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LIT MUSE

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And here goes that can o worms again! Lots of posts on here about that very thing. Biggest issue seems to be whether an insurance company finding out the TC no longer has ABS would reneg on coverage. Conversion can be done but please keep records of what parts are used on a metal tag attached to the car somewhere for future owners.

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Antilock and brake lights (on the left side warning lights panel) coming on momentary when stepping on the brake pedal. They turn off immediately after.. Any idea what is it? Thx.

Could be a couple of different causes and a weak pump is one of them, but odds are that you need a new accumulator.

 

The shop manual has a very good section on these brakes and similar descriptions of your reported problem have been discussed at length over the years on this forum and whether you decide to fix this yourself, or take it into a shop for repair, it would be to your benefit to read the manual and all the prior postings.

 

There is a down and dirty poor mans test for the accumulator that's been written up here many times and because everyone has their own idea of what constitutes a light quick tap on the brake peddle it's only about half accurate. That is, it won't tell you not to replace a bad accumulator, but it can tell you to replace an accumulator before you need to.

 

As for making any significant change to the brake system I have to agree with Ghostly's post above "Biggest issue seems to be whether an insurance company finding out the TC no longer has ABS would reneg on coverage." So if you do significantly alter the brake system you best get a certified safety inspection and if you do remove the ABS notify your insurance carrier. Better to pay a couple dollars more a year for coverage because your company knows you don't have ABS than give them a reason not to pay a claim.

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Thank you all for the great response.i will definitely go back and read past posts on this issue before deciding what to do.

Sounds like modifying the brake system(no ABS) is not that recommended and beside who would like to deal with insurance anyway?

The repair shop first comment was bad brake pump. They notice that when the engine is off pedal sink too much sign of internal leak. Lights are treagered from switches inside the pump. I would leave the car for analysis before changing parts. I'm not sure if changing the accumulator along solved the issues in the past. Sound like the self accumulator test leads to decisions that may not solve the problem. I saw that TC PARTS are selling remanufactured pumps. Did anyone have experience those. Any information about pump part number or good place to buy will be appticated. Thanks again!

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"The repair shop first comment was bad brake pump. They notice that when the engine is off pedal sink too much sign of internal leak. Lights are treagered from switches inside the pump."

 

Our brakes are not vacuum operated and they don't care if the engine is running so long as the key is ON, we also have an actuator, not a master cylinder. They are different.

 

Our brake switch reads the business end of the pump, so it's also reading reservoir pressure of the accumulator. Reading the brake section of the TC manual will tell you how to test pressure and you will know if the shop is giving you the straight poop, or just blowing smoke.

 

The only people I know that like doing paperwork for insurance companies are lawyers and like it or not, sometimes paperwork is necessary. When your brakes become unreliable, replacing with a reliable system is a common and accepted practice. In states that have annual safety inspections, finding a place to get safety certified is fairly easy. In states that don't, finding a state certified safety certifier outside a major metropolitan area can be a bit challenging. I live in a state that doesn't have an annual vehicle safety inspection and my plan is to upgrade to ABS with traction and stability control when the day comes that my brakes reach that point. For some reason insurance agents here don't ask for safety inspection papers when brake systems are improved.  

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First thing first...simple key on check showed the pump worked fine and the lights go off. This is true with engine running too. The pump stop working assuming the accumulator is charged and the lights go off. Quick tapping the pedal and the lights come on and go off. Gentle slow tapping on the pedal do not turn on the lights. Is that a clue to something? My wild guess is the accumulator do not hold enough pressure and the pump momentary compensate it.

Going to do the Reatta brake troubleshooting process and record the results. hopefully it's only the accumulator and not the all actuator assembly, this will probably the next item to replace. That probably meaning ending up with an extra accumulator...

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The Reatta test didn't help much to understand the cause, worming lights come and go in every tap on the brake pedal. Pump and indications work fine. I don't think it is related to electrical problem rather to braking pressure. The common sence say change accumulator first before changing the all module. I guess people replace the accumulator by them self and there are some precaution to take place before. I'll need to read previous posts about it.

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#1 Bleed the pressure. a good 20 slow, with switch OFF, peddle to the floor pushes, wait a bit and do it again before removal. If the bladder had a pin hole leak the gas side will fill with fluid and when the fluid side of the bladder becomes the air side it's only a matter of time before it spits. So do it slow wait a bit and do it again. If you had a leaky one, it might still spit after removal, but it won't spit as much. Remember to wear your safety glasses.

 

#2 Put an open end wrench on the standoff and secure that wrench any way you can to make sure you don't brake the standoff when you remove the ball up top. They are made to self lock and they do a darn fine job of it. The first one eight turn is the only tough turn you'll make and it might take a big pipe wrench on the nipple to get the job done.

 

I learned something when the guy with the Jaguar spewed brake fluid after removing the accumulator.  Not to long ago I guessed at a reason for a fluid bleeding procedure I'd learned a while back and I was wrong, it has nothing to do with getting all the air out to increase the life of the bladder. The procedure is messy, unnecessary and it doesn't get all the air out. It does get enough out to run a "non book" "eye ball test" to see if you have just installed an accumulator with a leaking bladder, before you sign the job off as done. Long time ago, 30 years + or -, some manufacturer had a quality control issue, and mechanics were calling these things brake bombs because of the way the would blow after removal. I never gave any thought as to how our style of accumulator got charged with nitrogen, but if they fill it with a needle like it's a football and you know you have a bunch of accumulators with bad bladders, the test is worth the mess.The guy in Russia had one spew after bleeding down and removing one that was only a few weeks old. It could have been the wrong pressure ball, or it could have had a bad bladder from the get-go, or it could have gotten a small piece of metal in the mix when he had the end re-threaded to fit. Doesn't really matter what caused his to blow, the important thing is that these things can, so take your time and wear those safety glasses.

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Very good information Digger914, thank you! I am surprised that the accumulator does not have a release valve for the gas before removing the accumulator from the standoff. This is a basic precaution step in any accumulator removal( at least in aircrafts use).

 

I would like one more time to clarify the latest on the accumulator. Many previous discussions here about the part number and where to buy it. I did see the accumulator in Amazon and question if it adequate. TC-parts is always a good source as well as as ebay.

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 I am surprised that the accumulator does not have a release valve for the gas before removing the accumulator from the standoff. This is a basic precaution step in any accumulator removal

( at least in aircrafts use).

 

I would like one more time to clarify the latest on the accumulator. Many previous discussions here about the part number and where to buy it.

I did see the accumulator on Amazon and question if it adequate.

 

The method used to relieve the HYDRAULIC pressure, by pumping the brake pedal, is the only way to relieve the HYDRAULIC pressure built up by the HYDRAULIC pump.

The gas pressure in the accumulator, above the diaphragm, should and is not ever manually relieved. 

I am sure there may be several sources for the accumulator on Amazon, I can only say that you need to check each one out as well as the proper application to the TC.

All this difficulty in acquiring parts for this antiquated ABS system is precisely why I removed it from my personal TC and replaced it with a 'normal' brake vacuum booster system.

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Hemi dude thanks for the explanations though I did see releasing the gas(above the diagram) before removal in other car brand (clips in you tube).

What's the latest in ordering accumulator for our cars? Amazon don't have it or have only have it for other cars, TC-parts are out of stock, spinning wheels out of stock, gm-supercharge.com site don't work. Is their known email address mentioned in the past works?

Any help will be appreciated. Thanks !

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Is there a site that details how to replace the Teves system with a "normal" brake vacuum system?

If you look closely at the 2 links I have in everything I write here, you will see the link you are looking for.

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