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AVS619

Cone Clutch Help-Rather Urgent

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I now have the 1910 IHC J-30 running, although the Schebler Model L carburetor is giving me grief as I can not seem to get it adjusted correctly, but sadly the car does not seem to have power and the clutch seems to be weak. I had the cone relined in leather but what I appear to need is a crash course in adjusting a cone clutch. I know there are little adjustments around the cone to adjust the leather but also three large springs that hold the cone in place. How can I adjust the clutch? Right now the car would not climb a little hill and the tour coming up (and I am the host) has great big hills. Please, a quick run through on cone clutches and if you know anything about Schebler carburetors, or what a good modern replacement would be, please let me know. You can also reach me at brasscars@charter.net. Help me get this car to get through a three day tour. Thanks.

 

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Have you checked the thickness of the leather?  If it was relined with too thin of material it certainly wouldn't grab very well.  I do know if too thick material will make the clutch not work.  A fellow used 1/4" where it was designed for 3/16"and it did not work    You don't mention if the clutch was operating before you relined it.  Is it possible tha the three springs are very weak? Sometimes people will shim them a little to increase the pressure.

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I've been driving my 1911 Cadillac for almost 5000 miles over 12 years with both a cone clutch and a Schebler model L carb.  I find them both pretty trouble free.

 

I relined the clutch with leather 10 years ago.  There is nothing to adjust except the pedal linkage and the spring tension.  Make sure your pedal has some free play so that you know the clutch is engaging fully,  My clutch has 5 springs.  If your leather is good and the cone appears to fit properly, I'd try stiffer springs.  (I'm assuming it slides forward and back nicely and is not real sloppy)  I've never felt mine slip - even climbing 16% grades on a recent day tour.

 

On your Schebler carb, make sure the leather air flapper valve valve seats fully.  Sometimes they get dry and warp.   I eventually made a new one out of teflon.  The flapper should make a good seal around the air intake, but pull free with moderate vacuum. 

 

Also make sure it's not too sloppy around the shaft the butterfly mounts on.  If it's sucking air through a worn shaft it's not going to adjust well.  For adjustment I refer to my Dykes Automobile Encyclopedia (1917).  It has a page on the Model L carb, which I could scan and send you if you like. I think the tendency is to run too rich, so lean it out a little.

 

Just so you know, I've not been able to keep mine from dripping, especially just after I shut the engine off and there's a shot of fuel that falls back down the manifold and into the carb.

 

Also, make sure it's the right carb for the car.  I've seen them with different throat sizes.

 

Also also, Schebler Model L carbs come in short and tall models.  The tall model drops the carb body down lower.  My car has a short carb and I had to make a 3 inch extension on the manifold to drop the carb down low enough to get good fuel flow, especially with less than half a tank of fuel.  If you're having trouble on hills, make sure you're getting enough fuel.    (Note:  an inline fuel filter could also impede your fuel flow - I discarded the one that had been installed.)

 

Good luck with the IHC.  I hope you get it on the tour.

 

Peter

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Thank you both for your replies. I have been at a thresheree but was able to get a 1915 Dykes and adjusted the carburetor as indicated. It seems to run fine at idle and will speed up without backfires or the like when using the hand throttle but, when I get in the seat, put it in first gear and use either the foot or hand throttle it looses power when the clutch engages. It will not proceed. Once it did backfire and for a brief moment there was some power after but as I tried to shift into second it again lost power as the clutch engaged. Am I looking at something more serious than just a carburetor not adjusted correctly? I must solve this as in two weeks we will be hosting the tour and I hate to be the host and then have to use a modern car.

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Where are you located and who relined the clutch?  You can call me if you want me to talk you through what I did.

 

That said, here is a write up of what I did for my truck to get the clutch working correctly.

 

 

 

I just had the same problem with my truck.
 
The three things that I did was to grease the sleve that the cone travels on very liberally.
 
Next on the recommendation of Mark Shaw I took a hack saw blade and covered it with the hem from a cotton t shirt over the hack saw blade, dipped it in neatsfoot oil and wiped/ cleaned the total surface of the leather clutch.  I got a lot of black crud off the face by wiping the surface.  Used a hack saw blade because it is thin and strong and does not bend.
 
Next I squirted more neatsfoot oil on the leather clutch with the clutch depressed/  disengaged. I then put the clutch in once to uniformly spread the oil over the face of the clutch.
 
I finally put a stick on the clutch to keep it disengaged for a couple of days so the oil would soak in.
 
I also needed to adjust the three buttons that push out the leather for the starting engagement of the clutch.
 
This improved the performance of the clutch on my truck about 95%+.  Probably need to re-oil it again.

 

Edited by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

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 when I get in the seat, put it in first gear and use either the foot or hand throttle it looses power when the clutch engages. It will not proceed.

 

What is the engine doing when you have engaged the clutch?  If it is revving up but the car is not going as it should, then you have a slipping clutch and need to find a way to get it to grab a little more.

 

But it sounds like you are saying that the engine nearly dies when you engage the clutch.  This wouldn't be a clutch problem.  Can you stall the engine by letting the clutch out with the brakes on?  That would be a good sign as far as the clutch is concerned.

 

If you put the car on jack stands so that the rear wheels are in the air, does everything seem better? That is, when there is no load does it run well as you engage the clutch and give it some throttle?

 

The backfiring could be a sign of not enough fuel.  Perhaps your carb should be adjusted a little richer, or maybe the float level is too low?  But it could also be an ignition problem.  Are you running a mag or a battery/coil system?  I think I'd start checking plugs, plug wires, points, condenser, etc.

 

Peter

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Hello Again. Once more, thank you for the information. I am up here in Wisconsin and Bob Knaack (did I spell that right?) put the new leather on. The car is running on the mag and from all I can tell there is good spark. I think it boils sown to a carburetor issue. It has a Schebler Model L. The car runs good at idle and runs well when adjusting as per the instructions. As I put it in gear an engage the clutch, it looses power and does not want to proceed. twice I have had it backfire in first which tends to give it a moment of power and then back to loss of power. I do have more to test over the weekend. Please see my new post regarding a possible replacement carburetor. Thank you all again for your help. 

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