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New Ebay/paypal rant


auburnseeker
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I figured I would bring this up so users are aware of policy changes on ebay and it's now divorced paypal company.

Pay pal now charges a .30 fee on every transaction.  This is in addition to the percentage that they charge on all transactions.  The difference with this fee is they do not refund it,  even when you refund the buyer's entire payment.  It doesn't sound like much but in my case I sell around 4000 items a year and that equals a fee of $1200.00.  Now I get to pay an extra 100.00 a month for nothing.  I could think of better things to do with 100.00.

I only noticed this after a "Challenged" buyer wanted to buy an item that totaled 15.50 with shipping. I sent him an invoice which he didn't pay.  He kept bugging me for the item so I said just send me a payment for the 15.50.  Somehow he ended up sending me one for .50  another for 15.00 and then a third for 15.50.  (somedays you just want to bang your head on the desk)

  So I went in and refunded the .50 and the 15.00.  That's when I noticed they charged me .60 for the 2 transactions that they didn't refund.  So it cost me .60 to give the guy his money back.  (strange I don't remember any fees in the old days when you gave someone back cash)

  

  The next is ebay now lets the buyer print a label to return an item if they choose to return it for any reason including they bought it by mistake or were hoping it would fit and you pretty much have to pay for that label.  "the cost will be applied to your next monthly bill" 

   So now you pay for the shipping to and from the customer.  You have to love new changes.  Yeah about as much as a case of the shingles.

  We won't even go into the fact that they get about 15 percent of your Shipping charges paid even if you ship for cost,  you actually lose money.  Most items will cost you .75 to 1.50 in fees to ship as most shipping falls between 5 and 10.00.   Worst of all if you refund as I do 5-10.00 worth of shipping fees by people that don't understand how to check out they do not refund the fees.  (I'm waiting for a class action law suit to come up on this one)

  It would be really nice to see some competition in the Old car parts auction world. 

  I've got other stories and gripes but we'll leave those lie for now. 

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I got sick enough of up-charging for shipping so now make all my listings FREE SHIPPING and set the minimum opening bid......not reserve.......just the minimum so I don't get raped for that too.

Recently an item I shipped never showed up and even after 2 months the tracking info hasn't changed from day one and I'm waiting on an insurance claim.

Having spoken with paypal twice and ebay three times I learned that SELLERS have absolutely no recourse........NONE.

I DID learn that paypal does not set ebay policy.......paypal operates strictly as a money changer.

All disputes are controlled 100% by ebay.

EBAY refunded the buyer of my item and gave me 3 days to reimburse ebay which I did.

I wouldn't have been quite so peed off with ebay but they sent me an email which detailed their findings and said I would receive a final decision with 24 hours.

SEVENTEEN MINUTES LATER I got a second email telling me they had refunded the buyer and asked to be reimbursed........  :o

Edited by cahartley (see edit history)
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What I have noticed. A lot of old car guys are cheep as all H@&L on getting parts for their Million dollar Baby on e-Bay. Yup, Their gem is worth at least that if you ask them, but when it comes time to buy a part they won't spend a nickel. Their car is worth a mint but your part they need is not. Cheep S.O.B's. I must be a rare individual as I'm always willing to pay for what I need or want without a problem. And I'm Still at 100%. I've bought more than I sold. I guess I should re-think this as I have a friend that wants me to sell his stuff. And I have sold some of his. I try to be as honest as I can on condition, but that makes him upset. So what to do without loosing my Butt??? It is my account. I have no negatives in over 10 years of business. He wants to write up the descriptions and sugar coat the problems that these Items have. Not for me. Think I'll let him sell his own stuff as the little I make is not worth jeopardizing my account for. Dandy Dave!   

Edited by Dandy Dave (see edit history)
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The only problem is if someone is only willing to pay 10.00 for an item. They won't pay 10.30 or any amount higher.  They figure their bid (usually) based on the total cost.  Whether it's a .99 part with 9.01 shipping or a 10.00 part with free shipping,  it's still a 10.00 part at their door.

 It's getting to the point that if you are selling it on ebay for less than 10.00 you better be getting it for free and if you sell several an hour you might make minimum wage when the dust and smoke settles and everyone has finally taken their hands out of your pocket.

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\

 

  It would be really nice to see some competition in the Old car parts auction world. 

 

 

We do. It's right in this site in the buy/sell sections. All you have to do is set your price and it costs nothing to list. I've bought more items from sellers here this year than from fleecebay.

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What I have noticed. A lot of old car guys are cheep as all H@&L on getting parts for their Million dollar Baby on e-Bay. Yup, Their gem is worth at least that if you ask them, but when it comes time to buy a part they won't spend a nickel. Their car is worth a mint but your part they need is not. Cheep S.O.B's. I must be a rare individual as I'm always willing to pay for what I need or want without a problem. And I'm Still at 100%. I've bought more than I sold. I guess I should re-think this as I have a friend that wants me to sell his stuff. And I have sold some of his. I try to be as honest as I can on condition, but that makes him upset. So what to do without loosing my Butt??? It is my account. I have no negatives in over 10 years of business. He wants to write up the descriptions and sugar coat the problems that these Items have. Not for me. Think I'll let him sell his own stuff as the little I make is not worth jeopardizing my account for. Dandy Dave!   

I only put an odd item on once in a while for a friend.  I used to sell for a commission and it just wasn't worth it.  If all people brought you was the cream of the crop it would be worth it,  but even 50 percent isn't worth it on items that sell for 10.00 or less.  

Remember you have to spend 1/2 hour at the post office unless you set up an online account,  package all the crap you sell so it can't be ruined in shipping.  Answer questions that are already clearly answered in the description if not right in the title.  Keep track of what has and hasn't been paid for.  Deal with people who bought stuff by mistake because they didn't read the description.  Settle disputes and be willing to suck it up even when you are right and admit that the customer who has no clue about what they are talking about is correct.  Be willing to get negative feedback with no repercussion whatsoever or way to dispute it because the guy who bought your item is an idiot and didn't read the description,  never contacted you to resolve the problem and wasn't happy with his 10.00 purchase.  (the few negative feedbacks I have received were all over items that sold for less than 20.00 with shipping.   

When I do sell for my Friend(usually a couple items a year) He prefers the way I write the listings up and how I present his stuff so it's not hard to do.  I usually do it for free and just have him cover the listing fee.  He is a good friend and we swap back and forth that way. 

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The biggest complaint is the rules get tougher and the fees get bigger,  I think that's why once a year one of these threads pops up.  One of my pet peeves is of all the changes ebay has gone through and "improvements" they have made I have never once been contacted for my opinion on any changes I thought might help their business, my experience as a buyer (I buy over 20G in stuff off their a year.  Most to resell) or  from a seller standpoint of course as I sell around 4000 items a year.  Even a multiple choice of what I thought could improve it would be a good start.

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I still do Ebay, but you have to be really careful how you sell everything.

I don't rely on it for my living, so we hold back the nice things each year and get them prepared for HERSHEY.

27 days.

 

 

I used to think the same way, but Hershey now has become a low baller's paradise. I understand the whole concept of searching for a good deal. I find now that I sell the "good stuff" on Ebay for more money then at Hershey and there are no insulting offers on Ebay. A rough estimate on my end is that only about 15% of the people attending Hershey are looking to buy something they need, the other 85% are looking to load up their inventory for Ebay. 

 

Don't get me wrong I don't love Ebay, but they know they are the only show in town for now........ remember when HMN was? And all transactions was an SASE with a money order? So if anything is constant it is change and until Ebay and Paypal have any competition they will stuck their hands in the sellers pockets as deep as they can,,,,, for now until the next guy does 

 

I don't sell for a living either, I do it to recycle the stuff I am not going to use but... it is easier to toss stuff the to take pennies on the dollar. When you put a price of $50 on an item that is selling for $80, and the buyer asks will you take $5, I love the look on their face when I throw it in the garbage bag. I smoke $12 cigars, if I can burn $12 a day  I don't need their $5 that bad

Edited by John348 (see edit history)
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I have a bunch of stuff that could sell on Ebay. I also have a business that gets a little time stolen for car related things (like this 9:40 "break"). After keeping close track of final in-the -pocket money from Ebay, I have decided that for every $1,000 above average income from the S corp, I am going to throw away $200 worth of the Ebay clutter. The numbers work out well, even after taxes.

 

Sorry about the loss of the parts and memorabilia, but Ebay told me it was "for the buyer experience".

Bernie

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I don't do nearly the volume that Auburnseeker does on eBay, and I can certainly understand the problems he's facing. It's frustrating when Ebay/Paypal simply takes the buyer's word for everything and screws the seller 10 times out of 10. Ebay seems to forget what the hand that feeds them looks like. Yes, they need to protect buyers from the unscrupulous but the sellers generate their "content" and fill their "store." That's why people come to eBay and spend money there. I keep hoping for an alternative that will come in and nip at their heels, perhaps the way Facebook absolutely destroyed MySpace. Instead we see a race to the bottom with penny auctions and other crapola. There's an opportunity, but it will require massive capitalization and the ability to wait a few years to capture an audience. I'm not sure there are many investors willing to roll that particular set of dice. It CAN be done, but will it?

 

I do find the buyers on eBay to be tiresome--not quite like Craig's List guys, but picky beyond what is reasonable. They love to point out when I make a mistake (we call it the "Ebay Police" around the shop) and there's always an expert who wants to tell you how much he knows, demand that you correct your description, and then you never hear from him again--he's not a buyer. I actually don't sell many cars on Ebay but you can't beat the number of eyeballs that it generates, so we use it. I wish I didn't have to, because it's really expensive, but it's still the 800 pound gorilla. I'm consistently puzzled by bidder behavior--I have a car with a $60,000 Buy It Now, which kind of suggests that's where the reserve might be, and I still hear from guys asking if I'd take $20,000 for it. Then there are the guys who bid $1600 and vanish, which strongly suggests to me that there are Ebay employees who shill bid on stuff just to get it rolling, but I can't prove it. I guess it's helpful, but it's always puzzling.

 

Ebay is here to stay. An alternative would be warmly embraced by many sellers, but would buyers take a risk? Hard to say...

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Matt,

I occasionally am the guy that will bid the $1600 and disappear.

I once took a sales class and they suggested that a lowballer will get lucky once in awhile.

It doesn't hurt to try and yes it has worked for me when a guys auction gets over and I get an off Ebay offer to buy reasonably.

I know that this will never work with you guys that are trying to make a living at all of this, but the guy that is cleaning up an estate or his garage might be receptive.

What can it hurt?

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It's THEIR playground, so if you wanna play there, it will be by their rules.

Suck it up and deal with it.

Personally, I'm kicking butt on eBay.

No complaints here.

Count your blessings.

 On top one day and selling like a king then the same stuff you were selling last week for hundreds of dollars will run through at 9.99 and not get a bid.  Been going through that lately my self. 

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Count your blessings.

 On top one day and selling like a king then the same stuff you were selling last week for hundreds of dollars will run through at 9.99 and not get a bid.  Been going through that lately my self. 

 

I think that this is not the best time of year to sell on ebay, the weather is still good (warm/hot) vacations and a lot of car guys are not really sitting on the computer but rather enjoying the tail end of any outside activity. I always found the best time of year was late February, tax returns are coming and the weather is still pretty bad for at least 3/4 of the nation. I also look at the extended weather forecast, when there is a huge snowstorm moving across the nation people have nothing better to do

Edited by John348 (see edit history)
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It would be nice to take a few months off but when it's your sole income that's pretty hard to do.  I wish I could have taken the summer off.  Lots I could have done around the new house including work on clearing the land for a new shop but unfortunately still lots of bills to pay.  Hopefully it will pick up soon.  I have some pretty rare stuff to sell but have been holding it back when I saw the number of watchers/ buyers was significantly down.   

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I'm a very small user, but with that said, I have been very happy with buying and selling.

 

Nearly 200 purchases, and NOT a single issue.  I don't buy watches, hehe.

 

There are a ton of good buys, but you have to do your HOMEWORK.

 

Hey, YOU think Ebay is expensive, try taking something to a RESELL STORE, they get 50%. and start out with a $15.00 sign up fee.

 

Ebay is a bargain, plain and simple, IMHO.

 

Where else can you reach millions?

 

 

Dale in Indy

Edited by smithbrother (see edit history)
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The difference with consignment shops and ebay is you do all the work on ebay. Photograph it list it ship it and deal with any repercussions from the sale,  where at the consignment shop, you drop off the item and they call you when it's sold so you can collect the check. 

It is a good place for exposure but it definitely is cyclical and nearly impossible to predict trends even isolating it to just old car parts which is with the exception of an item or 2 a year,  exclusively what I sell.  I couldn't even imagine the headaches involved with selling modern production stuff or technology related items from the problems I see sellers post about on the community forums which is where I try to go for the rare help i may need with a problem,  usually ebay glitch, that comes up. 

I've tried using the buy sell section here and have had little luck even with free Hershey delivery and all prices which seemed quite reasonable to begin with offered so that anyone at all interested could make an offer as I was trying to clean out.  The chance of one of the much smaller community needing something is pretty rare unless what you are selling fits very desirable cars and you are posting the items at a great discount.

Edited by auburnseeker (see edit history)
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Understand Totally. But I do not spend my time selling $10. Dollar stuff. Has to be worth hundred, or thousands,  or list your stuff yourself. No time for Nickel and dime BS here. Dandy Dave!

 

I only put an odd item on once in a while for a friend.  I used to sell for a commission and it just wasn't worth it.  If all people brought you was the cream of the crop it would be worth it,  but even 50 percent isn't worth it on items that sell for 10.00 or less.  

Remember you have to spend 1/2 hour at the post office unless you set up an online account,  package all the crap you sell so it can't be ruined in shipping.  Answer questions that are already clearly answered in the description if not right in the title.  Keep track of what has and hasn't been paid for.  Deal with people who bought stuff by mistake because they didn't read the description.  Settle disputes and be willing to suck it up even when you are right and admit that the customer who has no clue about what they are talking about is correct.  Be willing to get negative feedback with no repercussion whatsoever or way to dispute it because the guy who bought your item is an idiot and didn't read the description,  never contacted you to resolve the problem and wasn't happy with his 10.00 purchase.  (the few negative feedbacks I have received were all over items that sold for less than 20.00 with shipping.   

When I do sell for my Friend(usually a couple items a year) He prefers the way I write the listings up and how I present his stuff so it's not hard to do.  I usually do it for free and just have him cover the listing fee.  He is a good friend and we swap back and forth that way. 

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" I used to think the same way, but Hershey now has become a low baller's paradise."

 

Hershey is what you make it. We sell art-deco Chevy & GMC  truck parts ('41-'46), and we have a steady  base of customers from Canada, Western Europe, and the US. They come to Hershey each year because it's their special trip of the year- and they buy everything they can reasonably afford to ship or carry back home. Yes, you don't get the crazy "sniped up" price that sometimes happens on Epay. But you don't get the bottom feeder sales either. Since we're not living on this stuff, we set out to have an enjoyable week at one of the greatest auto events in the world- and if we make a few bucks- that's a bonus.

 

As for those who complain that swap meets are in decline- ask yourself who is to blame: The guys who used to be vendors but quit to do Epay (and now complain non-stop about it); or the guys who used to attend every swap meet they could and were actually working on a project. The economy has reset the values of most collectible cars, making them more attractive to many enthusiasts of "normal" means. I attend a load of events, and I see signs of improvement. If you want a better swap meet, get you stuff loaded and be there. Got to go, Fall Carlisle is just around the corner....................

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I wish I could sell only valuable stuff but the problem with valuable stuff is you pay alot for it in the first place so you have to make alot on it for it to be profitable and you have alot of money invested in stuff that doesn't sell. (the expectation level is higher when a guy pays 500.00 for a part in general than when he just bought something for 30.00)  For the most part most people are cheap, and nice chrome doesn't sell because guys can get their''s rechromed.  You have to buy and sell it at such a discount that it's much cheaper than recrhoming your original pieces.    

  A perfect example is steering wheels. I've bought and sold a few of these in super nice or NOS condition.  When you buy them they are usually a couple hundred bucks.  I sand and polish them to near perfection then hopefully atleast double my investment.  The problem is,  even with power polishers and sanders it takes 5-6 hours to polish the wheel up.  (they often have alot of deep scratches) In the end I have sold More than one for $100 more than I paid for it before fees.   Now you have higher fees because the sale price is 300 + and the shipping is 20 something bucks at least.  Crazy since recasting the wheel is over 1000 and often that Ivory color just doesn't look right.

  I don't think a seller could buy enough only stellar merchandise to truly make a real living at it.  (what's really stellar anyways on ebay)   I buy a variety of NOS parts and rely on the random good sales on small parts guys need to fuel my business.  The majority of all the good stuff was sold years ago and the reproduction market always expanding drives the price of OE parts down so the small parts that people don't reproduce are often what I sell best.  Probably my biggest problem is I have a concious.   If a guy stops in my shop and needs something I charge him a super fair price.  I can't charge him $50 for a pair of bolts.  With an auction if he's willing to pay that and says that's what it's worth to him then I don't have a problem.  I know there are days I would happily pay $50 for a bolt when the car is torn apart and that's what you need to put it together.

  If anyone has any stellar stuff they want to sell at a big discount I'm all ears.

I think ebay has hurt the swap meets a bit but then again maybe those guys that used to fill the swap meet aren't around any more. I think alot of guys used to have a little stuff and just go to a few swap meets to help clean out the garage and make a couple bucks (atleast the small local meets)  now the stuff is shifting to more serious sellers and the other guys don't want the clutter.  Most of my purchases are from guys that used to sell at swap meets or from their estates. 

Edited by auburnseeker (see edit history)
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... I attend a load of events, and I see signs of improvement. ...

 

Good observation, Greenie.  For a few years during

the Great Recession, Spring Carlisle was slipping.

There were many, many vacancies in the car corral,

for instance.  For 2015, I was surprised that it had improved.

 

For people selling cars--especially dealers--Ebay is a

way to get publicity.  A classic-car dealer friend of mine

told me that often old cars don't sell on Ebay, but they get

noticed and sold afterward, directly to the buyer.

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Auburnseeker,

it is time to do what big business has done for years, maybe try passing the cost down to the consumer in your price and see how that works. The biggest PIA for me is boxing things up, talk about time and extra costs.

 

Hershey is fun for me and I enjoy it despite dealing with the bottom feeders, but I am not the only on who noticed that at the close of the day the majority of people are walking around only carrying their jacket as they exit. I hear more and more from people who I know that attend "I don't need anything I am just going to look around"

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I'll be at Hershey, but for the most part just bottom feeding.  Bring that old NOS random stuff you have no idea what it fits as well as radio deletes Horn buttons gas and radiator caps (the plain kind) and that's where I will be. I try to spend all the money I bring and I come pretty prepared.  I'll be the guy with the cord wanted parts sign on my cart with hopefully a cart that's ready to collapse from being overloaded each day.   Of course I'll be on the look out for stuff for the Cord  (not much bargain hunting for parts for that) and a few other projects.  I'm their to buy and get frustrated by the close up time which seems to start at 4:00 now and by 5:00 whole rows are empty.

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I have a buddy who always throws in extremely low bids like you're describing, he's a legitimate buyer and he actually wins a small percentage of auctions that go overlooked and have no reserve, you would not believe some of the deals he's gotten. Time consuming for sure, but if he likes something he tosses in a low bid and leave it be, if he wins great, if not, he goes on to the next 20-listings. I truly don't think eBay shills, too much liability if it ever came to light. Of course, we learn all the time anything is possible.

 

Then there are the guys who bid $1600 and vanish, which strongly suggests to me that there are Ebay employees who shill bid on stuff just to get it rolling, but I can't prove it. I guess it's helpful, but it's always puzzling.
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this topic has been discussed to death, but this is a great forum to go over all of your options.

 

Auburn, I feel your pain and gave up selling 2 years ago on the bay. I still buy there and get some great deals, but with the economy the way it is, I had noticed shysters beginning to come out of the woodwork, stating they didnt get their item. Of course, the buyer is always right on paypal and ebay, and so I had a few try to beat me out of $. I just closed down.

I also agree it isnt worth the time to list items that are 10. and under, because of all the ridiculous fees. So in turn, you must decide what your time is worth. Personally I would start at 25. or even 50. and if an item isnt worth that, put together a box lot to get it to those price points. Your time is certainly of value.

 

I would dare say that the ebay sellers have most likely dropped by 20% over the last few years, as I am one. I would also venture that car sales are around 50% or less, as many ads are repeated over and over.

When uncle Sam forces taxes on all of the little mom and pop shops on the bay, you will see another 30% close up shop. It is coming.......................

 

while CL is free, it also brings out the worst of bottom feeders......................................!

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Although I've bought a handful of things through the years, I've never liked Ebay to sell at.  I know a lot of you all like it and some feel that they have no choice, but I decided it was not for me a long time ago.  Since then I've noticed a lot of changes to boot.  It seems like they like to get away with whatever they can.  I don't even have Paypal, lol. 

 

Also won't go near Craigslist and do not like Facebook either, lol.

Edited by 62BillT (see edit history)
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I recently saw an item on EBay that I can use. but there was a fixed charge for shipping. The actual shipping would have been around ten dollars with the item in a small bubble envelope. But the shipping was quoted much higher because ,it appears to me, sellers send their stuff to a central shipping and packing centre, sort of contracted out, to whom I do not know .  

   I enquired from the seller why is this. His answer was he will have to line up at the USPS center for an hour to fill out the foreign  declaration and that could cost me an hour of his time  He is right. The cost of a ten dollars item does worth it.

    What I do not understand is the Import Duty as stated in the list of charges.

    In Canada we do not pay charges whether import or duty charges for collectors items related to cars and other old items

The vendor never replied.

I used to buy from EBay before and send US money order. It cost me and the vendor less.  EBay has put out the carrot about this "instant payment through PayPal and the vendors jumped on the wagon whether willingly or unwillingly The vendor and I are both losers. It cost me money to buy the money order and a stamp but I prefer the vendor make his money.

   Last week I bought 2 items from different vendors. Although it stated the vendor accepts the different credit cards I could not exercise my choice of Visa. I do not have a PayPal account  I tried twice and then the PayPal app appeared which I was forced to fill out. Now PayPal is going to credit my Visa. Not for nothing. Why was the vendors not allowed to debit my Visa directly?

   I think there should be a forum on this site for vendors to sell most items including  automotive related.

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I recently saw an item on EBay that I can use. but there was a fixed charge for shipping. The actual shipping would have been around ten dollars with the item in a small bubble envelope. But the shipping was quoted much higher because ,it appears to me, sellers send their stuff to a central shipping and packing centre, sort of contracted out, to whom I do not know .  

   I enquired from the seller why is this. His answer was he will have to line up at the USPS center for an hour to fill out the foreign  declaration and that could cost me an hour of his time  He is right. The cost of a ten dollars item does worth it.

    What I do not understand is the Import Duty as stated in the list of charges.

    In Canada we do not pay charges whether import or duty charges for collectors items related to cars and other old items

The vendor never replied.

I used to buy from EBay before and send US money order. It cost me and the vendor less.  EBay has put out the carrot about this "instant payment through PayPal and the vendors jumped on the wagon whether willingly or unwillingly The vendor and I are both losers. It cost me money to buy the money order and a stamp but I prefer the vendor make his money.

   Last week I bought 2 items from different vendors. Although it stated the vendor accepts the different credit cards I could not exercise my choice of Visa. I do not have a PayPal account  I tried twice and then the PayPal app appeared which I was forced to fill out. Now PayPal is going to credit my Visa. Not for nothing. Why was the vendors not allowed to debit my Visa directly?

   I think there should be a forum on this site for vendors to sell most items including  automotive related.

There is already a Buy/Sell forum on this site. Unfortunately, it does not get the same amount of traffic that Ebay does.

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Hemmings, both print and online, is still one of the very best places to list a car for sale. We get a lot of traffic and I routinely place a few print ads for individual cars in their sections in the print book. There are still plenty of guys who leaf through the magazine page by page and don't use the Internet. I don't know if it would be the same for parts, and I bet listing each part individually in an ad would get expensive and I'd also think that nobody's going to read through line after line of tiny text to see if you maybe have the part they need if you simply list them all in one big ad.

 

Hemmings is good to buy and sell cars. Buying and selling parts? Maybe not so much.

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