Buy Gold or Classic Cars in todays world??

[lincolnmatthews]

I know this is a rather personel question, but I just don't know anymore. A little back ground, I'm pushing 60 own one full classic now that really needs a rebld V12  (about 7k from H & H) & a 20k paint job to be very nice. I also own a couple of nice older cars from the 70's (not high buck muscle cars). So I'm not really short of cars.

  I know we all think about the way the world & our currency is headed so I put this question out there to collectors, how far out do you feel comfortable investing in an older classic car. ( I know investing in cars has not really ever worked out well for me, other than I have gotten alot of enjoyment from them). I could have made out alot better by buying muscle cars of the 60's but chose the older cars.

 So let's say hypothetically one takes about 10% of his cash on hand & wants to buy a very nice mid 30's classic Packard Sedan, (not the most desirable I know, but a beautiful SR car) about $35-40k.

 Is this reckless? my parents would row over in there grave if they knew! I'm just a little concerned that if our dollar goes to $&*(() I might look back & say that I should have bought that classic Packard! (I know that in hard times you can't eat your old cars!) & we all should all have some gold on hand for bartering if it ever came to tough times.

  I know I have several issue's going on here, one is whether to dump 20-30k in an old 42 Continental that will only still be worth about 30k on a good day, or spend the 30-40k on another classic.

  Thought I would ask the question to car guys, some of whom own multiple cars, just how far out do you push it?

 Thank you for your honest thoughts & opionions!

[keiser31]

I know that this may sound like a rather simple answer, but if you are getting into an old car to put money into in order to make more money, you should be collecting art, stamps or stocks. Making a good profit or even making your money back on a restoration of a car is rare. There are way too many circumstances to consider and costs change rapidly. If I were going through what you are going through, I would keep the Continental, put money into it and enjoy it OR sell it and find something I really can enjoy now keeping in mind that you may not profit from it monetarily. Only you can make a sound decision for you. 

[JFranklin]

Since it is most likely that inflation will erode your monies buying potential, and currency collapse will erase it substantially, I would use it to get things done that need doing. If you want your car fixed do it now. Likewise spend on needed repairs to your house and any personal infrastructure that you will be needing in the future.

[nick8086]

May you should ask if the next generation will want the gold or the cars in the next 20 years..   I will ask my 10 year old... Time is another factor... If your ten years old..or 79 years old.

 

 

Personally i would buy a rental and get a 10% return... To fund the car hobby......or buy gold..

 

You should buy them all... If one goes down. the other may go up...

 

"Don't have all your eggs in one basket"

Edited September 20, 2015 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[GK1918]

Although not gold but a while back I took some silver dollars not mint but in good shape to three different coin dealers.  The highest

I could get was about $4.50 each?  I thought that was bull, walked out.  My way of thinking is a new 1923 Ford around $250 or so.

So 2 yrs ago I did buy a 23 Ford straight no rust (engine apart in boxes) but all there for $8,000. I did all the machine work.

About $500 in parts It mainly needed valves and new seats bottom good came with new pistons etc.. Not counting the engine, but

$8,000 divided by $250 in silver equals  $32 a coin.  ??  or is my arithmetic bad ?

Here is $8000 car as bought and runs perfectly.  And underneath is perfect as perfect NO RUST.

two owner car.   You be the judge.  sam

[John_S_in_Penna]

Mr. Matthews, I assume you are in the United States

and talking about U. S. currency.  Actually, the dollar

has strengthened by more than 20% just this year.

At first I thought you might be in the Euro zone or Australia,

since their currencies have recently been declining.  In recent

decades, currencies "float," or fluctuate against 

each other, as opposed to being fixed as they were long ago.

 

Over the years, people have found gold to be a VERY POOR

investment.  It is a commodity and, unlike cars, fluctuates

tremendously in times of economic concern.  If you were

buying some gold at $400 per ounce--and it stabilized around

that point for many years--you might have a point.  If you

are buying at the current $1100 per ounce, yes, it would go up

temporarily if the economy worsened, but over the long haul

you are likely to lose more than half of your investment

as the gold price gradually retreats to its historic norms.

 

You can enjoy your cars, but don't count them as investments

either, especially if you are pouring money into their restoration.

And cars have significant costs for storage and maintenance.

As others mentioned, well chosen real estate

or common stocks or stock-based mutual funds, have a 

good chance of achieving their historic-norm 10% annualized gains.

Edited September 19, 2015 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Guest AlCapone]

Invest wisely and generally old cars are not a wise investment. Most people will never recoup their investment in restoring an antique car. Last year it was oil, the year before silver. If you want to invest wisely put money away for you'd grandchildren's education, you can't lose. Wayne

[alsancle]

Cars are not liquid and require care and feeding or their value goes south.  For an investment I would look elsewhere.

[capngrog]

I can only echo the previous comments that collector cars are a poor investment ... if your only consideration is money.  The owner of a decent (not concours) drivable collector car can have a lot of fun with the car.  Driving it, showing it, meeting folks who share one's interests and values etc.  When it comes time to sell a classic car, if it has been well maintained, it can be sold for a significant $um, even if the selling price is less than its purchase price.  It's tough to put a price on all of the enjoyment one gets from the collector car experience, but that should be considered as part of the equation.

 

 A drivable car of whatever ilk will always have value (as transportation) ... unlike some stocks.  

 

Cheers,

Grog

[60FlatTop]

Cars are toys. You spend discretionary money on them.

 

If you are close to 60 you can read, write, and do math much better than most people under 50. If you know how to shoot a good game of pool you can outperform them in a stellar manner.

 

A wise investor would look at successful businesses in "third world" countries, identify one that suits their skills, and create an S corporation providing that service or product in the US. Hire a good accountant to meet with on at least a monthly basis.

 

Then you will have confidence in your ability to survive for another four or five decades. AND buy some really good cars when the eminent deals come along.

 

Collector cars are toys.

Bernie

Edited September 19, 2015 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

If I were in your shoes I would probably do the engine rebuild on the V 12, and hold off on the paint. Then use it for several years as is.  People are becoming much more appreciative of less than perfect vintage cars that actually get regular use.   Unless a person has lots of spare cash, vintage cars are a real gamble from an investment point of view. Specialist vintage car dealers are in a different category as they usually have a well established client base, and/ or a long standing reputation.

  Own it because you like it, if you make a little after a decade or two even better.  Unfortunately I doubt many of us have $450,000 cash on hand so I am glad you posed this as a theory related question. Those people are in a much different reality than the other 99% of us.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited September 19, 2015 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

Well, despite what the pundits on TV and radio are saying, the world isn't ending. Our economy isn't collapsing and the world isn't on the brink of the End Times. US currency is still the benchmark by which all others are measured and despite our politicians' repeated attempts to drive the whole thing into the ditch, no other currency has been as stable or reliable as the good old greenback. Regardless of which moron is elected in 2016, I strongly suspect things will continue, business as usual, for the forseeable future.

 

There, that said, cars are not an investment. You'd think otherwise by watching Velocity TV, but if you can break even on a car, you're doing about as well as can be expected. I think a blue-chip Classic like a mid-30s Packard, even a sedan, will always have value and will always have a ready, willing, and able pool of buyers, and while it won't appreciate radically, it will always be worth about what you paid for it, maybe a little extra to cover what you'd spend maintaining and insuring it. It will NOT pay for your retirement in 10 years.

 

The whole point of old cars is fun. We're quickly losing sight of that and everyone gets hung up on dollars and investing and pedigrees. I repeatedly compare old car collecting to a vacation, meaning that you spend your money, you have your fun, and you don't worry about the costs. If we were golfers, we'd spend an equally large pile of money, get a sunburn and a hangover, and have exactly nothing to show for it, making cars a good place to simply "park" some money and "rent" your fun because it offers a payback of some kind when you're done. But it's unreasonable to expect old cars to simply get more valuable because they're getting older. Demographics are changing, and I've been predicting a fairly serious collapse in values of low-end old cars like 1920s and 1930s 4-door sedans, especially orphan brands. My kids are immersed in the hobby on a daily basis and while one of them has a few inklings of being a car guy, I bet neither of them wants to join the hobby in a serious way, not ever. And they're not alone--the next generation of car collectors will look very different and we're going to see larger and larger collections consolidated around fewer and fewer old guys.

 

So, that's a lot of words to say that you should do what makes you happy and forget the "investment" side of it. If you like your Lincoln, rebuild the engine and have fun with it. Paint, meh, who cares? I like to drive, I don't like to show, and cosmetic perfection is an unattainable dream that simply siphons resources from getting the cars to work properly. And if you want a Packard, you really can't go wrong with that, but buy it because you feel it in your heart, not because your balance sheet says it might be smarter than a stock portfolio, because it ain't.

 

Have fun. If the end times are coming, who cares about money anyway? Enjoy your time HERE and NOW, not worrying about a later that may not come.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

It all depends on what car, what day, and how rare/desirable it is when you sell it.  The wrong car you will lose your shirt,  The right car on the right day you will do well.  The trick is in owning the right Crystal ball to predict the future. 

[Matt Harwood]

And if you want some advice on a car that might be a smart "investment," go buy the absolute nicest BMW 2002 that you can find RIGHT THIS MINUTE and hold it for 3-5 years. You can thank me later.

[John_S_in_Penna]

...Demographics are changing, and I've been predicting a fairly serious collapse in values of low-end old cars like 1920s and 1930s 4-door sedans, especially orphan brands.... 

 

And if you want some advice on a car that might be a smart "investment," go buy the absolute nicest BMW 2002 that you can find RIGHT THIS MINUTE and hold it for 3-5 years. You can thank me later.

 

Matt, thank you for your market insights.

Since you're immersed in old cars daily,

your observations are especially interesting.

 

I see 1960's cars, especially mid-size models,

as the big interest now, with 1970's cars coming on.

I also see 1950's cars beginning to wane a little bit.

I don't mean that 1950's cars are forgotten, but

they're not the be-all and end-all of the market as

perhaps 1959 Cadillacs were in the 1990's.

When our AACA region has a tour or a picnic,

late 1950's-1972 cars come out in force, while cars such as

1932 Franklins, 1940 Chevrolets, and even 1955 Fords,

appear once a year at our big annual car show.

 

Since popularity affects value, any other thoughts

would be welcome.

Edited September 19, 2015 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

I'm still waiting for that huge drop in full classic 30's convertibles they have been predicting for years so I can buy that Auburn cheap as all those guys that lusted after one have passed on.  

Still waiting...

Still waiting..........

Yeah I didn't think so.  

In fact they seem to be going up.  Especially Auburn Speedsters. 

 

I do like cars over stocks.  You have some control over the car,  the condition,  the way it's marketed,  the fact that even if the market takes a noise drive,  you still have something besides a piece of paper that says you once owned something great before ...............

[1937hd45]

I've never had the funds to flip cars, but I've bought car parts by the box lot or truck load. Never sat down and ran the numbers but I'm sure parts turn a better and quicker profit. They take up less space, you can mail or FedEx them, and there is no upkeep. Bob 

[motoringicons]

You've worked hard and now you have some money to spend. Go out, spend it and enjoy it while you can. Ask yourself this question: How long are you going to be dead? 

[JV Puleo]

I'm still waiting for that huge drop in full classic 30's convertibles they have been predicting for years so I can buy that Auburn cheap as all those guys that lusted after one have passed on.  

Still waiting...

Still waiting..........

 

 

 

Oddly enough, I've been waiting for all the big brass cars that were going to be cheap and plentiful after the collectors who remembered them from their youth passed on. I've been waiting since the mid-70s and I guess is just isn't going to happen.

 

Though it isn't easy for most people to recognize, quality holds its value. I don't think any 20s or 30s Packards have gone to the junk yard for a long time and I don't think, despite all the gloom & doom talk, any will be in the future. What doesn't hold its value well are "fads." Differentiating between fads and long-term value is often hard to do but it does seem that there are two overiding factors today — initial quality (usually reflected by price) and original condition. As far as I'm concerned, the emphasis on preservation in old cars is long overdue but was inevitable as the hobby matures. Virtually all other areas of serious collecting place a premium on untampered with items although I admit that cars present unique problems in that, unlike paintings or Georgian silver, they need to be actively maintained. Still, this can be done in a sympathetic manner and I expect we will see more of it in the future.

 

All that said, I do not think cars are a good investment. They simply aren't liquid enough, the cost of upkeep is ongoing and the likelihood of breaking even, much less making a real profit, is problematical.

Edited September 20, 2015 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[Guest Skyking]

No matter what the pundits say I have never lost money on an old car. Actually, I made money.....

[auburnseeker]

I just lost a little on one I sold,  but if the person I had inspect it in the first place would have done the tiniest bit better job that wouldn't have happened. 

[padgett]

Also have not lost money on cars but the only reliable moneymaker (if you know what you are doing) is land. ANYTHING else is transient. Amazing thing about the car hobby is that I do not know of a gasoline automobile that can't just go to a gas pump and fill up (under $2.00 a gallon this morning - don't know for how long, since 1975 my comparison is that a gallon of milk and a gallon of gas cost the same)

 

Suspect when/if that ends (most of Europe is diesel now but I have hope for DI/turbo on 87 PON) the hobby is going to shift dramatically. OTOH million dollar cars at auctions seem commonplace, key is to pick the right one.

 

For me all of my cars are drivers & keep them that way. If I ever show a car it will be the 88 Reatta coupe and for the CRT in the dash. But the AC must work.

[Ed Luddy]

And if you want some advice on a car that might be a smart "investment," go buy the absolute nicest BMW 2002 that you can find RIGHT THIS MINUTE and hold it for 3-5 years. You can thank me later.

Hmmm... a friend of mine has an original Fuel Injected 2002 coupe that was going to be restored but is gathering dust in his garage. It's Apple green and supposed to be very rare?

[Walt G]

I totally agree with what my friend Matt Harwood says, well stated! also with what motoring icons has stated "enjoy it while you can".

Life is short , sometimes much shorter then you can ever imagine, this comes from personal experience. If you have enough $ to live reasonably comfortably

the roof over your head doesn't leak, there is food on the table, and your property taxes are paid, then you have earned the right ot have a bit of fun while still vertical.

 

John S in Penna. - if more of us who own pre war cars take them to club events and cruise nights it may inspire others who own vehicles of similar vintage to take their cars

out and leave the post wars cars you mention home once and a while. Also give someone who only owns a 1950s to 70s car a ride in your prewar machine, or at least let them sit in it.. Most never have had the experience and I am sure would have a much greater appreciation for the older machinery if they did.

[1912Staver]

I like 70's BMW's quite a bit . Prefer 3.0  CS's over 2002"s, but up here in the Pacific N.W, they tend to be as least as rusty as Alfa GTV's,  I suppose if you can afford to shop in say Arizona and transport home it might pay off, but who are the eventual customers ?  Wealthy Germans I suppose, but they are already pretty big in the sports and GT export market. What's so special about 2002's ? There are quite a few cars in the same category. With about the same odds of being the next big thing. TI's and TII's have been on most BMW guy's list for the last 20 years. Once you factor in the typical rust repair that 90 % of them will require, I don't see any room for profit. The really good ones  for the most part already have pretty astute owners.

 

Greg in Canada

[John_S_in_Penna]

 

Oddly enough, I've been waiting for all the big brass cars that were going to be cheap and plentiful after the collectors who remembered them from their youth passed on. I've been waiting since the mid-70s and I guess is just isn't going to happen.

 

Interesting observation!  So the brass cars were

going to be forgotten, people thought?

 

I will say, though, that post-Horseless Carriage Club cars--

from 1916 to around 1927--are pretty much moribund

these days.  One dedicated car fan I know calls them "dark era" cars,

because they aren't as flashy and because they are now overlooked.

People may admire a 1918 Buick or a 1923 Maxwell at Hershey,

but I think the number of people who actually aspire to OWN them

is very small.  At shows in the 1960's, they might have been common,

but now they tend to sit idle in the backs of older collectors' garages.

And their values today are modest accordingly.

Edited September 20, 2015 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[C Carl]

About 40 years ago I ran in to a Bon Vivant who refered to money as "Fun Coupons". I use that term from time to time. - Carl

[Matt Harwood]

I like 70's BMW's quite a bit . Prefer 3.0  CS's over 2002"s, but up here in the Pacific N.W, they tend to be as least as rusty as Alfa GTV's,  I suppose if you can afford to shop in say Arizona and transport home it might pay off, but who are the eventual customers ?  Wealthy Germans I suppose, but they are already pretty big in the sports and GT export market. What's so special about 2002's ? There are quite a few cars in the same category. With about the same odds of being the next big thing. TI's and TII's have been on most BMW guy's list for the last 20 years. Once you factor in the typical rust repair that 90 % of them will require, I don't see any room for profit. The really good ones  for the most part already have pretty astute owners.

 

Greg in Canada

 

It doesn't matter what YOU prefer, this conversation is about investments, not what car do you like best. I prefer to buy stocks in companies that are headquartered in the US, but if I did that, I'd be limiting possible ways to make money with the same amount of effort. Instead, I buy stocks that perform, regardless of origin, because my ONLY goal is to make money. It's not a preference thing when you're talking about investing, whether it's cars or stocks. There is only one right answer to the question, "Does it make money?"

 

And this isn't about a quick fix-and-flip, either. What I said was go buy the nicest 2002 you can find. That means one already done. Never mind restoring one, that's a loser in terms of "investments." You want to "invest" in a car, then spend the long dollar today to get a really good 2002, right now, today, whatever it costs. Hold it for 3-5 years. Profit.

 

You're saying exactly what the guys watching Mercedes "Pagoda" SLs were saying six years ago, back when a good one was $25-30,000. "Nah, they made too many of them, and they're under-powered rust buckets that cost a fortune to restore." Today, a #3+ or #2- 280SL will easily cost you $70-80,000, #1 cars are well over $100,000; there's one out there for $325,000 and nobody's laughing. The only thing that changed is the market, not the cars. The good ones are still good, and the guy who bought a good one for $30,000 in 2008 is now able to send his kid to college by doing nothing more than enjoying an old car for a few years and selling it to a hungry market. The same thing happened to Fiat Jollys, VW Microbuses, Jaguar E-Types, and Amphicars. Good ones were cheap forever, everyone assumed they'd stay cheap forever, and then suddenly they weren't.

 

There isn't a permanent, unchanging list of great cars. The market likes what it likes, and that changes from moment to moment. Who the hell would have thought a 1960 Mercedes 190SL could be a $150,000 car? They're TERRIBLE to drive, they're demonic in the way they rust, and everyone knows you're too poor to afford a "real" SL when you own one. Yet there they are...

 

Sure, maybe I'm wrong about the 2002. They've only doubled in value in the past 2 years. What do I know?

Edited September 21, 2015 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Sorry Matt, I didn't mean to doubt your knowledge of the investment side of collector cars.  It just didn't occur to me that there is anything special about 2002's.  I have been involved with most of the cheaper sports and GT's since the later 70's and am no doubt one of the people who assumes they will never see a big leap in prices.  But you can rest assured if anyone is misinformed about todays investment prospects it is me.

 I only buy cars that I like , and never as investments. An MGA , POS Lotus Cortina {but genuine}, TVR 2500 and a couple of old cars. I have owned most of them for a long time, and when my son inherits them he will probably turn them into cash. Probably more than I paid; and certainly more than he will ever pay, but the sale price won't mean much to me.

  And I agree 100% on 190 SL's, I didn't like them when they were the same $ as my MGA, and I still don't like them.  People that have money these days can sure find puzzling ways to spend it. But as you said we are talking about cars as investments, rather than the merits of specific cars.  I know a little bit about these cars, I know nothing about making money other than my normal pay cheque.

 

Greg in Canada

[1935Packard]

I agree with almost everything Matt Harwood says, with one trivial exception: I've always thought the 190SLs should be valuable, and I thought it odd when they were cheap. They have classic and beautiful styling and a gold-plated brand. Sure, they have anemic performance, but I suspect that over time style is becoming more important and performance less important to classic car values. When you can go 0-60 in 2.8 seconds in a 4-door Tesla sedan that is one of the safest cars on the road, do you really turn to a classic car for performance? The quickly rising prices for the Volvo 1800 and early Karmann Ghias reflect that trend, too.  And even if a 190SL says that you're too poor to drive a 300SL, the 300SLs are in the 1.5 million range these days.  If people are going to look down on you for not being able to afford a 7 figure car, then I suspect a lot of people can live with that.  With that said, what goes up so high can come down pretty quickly, so it seems like a risky time to buy one.

Edited September 21, 2015 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[capngrog]

It doesn't matter what YOU prefer, this conversation is about investments, not what car do you like best. I prefer to buy stocks in companies that are headquartered in the US, but if I did that, I'd be limiting possible ways to make money with the same amount of effort. Instead, I buy stocks that perform, regardless of origin, because my ONLY goal is to make money. It's not a preference thing when you're talking about investing, whether it's cars or stocks. There is only one right answer to the question, "Does it make money?"

 

And this isn't about a quick fix-and-flip, either. What I said was go buy the nicest 2002 you can find. That means one already done. Never mind restoring one, that's a loser in terms of "investments." You want to "invest" in a car, then spend the long dollar today to get a really good 2002, right now, today, whatever it costs. Hold it for 3-5 years. Profit.

 

You're saying exactly what the guys watching Mercedes "Pagoda" SLs were saying six years ago, back when a good one was $25-30,000. "Nah, they made too many of them, and they're under-powered rust buckets that cost a fortune to restore." Today, a #3+ or #2- 280SL will easily cost you $70-80,000, #1 cars are well over $100,000; there's one out there for $325,000 and nobody's laughing. The only thing that changed is the market, not the cars. The good ones are still good, and the guy who bought a good one for $30,000 in 2008 is now able to send his kid to college by doing nothing more than enjoying an old car for a few years and selling it to a hungry market. The same thing happened to Fiat Jollys, VW Microbuses, Jaguar E-Types, and Amphicars. Good ones were cheap forever, everyone assumed they'd stay cheap forever, and then suddenly they weren't.

 

There isn't a permanent, unchanging list of great cars. The market likes what it likes, and that changes from moment to moment. Who the hell would have thought a 1960 Mercedes 190SL could be a $150,000 car? They're TERRIBLE to drive, they're demonic in the way they rust, and everyone knows you're too poor to afford a "real" SL when you own one. Yet there they are...

 

Sure, maybe I'm wrong about the 2002. They've only doubled in value in the past 2 years. What do I know?

 

Wow, I'm impressed,

Grog

[60FlatTop]

Good comment to write at 9 PM on a Sunday night; better than a rerun of Columbo and you get get to go to bed with a growl.

 

Years ago a good friend with an impressive car collection and a dealership told me selling cars was not for people who liked cars; it was for people who liked money. That would apply to "investing" in cars as well. My personal view is that money has always been much easier to get than the exact car I want, but the money doesn't come from cars.

 

When BMS's came up I thought of the nicer 3.0 coupes right away. They will maintain a good price, but if the 2002 gets a growing loyalty they will be the car to score with. They are people outside today's paradigm. Who would have seen the popularity of a restaurant where you order at a counter and have to pick up your own food when it is ready, certainly not a Buick or Cadillac owner, a 2002 BMW owner? What's another inconvenience in life?

 

On the MB's, we are kind of an internal family financing group and my cousin bought a 190 SL in the early '60's. My Aunt, his bank, said there was no way he was going to spend $3500 for the gullwing.

Bernie

[mercer09]

a great question- I own both metals and cars and if looking at it from a pure investment, would have to side with metals.....................

 

as John from PA has mentioned gold-I was fortunate enough to put some away when it was 325. an oz and never looked back-it is nothing more then an insurance policy that will be passed along.

 

It takes 1250. to get an oz of gold out of the ground and 1450. an oz for platinum, so some could argue that metals are downright cheap. After all, the dollar has lost half it's value in the last ten years. Metals are also much easier to store and there is no "upkeep" to speak of.

 

with that said, I have 3x as much $ in my cars then metals-why? because I enjoy cars, so you must consider what gives you satisfaction in life. None of my cars are worth less then what I've paid for them, but that is because I've bought correctly. Yes, I should have bought some of the rarer cars mentioned and would have made a killing, but that isnt why I bought my cars. I bought them to enjoy and if bought wisely, you will not take a bath.....

With all of that said, I am slowly selling off a few cars to go more heavily into the metals-again why? Because as I get older, I am realizing that 20 cars is a bit excessive and that 5-6 would be plenty. They do take quite a bit of time and money to keep up, so age should also be a consideration.

[lincolnmatthews]

Wow thank you for all the well written, informative responces! I guess I should update my original question, I am looking at a mid 30's Packard Club Sedan. It appears to be a very nice car, but now would take about 22% of my cash on hand to purchase. Now I think I will pass on it because I just don't feel comfortable taking that much money to buy a car!

  I tend to lean toward conservative values, & feel that with our 18-20 trillion $ debt that the value of our $ is rapidly declining.Maybe I should take the money & buy what really would turn my old crank!  I wouldn't take 45k & put it into gold but like all of us" little peons"

(middle class) we don't want to loose our hard earned cash that we have in the banks to some politcal BS & go to some world currency that May make our current $ valueless.

  I'm certainly no economist, but when you hear that they May take our 401's etc to pay off the national debt, it makes one wonder if one should buy an old classic!

  I don't know anything really about the de-valueing of our dollar, but I assume that if I took 45k & bought a car & the dollar goes south, my Packard would also be value-less to??, gold may of course drop in value but one would be better off with gold (to barter with) than an old car?? Just throwing all this out there! certainly don't want to turn this into some political debate, thank you again for your thoughts

[nick8086]

May be ask her??

Edited September 22, 2015 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[1935Packard]

LincolnMatthews, your mileage may vary, but I wouldn't worry so much about the economy. The U.S. economy is actually pretty stable right now, and the deficit as a percentage of GDP is pretty much where it has been for the last 40 years.  And whatever you do, don't invest in anything that is heavily advertised on TV.  If someone has to sell a financial product to an unsophisticated audience like people who are watching TV, you should cross that product off your list.  You can't beat the market, and you can't know anything that the sophisticated investors don't know.  If you don't have money to burn, don't spend it on a car.  But if you do have money to burn, a 1930s Packard is an excellent choice.  

[John_S_in_Penna]

... I don't know anything really about the de-valueing of our dollar, but I assume that if I took 45k & bought a car & the dollar goes south, my Packard would also be value-less to??, gold may of course drop in value but one would be better off with gold (to barter with) than an old car?? Just throwing all this out there! certainly don't want to turn this into some political debate, thank you again for your thoughts

 

Mr. Matthews, the U. S. dollar has never been devalued.

Devaluation is a sign of instability in a country, and it

typically only happens in underdeveloped nations such as

those in South America (and recently China).  Otherwise,

currencies move up and down daily with respect to each

other as they are traded back and forth, just as do

other commodities such as orange juice, wheat, soybeans,

copper, cattle, and hogs.  The price is based partly on an

item's intrinsic value, but also on people's collective

expectations, be they exuberance or fears.

 

A former co-worker, originally from Turkey, said that

inflation there was then 75% a year.  Those people held

small gold items, such as coins or jewelry which could 

easily be bartered, as a store of value.  They were easily

redeemable.  Cars may be a store of value--not an investment--

but they are not easily redeemable.

 

A few Americans and Europeans may put 10% of their

savings in gold, but over the years they may find it goes nowhere.

People living in stable, civilized Western countries should be

watchful, but they should not have to live in fear.

Enjoy your car hobby, invest wisely, but don't live in constant worry!

Edited September 22, 2015 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[John348]

There is no real structured market with classic cars,  like gold or any other "true" market investments. Gold is an international currency, has similar value almost everywhere in the world. Gold like stocks can be sold at or close to market value in a matter of minutes, vehicles are not so easy or even fast, unless they are way below the estimated value. I think Classic Cars are a good way to "hide" money, but not as an investment, I rather buy shares of GE.

Cars are a lot more fun to play with

Edited September 22, 2015 by John348 (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

(middle class) we don't want to loose our hard earned cash

 

That's it! I can't recall ever really "working hard" for money. If I had I would probably treat it with more respect instead of just figuring it was time to go get some more. I guess that is a tribute to the American life style of the '50's and '60's, the quality of public schools, and stay at home Moms. I tell my wife if I ever drop dead taking a walk on a wilderness path someone will find me and look at my hands and say "Gee, I think he's a priest."

 

I hear the national debt is going to get cleared up. There will be a $60,000 surcharge on each newborn child. A few years and it will be all fixed. Governments only steal for the indigenous; we are the new indigenous.

Bernie

[padgett]

Hoo boy, I remember C&D naming the BMW the World's Best Sports Sedan under $2000. Was that the 2002. Wife had a 2000A with an underslung AC compressor. Every time she hit a curb I'd have to pull the pulley, pound it out, then smooth on a lathe. Also think of Mercs as the world's best taxicabs.

190SL and the big Healeys I always thought of as ladies cars (of course I was infested by Jags at the time. Favorite was a white/red (that came off on your shirt if you perspired) triple carb, gold head XK-150s that always seemed to have too small tires - 6.00x16 RS5s. Overdrive on all four was just one wire away & a straightened gearshift made speed shifts possible.

MADD would have loved it, a drunk could never get it started (key on, open door, take 3/4" wrench (whitworth) and rap on the SU fuel pumps cunningly placed right under the driver's seat til start ticking, push button. Repeat as needed.

50 years later my Crossfire has almost as many gears and an OHC-6 just 200 cc less. Also has 4 wheel disk brakes and I finally have overcome my obsession: it has no oil pressure display (all my other cars including the Jeep do).

Also can tell you the difference between someone who enjoys driving and someone who just collects. A driver can select any car, open a garage door, and just drive off without having to move anything.