Triple black 65 riviera on CL for $13,500

[cjp69]

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/5190165041.html

 

 

[Bleach]

Why are all the nice reasonably priced one's on the east coast???

[Matt Harwood]

Buy this one and ship it. It's still cheaper. You can move it coast-to-coast for under $2000. This car for under $16,000 seems like a slam-dunk to me. If I didn't just buy three cars, I'd be on the phone right now acquiring this one to list at $29,900...

[Bleach]

I just refuse to buy any car that I can't personally inspect which why I won't consider any too far from me. So I just lament over cars in other areas and just grumble about the local cars I find. (case and point, the $35K Frankenstein in Oregon)

[lrlforfun]

OK Riviera People: That car is wow. It looks so good and is priced so right and is still available after 24 hours........so many red flags.  Who openly leaves 5-6 Gs on the table?  Mitch

[Guest onedesertdog]

Maybe a death in the family, and the kids just want to get rid of it?

   I don't think I could put that much in mine and make it look that sweet........

[RivNut]

Only one error in the description that I can find; otherwise it looks like a really good deal.  1963 was the only year for leather seats as an option for the first generation Rivieras.

 

Ed

[rivgs]

A lot of people don't seem to know that there used to be vinyl seats in cars. These days it is cloth or leather and some people think it was always that way.  I agree with Bleach, I would want to look it over before buying, Bondo can be made to look REAL good and with the car so reasonably priced, I would be concerned. Then again someone on the board could buy the car and then post pictures of a pristine car and I will kick myself for not taking the chance.

[Guest Rivdog]

Update - I bought this car on Friday. I had been searching CraigsList for about a month for an a/c car with black custom interior with 500 miles of me. I had found it the day before this was posted here. It took over two weeks and over 500 text messages and several phone conversations to convince the owner to sell it to me. There were over two dozen people that wanted the car. I ended up paying 15k for it. It's very nice but was very dirty and needed some things sorted out. I'm getting the clamshell motor redone now and there is a small amount of rust underneath but the body and frame are solid. I drove it back 260 miles from NJ to NH without a problem. Car has a/c, pwr windows and seat, rear defroster and deluxe interior. 

Edited September 15, 2015 by Rivdog (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

VERY nice score! There are going to be more than a few of us kicking ourselves...

[Guest Rivdog]

Thanks Matt. It was a lot of work but I pulled out the old "Nixon charm" and got it done. To show my appreciation my wife and I took the guy and his wife out for a expensive steak dinner with open bar. We had a great time and he's a car guy and knowing how much I love Riv's really won him over I guess. Between the dinner, one way rental car and hotel it cost me almost another $750 but it was worth it. I am really loving the car. 

 

One other thing I'd like to say is how helpful and friendly everyone here has been to a newbie like me. I've owned Corvairs for 20 years and only started branching out to other cars the past few years. I'm really enjoying owning Rivieras. 

[JZRIV]

Congratulations Rivdog! You sure did sniff that one out! Keep us posted with more pics and details as you become more acquainted with the car.

[Guest Rivdog]

Interior courtesy lights were not working. Had not worked for years according to the owner who had it for 9 years. Replaced the fuse and not only did they start working but so did the clock! You know how rare it is for clocks to work in these old cars. It's actually keeping pretty good time too. First classic I ever had with a working clock that I didn't have to repair. 

 

a/c is original R12 so that needs to be converted. More pictures.

 

 

[RockitRiviera]

So, you paid $1500 more than he was asking on Craigslist.  You said he had many folks looking at it.  It must have turn into a highest bidder situation? 

 

Good luck with it!

[Guest Rivdog]

He posted on CL and never showed it to anyone. He was very busy with work and didn't have any time. Everyone including me was trying to be the first one to see it but he said he was too busy to show it. This went on for almost 2 weeks. I almost gave up but I kept making my case on being the first one to see it. I knew the first one to see it would buy it. I basically agreed to pay whatever he wanted for the car (within reason) as long as I had first crack at it. There was no bidding war. He decided on the 15k. I showed up with the cash and it was pouring rain that day so I didn't drive it. I knew by looking at it and hearing it run that it was going to be a decent buy. The next day I drove it home the 260 miles. It was a real risk but I really wanted a deluxe black interior car with a/c. I never worked so hard to buy anything in my life. I guess he vetted the right buyer just by the fact that I remained patient, kept texting him and didn't get frustrated by the fact that it took 2 weeks to end up getting to see the car. He told me I got the car for those reasons and many of the other people were getting pissed off because they could not come and see it. I guess one guy even starting yelling at him on the phone when he told him he had sold the car. 

[RivNut]

Persistence pays off once again.  Never let it be said that a Riviera owner doesn't know what he wants and goes after it.

 

Good score. 

 

Consider keeping the R12.  It will cool the big interior better, it's getting less expensive, and there are some pretty good substitutes out there.

 

Ed

[lrlforfun]

OK RD: I had a feeling there was money on the table with that one.  Occasionally there will be a little sumptin' that falls through the cracks. You also got exactly what you were looking for.  For many that in itself is rare.

 

So now the only thing to do with this is to enjoy it.   Mitch

[jj5794]

Rivdog,

 

 

Congratulations!!!

 

Looks like a great car at a very reasonable price.

 

I agree with Ed about keeping the R-12.

 

 

Jim Vesely

 

BCA # 39477

 

ROA # 7437

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Rivdog]

Hi everyone. How do I keep the R12? I thought it was outlawed or something?

[Pat Curran]

Not sure what laws are applicable regarding the R12 but there seems to be more shops willing to do it now and as Ed states, the price of R12 has come down and it has become easier to find.  I converted the system in my 65 to R134A and although it was adequate, it never seemed to get as cold as the R12.  If I had it to do over, I would have kept the R12.  BTW, you scored a nice car at a great price, even with the dinner thrown in.

[JZRIV]

Yea anyone can buy R12 on craigslist, ebay or those that buy from local swap meets seem to find the best deals. You personally can buy it cheaper than a legitimate A/C repair shop. Technically you need to have EPA certification to buy it but that's not enforced much anymore. The EPA has bigger fish to fry than classic car users in small quantities of R12. You can find it in the original 12 or 14oz cans and it runs around $15-$22/can. You'll need around 6 cans. You can also buy it in a 30lb jug and it will be way cheaper per ounce buying it that way but you end up with a lifetime supply.

Most importantly you will want your A/C thoroughly gone through to make sure everything is OK and NO LEAKS before final system evacuation and charging with R12. At a minimum the receiver dryer needs replaced no matter what.

[Guest Rivdog]

Found the receiver dryer on rockauto. Thanks!

Edited September 16, 2015 by Rivdog (see edit history)

[rocky5517]

The gentleman from Md who writes a column in the Riview every month just recently wrote a good article about A/C, Freon, 134a, etc. He knows what he's talking about. It was in an issue a few months ago.

Keep the R-12. It's legal, as long as you find a guy who's certified to handle it. My 67 runs on R-12 and I usually have to turn it down after a half hr or so. 

After the season I have to get someone to flush the system because I have the 2 different oils mixed together/ I'll get a new dryer, have someone flush it, and I might replace the A/C compressor clutch while I'm at it.

I have to admit feeling kind of "smug" when pulling into a cruise nite or show with the windows rolled up tight.

[DAVES89]

Hi everyone. How do I keep the R12? I thought it was outlawed or something?

 

I just bought 4 cans on Ebay...

[RivNut]

I know they're out there.  One person I know bought 12 POUND bottles for $80 each; that equates to $2.40 per pound.  Look around and see what's out there.  Look for alternatives to R-12: 

 

Alternative refrigerants that have been found acceptable for automotive applications or are currently being reviewed by the EPA include the following blends:

• Free Zone (RB-276).
• Supplied by Refrigerant Gases, this blend contains 79% R-134a, 19% HCFC-142b and 2% lubricant.

• Freeze 12.

• Supplied by Technical Chemical, this blend contains 80% R-134a and 20% HCFC-142b.

• FRIGC (FR-12).
• Made by Intermagnetics General and marketed by Pennzoil, this blend contains 59% R-134a, 39% HCFC-124 and 2% butane.

• GHG-X4 (Autofrost & McCool Chill-It).
• This blend is supplied by Peoples Welding Supply and contains 51% R-22, 28.5% HCFC-124, 16.5% HCFC-142b and 4% isobutane (R-600a).

• GHG-HP
• . Also supplied by Peoples Welding Supply, this blend contains 65% R-22, 31% HCFC-142b and 4% isobutane (R-600a).

• Hot Shot\Kar Kool.
• Supplied by ICOR, this blend contains 50% R-22, 39% HCFC-124, 9.5% HCFC-142b and 1.5% isobutane (R-600a).

 

• R409

Edited September 16, 2015 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Rufcar]

Great find great deal. Congrads. You can buy some r12 cans on ebay sometimes without a license. I have several times. You can usually find some with the filler attachments included. This,way you can fill yourself if you want or a ac service center can use your cans. Jim

[Guest Rivdog]

Just so no one has false expectations on this car's condition. It was a northern car and lived in Long Island and NJ all it's life. It was well taken care of and garaged all it's life (I'm told), however it does have rust underneath. Scaling along everything with some rust through on the wheel wells. It's looks like a northern car under there. That being said it is very nice and presentable but not a show winner by any means. I'd say its a mid 3 car in terms of condition. Paint is glossy and shines nice as you can see in the pictures. Interior is very good. I'm happy with it so I guess that's all that matters. I can fix up the rust underneath and make it look nice over time. 

[1965rivgs]

The gentleman from Md who writes a column in the Riview every month just recently wrote a good article about A/C, Freon, 134a, etc. He knows what he's talking about. It was in an issue a few months ago.

Keep the R-12. It's legal, as long as you find a guy who's certified to handle it. My 67 runs on R-12 and I usually have to turn it down after a half hr or so. 

After the season I have to get someone to flush the system because I have the 2 different oils mixed together/ I'll get a new dryer, have someone flush it, and I might replace the A/C compressor clutch while I'm at it.

I have to admit feeling kind of "smug" when pulling into a cruise nite or show with the windows rolled up tight.

No need to flush the system if your A/C is operating satisfactorily. The only reason to be concerned about too much oil in the system is if the excess oil is interfering with heat exchange. If your system is performing properly that obviously is not happening. Better to have a little too much oil in the system than not enough. By flushing each component you must open the system at each component and will possibly introduce leaks where there presently are none. "If it aint broke, dont fix it" comes to mind....

  Tom Mooney

[RivNut]

The original system uses a Suction Throttle Valve.  The Suction Throttle Valve was used by General Motors in the early 60's as a way to vary the conditioned air's temperature at the evaporator. This method was used instead of cycling the compressor like most modern cars do.  Some of you may remember your car, or other cars from the era having the evaporator "freeze up."  You'd have to turn off the  a/c and let the evaporator thaw out.  The following link is for a kit that converts your OE system to a more modern type system by cycling the compressor to control the temperature.  The guys I know who have done this think it's the best thing since sliced bread - ice cold air and no frozen evaporators.

 

http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalog/valves-ac/50-2500p/stv-update-kit-p-3670.html

[1965rivgs]

The original system uses a Suction Throttle Valve.  The Suction Throttle Valve was used by General Motors in the early 60's as a way to vary the conditioned air's temperature at the evaporator. This method was used instead of cycling the compressor like most modern cars do.  Some of you may remember your car, or other cars from the era having the evaporator "freeze up."  You'd have to turn off the  a/c and let the evaporator thaw out.  The following link is for a kit that converts your OE system to a more modern type system by cycling the compressor to control the temperature.  The guys I know who have done this think it's the best thing since sliced bread - ice cold air and no frozen evaporators.

 

http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalog/valves-ac/50-2500p/stv-update-kit-p-3670.html

Both the expansion valve and the STV valve are designed to work in unison to maintain constant evap pressure. Constant evap pressure directly equates to constant evap TEMP. This is why the old style systems are cold and stay cold, no varying temp with compressor cycling. If these components are operating properly and the air handling aspect of the system is OK the evaporator should not freeze up. Evap freeze up is an indication that something is wrong and needs attention.

A cycling system works at an acceptable level, especially considering the savings associated with not running the compressor full time as a trade off in modern cars, and is greatly simplified; but I dont like the idea of cycling an A6 compressor, especially at highway speeds. Personally, I think it is too hard on the compressor clutch.

And, in spite of what folks say, physics dictates there is a variance in temp output as the evap pressures vary due to the compressor cycling. As an example, an old system will hold evap pressure at 30 lbs CONSTANTLY and therefore maintain a constant temp output, where as a cycling system will pull evap pressure down to 30 lbs, allow the compressor to cycle off, and allow the evap pressure to rise to 40 lbs or more, with the accompanying rise in output temp, before cycling the compressor back on. There is simply no better automotive A/C system than the `60`s A/C systems in terms of cooling performance. There is, however, a price to pay for this performance as they are more complicated to maintain and troubleshoot than the modern cycling systems.

  Tom

[John_S_in_Penna]

My understanding is that, due to environmentalists'

concerns, the PRODUCTION of refrigerant R12 was

outlawed. There was, of course, no prohibition against

using stocks of R12 already made.  So R12 became

harder to find and much more expensive.

 

Rivnut Ed or JJ5794 or others, can you tell us 

a bit more about R12 being cheaper these days?

And can you tell more about the substitutes that

evidently don't require converting the system?

 

I have a few cars that take R12, and I simply haven't

been charging or using the A.C. in recent years.

[RivNut]

I'm just aware that the R12 is getting cheaper because of good ol' econ 101 - supply and demand. I think that you'd find out more if you were to search the internet for answers to your questions. I'm repeating what I've learned from others; that information does not cover your questions in depth.

Ed

[DAVES89]

I once tried "Freeze 12" on a car I no longer own. The compressor died about 3 months later and I had a new compressor installed and everything else cleaned/replaced. This was on a 1992 Roadmaster.

 I then went to Reattas and now own three, all R-12. Until something "breaks" I will stay with pure R-12 as it is way cheaper to add a can when I need it [Haven't in 2 years]. I no longer want to add anything non original to this system. R-12 even if it were $50.00 a can to top your system off is way cheaper then running the risk of replacing a compressor and other parts plus labor.

 I go to Ebay and look for buy it now/free shipping as to me that is the easiest way to buy [No surprises]. My last order was for 4 cans for $110.00. I now have 8 cans in inventory.

 I live in Wisconsin and the only way we should be able to buy it is either if I was to resell it or if it is installed by a certified mechanic. Your click to buy is an agreement that you will do one or the other.

 One of my best friends IS a certified mechanic, and he has the hose refill kit and gauges. He checks the system and installs what is needed.

 As a side note if you have a Reatta or "baby Riv" you can go through the cars touch screen or dash and get an accurate reading of what is going on with the cars cooling system [all systems actually].

[Seafoam65]

                      the freeze 12 did not cause your failure.......I've used it in all my old cars for 20 years with no problems whatsoever,

and in my customer's cars for 20 years with no problems whatsoever. 

[Glenn McMahon]

Hi Winston

Would you recommend the STV update kit that Rivnut described? Also do you know of an easy check to tell if a car has been converted to 134a? When I bought my car I found the retrofit tag in the owners envelope but nothing was on the system. I don't know if I have R12 or 134a?

Regards

Glenn McMahon

ROA #12929

[Seafoam65]

                          Yes, I would convert it to a cycling clutch system. My car was converted before I bought it. The main benefit

of this system is that if you get low on freon, the compressor will shut off, saving the compressor from burning up.

[whitewatersky]

Persistence pays off once again.  Never let it be said that a Riviera owner doesn't know what he wants and goes after it.

 

 

yer not wrong Ed 

 - and were so instrumental in helping go after and get mine...

 

i've been building a '70 T/A Challenger for the last year so have been happily driving my Riv daily enjoying it immensely