narrowed down the dates of the change.  Can anyone give us info on cars built between these dates and how your windows are fastened to the regulator?

 

I would think that the more that something is used the less chance there would be for it to seize.  In your experience, have you figured out a solution for replacing/fixing this arm?

 

Ed

Edited March 2, 2016 by RivNut (see edit history)

[1965rivgs]

Thanks Tom,

 

Between this 12C car and my 3C car we've narrowed down the dates of the change.  Can anyone give us info on cars built between these dates and how your windows are fastened to the regulator?

 

I would think that the more that something is used the less chance there would be for it to seize.  In your experience, have you figured out a solution for replacing/fixing this arm?

 

Ed

I have the VIN number transition but will have to look it up...use causes any lubricant to be consumed or dissipate, a 50 year old car experiences extended periods of inactivity, eventually the arm breaks when used. I have disassembled these and found the pivots in tact but completely frozen requiring much attention to free them up. I have a stash of in tact pivots to be used when I rebuild a door.

  Tom

[Guest BigNorm]

 The gauge lens on both the speedo and idiots lights are cracked in various places around the edges. I have no idea what caused this and haven't seen it on another car. I'll have to try and find some replacements as I want it to look as perfect as possible. I've got a large quantity of parts that all either need re-plating, repainting or replacement. It will be nice to one day actually fix something...

 

i've got a couple of lenses here in perth you can have. they're not mint but they're pretty good. if they're better than yours then you are welcome to them.

[Mozzie]

Hey Norm,
 

You are a legend, thank you. They look a lot better than mine - I can't see any cracks for starters. Apart from being cracked all over the place mine have a lot of tiny scratches but once I cleaned them they look pretty clear to see through to the gauge. So as long as they're not cracked, tiny marks or scratches are okay by me. I'll send you a PM. Cheers.

[Guest dwhiteside64]

Hi Ed,

Would I be right in saying this was made the 3rd week of December 1964? In which case I take back what I said about it being an early build.

Mozzie,

Just to make things a bit clearer, a 12C build date would be the third week in December 1963, not 1964.

[Mozzie]

Thanks Darren - that would make sense. I'm guessing they call it a 64 model but actually release it late the year before.

Anyway, I've progressed some more with the dismantling.  I removed most of the firewall components. The heater, AC, park brake, steering column etc. The front panels and radiator are also off. I had a problem getting the transmission lines disconnected. The nut would not turn on the line so as I undid it the line twisted. In hindsight I should have applied some heat or something (I used WD40 to no avail).. I've found places that make stainless lines for a 65' model which I would have thought were the same but you never know with these cars. Otherwise I'll have to get some made but I'd prefer to buy off the shelf as they will have the most accurate bends in them. 

I originally planned on not replacing the heater core or blower but now that I've seen how hard it is to remove this stuff I think it's wise to just replace as much as possible. The firewall insulation also came apart so if I replace that I don't want to have to pull the heater ducting off it again at a later date. The grommet for the AC lines does not seem to have a replacement so I guess I'll have to reuse it. There is also a rubber seal around the opening for the duct that connects to the blower assembly on the firewall - this is not much good but once again, I see no replacement. One of the problems with having a car blasted and rebuilt from scratch is you have to remove absolutely everything so some parts that no one ever removes end up coming off. In the end it will be a nice build but I'm being very careful to document everything. Anyone can just pull a car apart but as I can't remember what I did yesterday I don't trust myself to remember in a years time how this thing goes together. I bought a label maker and seal-able bags. Everything I take off I photograph and label. Usually I show the screws next to their holes then put them all in a bag. I also number each stage so I can reference the photos back to the parts. Very nerdy I know - but I'll thank myself in future.

One thing I was extra careful of was the vacuum lines. I labeled the colors on the heater controls and pulled out the whole bundle through the hole in the firewall. I'm planning to replace them with new ones (someone had a link in another post for Ames Performance - GM seems to use the same color coded tube on everything). One thing I noticed is the hose that goes from the vacuum reservoir was quite loose and did not seem like the right size. When I unplugged it the hose just fell on the floor - it didn't seem to be connected to anything! The fitting on the manifold for vacuum has been blocked off. Am I right in assuming this is where the line from the vacuum reservoir goes? There was obviously a problem on this car (or many) and the system was disconnected and the belts for the AC removed and replaced with non AC belts. I'm just assuming that everything has had it because I don't want to put it all back together all nicely painted and find things don't work. 

p.s. I notice all my previous pictures are not visible - I hope it's something that's only temporary with the new webpage update. Not much point in having a build blog otherwise.

• 

 

[Mozzie]

It's been a while since I posted any progress. I've pretty much stripped the body completely now and fortunately didn't find anything else bad. Everything is photographed, bagged and tagged except for the obvious stuff. I've also ordered about 6.5k USD worth of parts which is going in a container next week for delivery to Australia. It's an expensive process getting it all here and I decided to do it in two lots. The next shipment will include all interior and any remaining small stuff to finish it off. This order was for all air con, heating, suspension, front end, rubbers, muffler and various other parts to finish the rolling chassis.

Todays job was to finally get the body off the chassis and onto the rotisserie. Being a full chassis this is tricky as the front rotisserie mount needs to go where the engine is. In the end I bought a gantry crane to lift the front up and half the rotisserie to lift the rear. I jacked up the back under the diff, put axle stands with wooden blocks next to the chassis mounts and then lowered the chassis down leaving the body with enough room to fit the rear brackets. I took the rear wheels off for this part to get a bit more room. The front half I lifted with the gantry and put some wood packers under the sills to distribute the load a bit more evenly. The rotisserie in the fully extended position gave only about an inch clearance from the rear suspension to the floor to roll the chassis out of the way - lucky. I used the trusty Subaru to pull the chassis out of the way as there were only two of us for this job. Then we mounted the rest of the rotisserie in place. I haven't tried rotating it yet but it will probably need a little extra adjustment. It all went quite smoothly with no damage to anything. The brackets for the rotisserie were modified with angle welded on to use the chassis mounts. Obviously the rear suspension chassis mount position is not supported with this set up but I'm thinking I might put some stands with lengths of wood at those points so when I'm not working on it the body is fully supported as it would be on the chassis.

Next part is to restore/paint the chassis and everything on it. A job made much easier without the body in the way. The body will be going off to get blasted and will be primed in epoxy with the underside fully painted before it goes back on the chassis. After that I'll do some more work before it goes for the rest of the body and paint. 

[Mozzie]

It's been a long time since I posted. The project sat around for quite some time (mostly because I bought 2 other cars) but last year I got stuck into the chassis/driveline side of things. I ended up building a spray booth and painting parts myself in 2 pack (mostly using Valspar Industrial which is the black satin chassis finish, this is a very hard finish). The end result is all new suspension, brakes, bushes and front end. New A/C compressor, rebuilt power steering pump and box and a whole lot of other parts. Engine and trans did not require rebuild but I replaced gaskets and water pump etc.
I found the painting okay but it can be tricky with gun settings, temperature etc. A number of things had to be redone due to paint too dry or runs. The Valspar satin cannot be sanded and buffed so it has to be perfect straight from the gun. There were other thing such as using a sand blasting cabinet (Cheap Harbor freight one which is a POS) and blackeneing hardware etc. Shocks from Jamco didn't fit and had to be modified. The Pro6ten AC compressor had to be moved forward on the bracket due to interference with the pulley bolts. This required some bushes to be made. The front end bushes and the prop-shaft were also a pain. Most of the work however was cleaning, blasting and painting. Next up is the body which I've decided to have professionally resprayed. I was originally going with the factory color but I've decided to change it to a custom color.

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Mozzie
extra wording (see edit history)

[Mozzie]

 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Mozzie (see edit history)

[NC1968Riviera]

@Mozzie It definitely looks like you know what you are doing my friend. I can't wait to see the end result! 

Edited May 1, 2020 by NC1968Riviera (see edit history)

[telriv]

Mozzie,

 

    Not to criticize you at all BUT it appears to me that the pic of the brakes is the left rear. IF that's so the brake shoes are on backwards.  The primary shoe, the front one, is on the rear & the secondary shoe is on the front.  IF all the brake shoes are orientated like that they are ALL BACKWARDS.  The primary shoe, the short one, needs to be on the FRONT & the secondary shoe, the longer one, needs to be at the REAR.

   Braking will not be up to standards if they aren't properly installed.

 

OTHER THAN that one thing the work & progress look top notch!!!

 

Tom T.