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Roger Walling

1924 Isotta Fraschini Tipo 8A Wins 2015 Pebble Beach Concours Best of Show Honors

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Guest BillP

PB is a beauty show, and the cars are super models. If done well, facelifts and silicone are allowed.

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It is acceptable because it was done by a recognized coach builder during the car's active, useful life. That is a whole lot different than a back yard attempt to create something obviously archaic and "cool". Many high end cars were re-bodied during their active lives. A large percentage of the Springfield RRs, traded in on newer models, were re-bodied by RR of America in order to sell them.

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The car was rebodied in period with lots of pictures of it at the time.  I'm not sure what the problem would be?   If it was rebodied in 1984 I would agree that was be an issue.

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Why a double standard?   The CCCA recognizes any car rebodied by a known reputable builder in period and Pebble is doing the same thing.

 

That 7 year old Tipo-8 chassis that was used in 1931 was practically identical to the new chassis you could buy from Issota at the time.

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Guest BillP

My initial response was flip, but of course, Alsancle is correct.

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I have crawled around in the nooks and crannies of those period built, recognized coach builder's work. :rolleyes: Like Robin said "Holy lead, wood, and nails, Batman!"

 

I just got back from lunch at the China Buffet where I left my "coachbulit" Park Ave parked with the top down, a jug of orange hand cleaner, some disc brake lube, and some change on the hump.It was not a frumpy seven year old closed car when it was built. It was new, about $20,000 for the base coupe and $12,000 for the building in 1986 money. I get a 50 point deduction and pointed to the hearse row. And it was built in the Hess & Eisenhardt shops by the successive owner who made improvements over H&E fit and finish. I owned an H&E Caddy.

 

They are all nice cars and any one is great to own. But it must be remembered- to be exclusive, one must exclude.

Bernie

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Hearses are recognized and judged by AACA just like any other custom built vehicle, if done in period and by a recognized body builder which H&E definitely is. 50 point deduction? Where did you came up with that?

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Hearses, yes, my 1986 Park Ave convertible, was built by Car Craft who took over H&E non-armor operations.

car22.bmp

 

Seems like that should carry equal weight to a blacksmith shop in Europe.  I'm following the thoughts of the first post.

 

I have put 1,000 miles on it this year and always wear my Navy ships ball cap when I drive with the top down. That is a courtesy to the drivers behind me. I can understand THAT being a deduction.

Bernie

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You should post a picture of your car.  I assume it was a convertible conversion by Car Craft?  Is the AACA not recognizing that?

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It is acceptable because it was done by a recognized coach builder during the car's active, useful life. That is a whole lot different than a back yard attempt to create something obviously archaic and "cool". Many high end cars were re-bodied during their active lives. A large percentage of the Springfield RRs, traded in on newer models, were re-bodied by RR of America in order to sell them.

Many of the "Great Eight " and "Riddler Award " winners were created by "recognized coach builders", in state of the art shops. As for as being "re-bodied", I've heard that many Omni's and Horizon's essentially got the same treatment, in order to sell them in Eastern block countries when the Iron Curtain fell. Ah-o-no, I'm just sayin'.

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Many of the "Great Eight " and "Riddler Award " winners were created by "recognized coach builders", in state of the art shops. As for as being "re-bodied", I've heard that many Omni's and Horizon's essentially got the same treatment, in order to sell them in Eastern block countries when the Iron Curtain fell. Ah-o-no, I'm just sayin'.

 

Are you comparing the "Riddler Award" to PB best of show?  

 

Here is a picture of the car in 1931.  I have no trouble understanding how this would be a best of show contender.

post-76712-0-09851200-1441152273_thumb.j

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WalMart cars and owners aside, was this years Pebble Beach BEST IN SHOW a rebodied car or a seven year old never bodied chassis? Pebble Beach is still in my top three Bucket List events to hit before its all over. Bob 

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Bob,  it originally had a torpedo body and was rebodied in 31 and shown at the Geneva motor show.

 

The exceptional Isotta-Fraschini Tipo 8A on offer is known as "l'Isotta du marquis", a name given to it during the period it belonged to the late Yves Dalmier. In his celebrated book "Les roues de fortune", there are several hilarious pages on driving this car, or rather the adventures surrounding it. Dalmier tells us that the car, which was built in 1924, was initially given a " boule " torpedo body, original Isotta model. Some years later this was completely dismantled in the workshop of the Swiss coachbuilder Ramseier, in Worblaufen. According to Dalmier, " the only part of the first body to survive is a hint of the old bonnet, in the form of a Dural part, now useless, attached under the current bonnet." Ramseier created a new cabriolet body and exhibited the car at the Geneva Motor Show in 1932. Totally beautiful, the cabriolet body with steeply sloping running board gave this imposing automobile a lighter feel. - See more at: https://artcurial.com/en/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=2400+++++354+&refno=10471007#sthash.tpJDMV3w.dpuf
French title
Chassis n° N605
Engine n° 604

- From the Albert Prost collection
- Absolutely exceptional
- Just three family owners
- Continuous, remarkable history
- Original engine and second body

At the start of the 1920s, no extravagance was too much and the prestige car manufacturers competed to offer the highest level of luxury and indulgence. At Isotta-Fraschini, the Tipo 8A, presented in 1924, followed the first series produced car, the Tipo 8, that had an inline 8-cylinder engine designed by Giustino Cattaneo. Weighing more than 2 tonnes, the Tipo 8A was given a 7.3-litre engine that while not overly powerful (approximately 110 bhp at 2,800 rpm), had an enormous amount of torque, so that it barely needed all three gears. Most of the cars built went to the US where people were crazy about this type of model, and an Isotta was more expensive than a Duesenberg. One of the most famous fans of the Isotta- Fraschini during his Hollywood years was Rudolph Valentino - he shared his nationality with this impressive automobile. A real show-stopper, the Isotta was perfect for cruising down the wide boulevards, or for a long journey on the open roads, lulled by the gentle roar of its special engine. Testimony to a carefree time, cars like the Tipo 8A were condemned to a short production run by the 1929 Crash. Nothing like these cars was seen again.

The exceptional Isotta-Fraschini Tipo 8A on offer is known as "l'Isotta du marquis", a name given to it during the period it belonged to the late Yves Dalmier. In his celebrated book "Les roues de fortune", there are several hilarious pages on driving this car, or rather the adventures surrounding it. Dalmier tells us that the car, which was built in 1924, was initially given a " boule " torpedo body, original Isotta model. Some years later this was completely dismantled in the workshop of the Swiss coachbuilder Ramseier, in Worblaufen. According to Dalmier, " the only part of the first body to survive is a hint of the old bonnet, in the form of a Dural part, now useless, attached under the current bonnet." Ramseier created a new cabriolet body and exhibited the car at the Geneva Motor Show in 1932. Totally beautiful, the cabriolet body with steeply sloping running board gave this imposing automobile a lighter feel.
Yves Dalmier bought the car in 1960, in rather extraordinary circumstances, even for the period, having placed a small ad asking for " any nice old cars ", or something similar. He was sent a letter, offering him this wonderful Isotta. After various twists and turns in the story, Dalmier finally took possession of the car in exchange for a Salmson S4 that he had bought to attract buyers...According to " Les roues de Fortune ", which has a reproduction of the seller's letter dating from June 1960, the Ramseier coachwork was commissioned by the seller's father-in-law who at that time was responsible for Omega watches in Geneva (the reason why the body had been built in a Swiss workshop, in Worblaufen). The letter addressed to Yves Dalmier noted that " this car is in a perfectly maintained condition ". Dalmier kept this formidable cruise ship for six years, covering some 12,000 km and carrying out work, including an engine re-build, to allow the car to continue providing good service. In 1966, following a reversal in fortunes (recounted in the second volume of his book "Les roues de misère"), Dalmier was forced to part with his substantial Isotta-Fraschini, and it was Albert Prost who bought it. And so, this car that was born in the 1920s, has known just three families with its definitive coachwork. A very rare occurrence.
During the 1980s, Albert Prost had the car restored by the Ateliers de Restauration de Touraine, in Sorigny. It emerged with refurbished mechanical components and the magnificent coachwork repainted in cream, after a slight hesitation about the colour of the bonnet. There is an amusing anecdote about this : on display at Retromobile, a visitor passed by the car and exclaimed : " This is the car that my Grandfather built. " . Documents from the coachbuilder confirmed that it had indeed been the right choice of colours.
Rarely driven and regularly maintained, this extraordinary car remains in superb condition today. It is a rare testimony to the excesses of the Roaring Twenties, before the Crash of 1929 put a halt to the extravagance. Everything about this Isotta is extravagant, although the perfectly balanced styling of the body makes it appear 'less' than it is.

There is no other known example of this legendary model in France. With its continuous history, small number of owners, original engine and second body, this Isotta-Fraschini presents an opportunity that will not come again for a long time. It is for you to seize the exceptional opportunity that has arisen, for this Isotta is undoubtedly the most beautiful Isotta grand tourer, with the charismatic styling and undeniable beauty of an automotive masterpiece.


"An insane bonnet, fantastic..."
The book by Yves Dalmier, "Les roues de fortune", is full of anecdotes about the Isotta that he had between 1960 and 1966. Following the letter from the owner, the first contact he had with the car was a photo. His initial reactions are worth transcribing : " I took the photo in my hands, like a glass of water in the face. Surely, it was a dream ! In fact what I was looking at was a gigantic black and white cabriolet, appearing to fill every inch of the road it had stopped on. With extraordinary bicycle wings, enormous, connected to a curved running board sloping up to the front, an RR radiator grille and at the back, two huge spare wheels that stood higher than the trunk. Between the front and the back, a bonnet, just a bonnet, but an insane, fantastic bonnet.
Squashed behind this was a " compartment " with half a steering wheel showing. And in the middle of this monster, right on the top, a tiny windscreen, like a fingernail stuck on the deck of a ship.
These are the inadequate words that, after several years, describe the memories of this first contact. "
(Extract from "Les roues de fortune, les roues de misère", by Yves Dalmier, illustrations by Jacques Liscourt, Éditions Automobilia, Monaco, 1991)

Archives pictures : Prost Family collection

Please note that this car will be sold without technical inspection.
The engine of the car was probably upgraded at the end of the 1920s by Isotta Fraschini and corresponds to the specifications of the 8A Super Sport engine producing 160bhp. - See more at: https://artcurial.com/en/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=2400+++++354+&refno=10471007#sthash.tpJDMV3w.dpuf
French title
Chassis n° N605
Engine n° 604

- From the Albert Prost collection
- Absolutely exceptional
- Just three family owners
- Continuous, remarkable history
- Original engine and second body

At the start of the 1920s, no extravagance was too much and the prestige car manufacturers competed to offer the highest level of luxury and indulgence. At Isotta-Fraschini, the Tipo 8A, presented in 1924, followed the first series produced car, the Tipo 8, that had an inline 8-cylinder engine designed by Giustino Cattaneo. Weighing more than 2 tonnes, the Tipo 8A was given a 7.3-litre engine that while not overly powerful (approximately 110 bhp at 2,800 rpm), had an enormous amount of torque, so that it barely needed all three gears. Most of the cars built went to the US where people were crazy about this type of model, and an Isotta was more expensive than a Duesenberg. One of the most famous fans of the Isotta- Fraschini during his Hollywood years was Rudolph Valentino - he shared his nationality with this impressive automobile. A real show-stopper, the Isotta was perfect for cruising down the wide boulevards, or for a long journey on the open roads, lulled by the gentle roar of its special engine. Testimony to a carefree time, cars like the Tipo 8A were condemned to a short production run by the 1929 Crash. Nothing like these cars was seen again.

The exceptional Isotta-Fraschini Tipo 8A on offer is known as "l'Isotta du marquis", a name given to it during the period it belonged to the late Yves Dalmier. In his celebrated book "Les roues de fortune", there are several hilarious pages on driving this car, or rather the adventures surrounding it. Dalmier tells us that the car, which was built in 1924, was initially given a " boule " torpedo body, original Isotta model. Some years later this was completely dismantled in the workshop of the Swiss coachbuilder Ramseier, in Worblaufen. According to Dalmier, " the only part of the first body to survive is a hint of the old bonnet, in the form of a Dural part, now useless, attached under the current bonnet." Ramseier created a new cabriolet body and exhibited the car at the Geneva Motor Show in 1932. Totally beautiful, the cabriolet body with steeply sloping running board gave this imposing automobile a lighter feel.
Yves Dalmier bought the car in 1960, in rather extraordinary circumstances, even for the period, having placed a small ad asking for " any nice old cars ", or something similar. He was sent a letter, offering him this wonderful Isotta. After various twists and turns in the story, Dalmier finally took possession of the car in exchange for a Salmson S4 that he had bought to attract buyers...According to " Les roues de Fortune ", which has a reproduction of the seller's letter dating from June 1960, the Ramseier coachwork was commissioned by the seller's father-in-law who at that time was responsible for Omega watches in Geneva (the reason why the body had been built in a Swiss workshop, in Worblaufen). The letter addressed to Yves Dalmier noted that " this car is in a perfectly maintained condition ". Dalmier kept this formidable cruise ship for six years, covering some 12,000 km and carrying out work, including an engine re-build, to allow the car to continue providing good service. In 1966, following a reversal in fortunes (recounted in the second volume of his book "Les roues de misère"), Dalmier was forced to part with his substantial Isotta-Fraschini, and it was Albert Prost who bought it. And so, this car that was born in the 1920s, has known just three families with its definitive coachwork. A very rare occurrence.
During the 1980s, Albert Prost had the car restored by the Ateliers de Restauration de Touraine, in Sorigny. It emerged with refurbished mechanical components and the magnificent coachwork repainted in cream, after a slight hesitation about the colour of the bonnet. There is an amusing anecdote about this : on display at Retromobile, a visitor passed by the car and exclaimed : " This is the car that my Grandfather built. " . Documents from the coachbuilder confirmed that it had indeed been the right choice of colours.
Rarely driven and regularly maintained, this extraordinary car remains in superb condition today. It is a rare testimony to the excesses of the Roaring Twenties, before the Crash of 1929 put a halt to the extravagance. Everything about this Isotta is extravagant, although the perfectly balanced styling of the body makes it appear 'less' than it is.

There is no other known example of this legendary model in France. With its continuous history, small number of owners, original engine and second body, this Isotta-Fraschini presents an opportunity that will not come again for a long time. It is for you to seize the exceptional opportunity that has arisen, for this Isotta is undoubtedly the most beautiful Isotta grand tourer, with the charismatic styling and undeniable beauty of an automotive masterpiece.


"An insane bonnet, fantastic..."
The book by Yves Dalmier, "Les roues de fortune", is full of anecdotes about the Isotta that he had between 1960 and 1966. Following the letter from the owner, the first contact he had with the car was a photo. His initial reactions are worth transcribing : " I took the photo in my hands, like a glass of water in the face. Surely, it was a dream ! In fact what I was looking at was a gigantic black and white cabriolet, appearing to fill every inch of the road it had stopped on. With extraordinary bicycle wings, enormous, connected to a curved running board sloping up to the front, an RR radiator grille and at the back, two huge spare wheels that stood higher than the trunk. Between the front and the back, a bonnet, just a bonnet, but an insane, fantastic bonnet.
Squashed behind this was a " compartment " with half a steering wheel showing. And in the middle of this monster, right on the top, a tiny windscreen, like a fingernail stuck on the deck of a ship.
These are the inadequate words that, after several years, describe the memories of this first contact. "
(Extract from "Les roues de fortune, les roues de misère", by Yves Dalmier, illustrations by Jacques Liscourt, Éditions Automobilia, Monaco, 1991)

Archives pictures : Prost Family collection

Please note that this car will be sold without technical inspection.
The engine of the car was probably upgraded at the end of the 1920s by Isotta Fraschini and corresponds to the specifications of the 8A Super Sport engine producing 160bhp. - See more at: https://artcurial.com/en/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=2400+++++354+&refno=10471007#sthash.tpJDMV3w.dpuf
French title
Chassis n° N605
Engine n° 604

- From the Albert Prost collection
- Absolutely exceptional
- Just three family owners
- Continuous, remarkable history
- Original engine and second body

At the start of the 1920s, no extravagance was too much and the prestige car manufacturers competed to offer the highest level of luxury and indulgence. At Isotta-Fraschini, the Tipo 8A, presented in 1924, followed the first series produced car, the Tipo 8, that had an inline 8-cylinder engine designed by Giustino Cattaneo. Weighing more than 2 tonnes, the Tipo 8A was given a 7.3-litre engine that while not overly powerful (approximately 110 bhp at 2,800 rpm), had an enormous amount of torque, so that it barely needed all three gears. Most of the cars built went to the US where people were crazy about this type of model, and an Isotta was more expensive than a Duesenberg. One of the most famous fans of the Isotta- Fraschini during his Hollywood years was Rudolph Valentino - he shared his nationality with this impressive automobile. A real show-stopper, the Isotta was perfect for cruising down the wide boulevards, or for a long journey on the open roads, lulled by the gentle roar of its special engine. Testimony to a carefree time, cars like the Tipo 8A were condemned to a short production run by the 1929 Crash. Nothing like these cars was seen again.

The exceptional Isotta-Fraschini Tipo 8A on offer is known as "l'Isotta du marquis", a name given to it during the period it belonged to the late Yves Dalmier. In his celebrated book "Les roues de fortune", there are several hilarious pages on driving this car, or rather the adventures surrounding it. Dalmier tells us that the car, which was built in 1924, was initially given a " boule " torpedo body, original Isotta model. Some years later this was completely dismantled in the workshop of the Swiss coachbuilder Ramseier, in Worblaufen. According to Dalmier, " the only part of the first body to survive is a hint of the old bonnet, in the form of a Dural part, now useless, attached under the current bonnet." Ramseier created a new cabriolet body and exhibited the car at the Geneva Motor Show in 1932. Totally beautiful, the cabriolet body with steeply sloping running board gave this imposing automobile a lighter feel.
Yves Dalmier bought the car in 1960, in rather extraordinary circumstances, even for the period, having placed a small ad asking for " any nice old cars ", or something similar. He was sent a letter, offering him this wonderful Isotta. After various twists and turns in the story, Dalmier finally took possession of the car in exchange for a Salmson S4 that he had bought to attract buyers...According to " Les roues de Fortune ", which has a reproduction of the seller's letter dating from June 1960, the Ramseier coachwork was commissioned by the seller's father-in-law who at that time was responsible for Omega watches in Geneva (the reason why the body had been built in a Swiss workshop, in Worblaufen). The letter addressed to Yves Dalmier noted that " this car is in a perfectly maintained condition ". Dalmier kept this formidable cruise ship for six years, covering some 12,000 km and carrying out work, including an engine re-build, to allow the car to continue providing good service. In 1966, following a reversal in fortunes (recounted in the second volume of his book "Les roues de misère"), Dalmier was forced to part with his substantial Isotta-Fraschini, and it was Albert Prost who bought it. And so, this car that was born in the 1920s, has known just three families with its definitive coachwork. A very rare occurrence.
During the 1980s, Albert Prost had the car restored by the Ateliers de Restauration de Touraine, in Sorigny. It emerged with refurbished mechanical components and the magnificent coachwork repainted in cream, after a slight hesitation about the colour of the bonnet. There is an amusing anecdote about this : on display at Retromobile, a visitor passed by the car and exclaimed : " This is the car that my Grandfather built. " . Documents from the coachbuilder confirmed that it had indeed been the right choice of colours.
Rarely driven and regularly maintained, this extraordinary car remains in superb condition today. It is a rare testimony to the excesses of the Roaring Twenties, before the Crash of 1929 put a halt to the extravagance. Everything about this Isotta is extravagant, although the perfectly balanced styling of the body makes it appear 'less' than it is.

There is no other known example of this legendary model in France. With its continuous history, small number of owners, original engine and second body, this Isotta-Fraschini presents an opportunity that will not come again for a long time. It is for you to seize the exceptional opportunity that has arisen, for this Isotta is undoubtedly the most beautiful Isotta grand tourer, with the charismatic styling and undeniable beauty of an automotive masterpiece.


"An insane bonnet, fantastic..."
The book by Yves Dalmier, "Les roues de fortune", is full of anecdotes about the Isotta that he had between 1960 and 1966. Following the letter from the owner, the first contact he had with the car was a photo. His initial reactions are worth transcribing : " I took the photo in my hands, like a glass of water in the face. Surely, it was a dream ! In fact what I was looking at was a gigantic black and white cabriolet, appearing to fill every inch of the road it had stopped on. With extraordinary bicycle wings, enormous, connected to a curved running board sloping up to the front, an RR radiator grille and at the back, two huge spare wheels that stood higher than the trunk. Between the front and the back, a bonnet, just a bonnet, but an insane, fantastic bonnet.
Squashed behind this was a " compartment " with half a steering wheel showing. And in the middle of this monster, right on the top, a tiny windscreen, like a fingernail stuck on the deck of a ship.
These are the inadequate words that, after several years, describe the memories of this first contact. "
(Extract from "Les roues de fortune, les roues de misère", by Yves Dalmier, illustrations by Jacques Liscourt, Éditions Automobilia, Monaco, 1991)

Archives pictures : Prost Family collection

Please note that this car will be sold without technical inspection.
The engine of the car was probably upgraded at the end of the 1920s by Isotta Fraschini and corresponds to the specifications of the 8A Super Sport engine producing 160bhp. - See more at: https://artcurial.com/en/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=2400+++++354+&refno=10471007#sthash.tpJDMV3w.dpuf

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I think the criterion that made this car different than a recent chop & drop job is:

 

1.  World class chassis - Tipo 8 IF - not a 32 Ford V8.

2.  Body built by known builder in period.  1931 on a 7 year old chassis.

3.  Shown at prestigious auto shows in period (Geneva).

4.  Known history with lots of photographic evidence.

 

Here is a thread on the car:  http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=1285&p=3969&hilit=Ramseier#p3969

 

Pre-restoration this car sold for 1.4 million dollars,  mix in another 800k to restore it you are looking at a 2 million dollar plus investment.

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Thank you so much Alsancle for the info on this fine motorcar, may not equal a Camaro build sheet hype at Barrett Jackson but it is impressive to some of us. Bob 

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