cjp69

Triple black 65 riviera on CL for $13,500

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Great find great deal. Congrads. You can buy some r12 cans on ebay sometimes without a license. I have several times. You can usually find some with the filler attachments included. This,way you can fill yourself if you want or a ac service center can use your cans. Jim

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Just so no one has false expectations on this car's condition. It was a northern car and lived in Long Island and NJ all it's life. It was well taken care of and garaged all it's life (I'm told), however it does have rust underneath. Scaling along everything with some rust through on the wheel wells. It's looks like a northern car under there. That being said it is very nice and presentable but not a show winner by any means. I'd say its a mid 3 car in terms of condition. Paint is glossy and shines nice as you can see in the pictures. Interior is very good. I'm happy with it so I guess that's all that matters. I can fix up the rust underneath and make it look nice over time. 

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The gentleman from Md who writes a column in the Riview every month just recently wrote a good article about A/C, Freon, 134a, etc. He knows what he's talking about. It was in an issue a few months ago.

Keep the R-12. It's legal, as long as you find a guy who's certified to handle it. My 67 runs on R-12 and I usually have to turn it down after a half hr or so. 

After the season I have to get someone to flush the system because I have the 2 different oils mixed together/ I'll get a new dryer, have someone flush it, and I might replace the A/C compressor clutch while I'm at it.

I have to admit feeling kind of "smug" when pulling into a cruise nite or show with the windows rolled up tight.

No need to flush the system if your A/C is operating satisfactorily. The only reason to be concerned about too much oil in the system is if the excess oil is interfering with heat exchange. If your system is performing properly that obviously is not happening. Better to have a little too much oil in the system than not enough. By flushing each component you must open the system at each component and will possibly introduce leaks where there presently are none. "If it aint broke, dont fix it" comes to mind....

  Tom Mooney

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The original system uses a Suction Throttle Valve.  The Suction Throttle Valve was used by General Motors in the early 60's as a way to vary the conditioned air's temperature at the evaporator. This method was used instead of cycling the compressor like most modern cars do.  Some of you may remember your car, or other cars from the era having the evaporator "freeze up."  You'd have to turn off the  a/c and let the evaporator thaw out.  The following link is for a kit that converts your OE system to a more modern type system by cycling the compressor to control the temperature.  The guys I know who have done this think it's the best thing since sliced bread - ice cold air and no frozen evaporators.

 

http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalog/valves-ac/50-2500p/stv-update-kit-p-3670.html

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The original system uses a Suction Throttle Valve.  The Suction Throttle Valve was used by General Motors in the early 60's as a way to vary the conditioned air's temperature at the evaporator. This method was used instead of cycling the compressor like most modern cars do.  Some of you may remember your car, or other cars from the era having the evaporator "freeze up."  You'd have to turn off the  a/c and let the evaporator thaw out.  The following link is for a kit that converts your OE system to a more modern type system by cycling the compressor to control the temperature.  The guys I know who have done this think it's the best thing since sliced bread - ice cold air and no frozen evaporators.

 

http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalog/valves-ac/50-2500p/stv-update-kit-p-3670.html

Both the expansion valve and the STV valve are designed to work in unison to maintain constant evap pressure. Constant evap pressure directly equates to constant evap TEMP. This is why the old style systems are cold and stay cold, no varying temp with compressor cycling. If these components are operating properly and the air handling aspect of the system is OK the evaporator should not freeze up. Evap freeze up is an indication that something is wrong and needs attention.

A cycling system works at an acceptable level, especially considering the savings associated with not running the compressor full time as a trade off in modern cars, and is greatly simplified; but I dont like the idea of cycling an A6 compressor, especially at highway speeds. Personally, I think it is too hard on the compressor clutch.

And, in spite of what folks say, physics dictates there is a variance in temp output as the evap pressures vary due to the compressor cycling. As an example, an old system will hold evap pressure at 30 lbs CONSTANTLY and therefore maintain a constant temp output, where as a cycling system will pull evap pressure down to 30 lbs, allow the compressor to cycle off, and allow the evap pressure to rise to 40 lbs or more, with the accompanying rise in output temp, before cycling the compressor back on. There is simply no better automotive A/C system than the `60`s A/C systems in terms of cooling performance. There is, however, a price to pay for this performance as they are more complicated to maintain and troubleshoot than the modern cycling systems.

  Tom

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My understanding is that, due to environmentalists'

concerns, the PRODUCTION of refrigerant R12 was

outlawed. There was, of course, no prohibition against

using stocks of R12 already made.  So R12 became

harder to find and much more expensive.

 

Rivnut Ed or JJ5794 or others, can you tell us 

a bit more about R12 being cheaper these days?

And can you tell more about the substitutes that

evidently don't require converting the system?

 

I have a few cars that take R12, and I simply haven't

been charging or using the A.C. in recent years.

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I'm just aware that the R12 is getting cheaper because of good ol' econ 101 - supply and demand. I think that you'd find out more if you were to search the internet for answers to your questions. I'm repeating what I've learned from others; that information does not cover your questions in depth.

Ed

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I once tried "Freeze 12" on a car I no longer own. The compressor died about 3 months later and I had a new compressor installed and everything else cleaned/replaced. This was on a 1992 Roadmaster.

 I then went to Reattas and now own three, all R-12. Until something "breaks" I will stay with pure R-12 as it is way cheaper to add a can when I need it [Haven't in 2 years]. I no longer want to add anything non original to this system. R-12 even if it were $50.00 a can to top your system off is way cheaper then running the risk of replacing a compressor and other parts plus labor.

 I go to Ebay and look for buy it now/free shipping as to me that is the easiest way to buy [No surprises]. My last order was for 4 cans for $110.00. I now have 8 cans in inventory.

 I live in Wisconsin and the only way we should be able to buy it is either if I was to resell it or if it is installed by a certified mechanic. Your click to buy is an agreement that you will do one or the other.

 One of my best friends IS a certified mechanic, and he has the hose refill kit and gauges. He checks the system and installs what is needed.

 As a side note if you have a Reatta or "baby Riv" you can go through the cars touch screen or dash and get an accurate reading of what is going on with the cars cooling system [all systems actually].

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                      the freeze 12 did not cause your failure.......I've used it in all my old cars for 20 years with no problems whatsoever,

and in my customer's cars for 20 years with no problems whatsoever. 

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Hi Winston

Would you recommend the STV update kit that Rivnut described? Also do you know of an easy check to tell if a car has been converted to 134a? When I bought my car I found the retrofit tag in the owners envelope but nothing was on the system. I don't know if I have R12 or 134a?

Regards

Glenn McMahon

ROA #12929

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                          Yes, I would convert it to a cycling clutch system. My car was converted before I bought it. The main benefit

of this system is that if you get low on freon, the compressor will shut off, saving the compressor from burning up.

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Persistence pays off once again.  Never let it be said that a Riviera owner doesn't know what he wants and goes after it.

 

 

yer not wrong Ed 

 - and were so instrumental in helping go after and get mine...

 

i've been building a '70 T/A Challenger for the last year so have been happily driving my Riv daily enjoying it immensely 

 

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