Mark Gregory Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 My 1931 Reo Royale Victoria interior structural wood is all rotted . I have replaced the wooden door sills completely and now I am ready to replace what is left of the roof bows . The wood along the back seats and windows . What is the proper spacing between the roof bows and any particular camber as a rule of thumb . The wood that goes around the back seat along the perimeter of the inside car was cut out of finger jointed wood in a jig . I was thinking of laminating 1/8 boards together to follow the curves . As trying to splice all the wood together to follow the pattern of the interior structure . That would not be as strong as laminating the wood . It is like a large horizontal C running from the side window under the back window to the side window. Has anyone tried this before and what were the results ?Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 If you have to go to the trouble of getting an inside contour, then cutting sheets to laminate to that pattern, why not just pattern and cut full width wood in the first place? Also, hope you're using white ash or other suitable wood, oak is a poor choice.There's a booklet available that walks you through the replacement of wood in an antique car, search Internet, I'll see if I can find my copy.Big undertaking, to get it correct, good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregory Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 I would use a piece of wood size as the contour . But it is 18 inches wide and 60 inches long . The length would be alright to use as the grain runs in that direction . But when I come out towards the 18 inch width I am into the cross grain which has no strength . That is why i assume they originally used finger joint so they had no cross grain . Do you have the name of that booklet so I can look it up please . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Don Marsh "Tips on Auto Body Woodwork", you should be able to Google or find a copy on EBay.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Yep....kiln-dried ash is the best for the wood structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 I've done some wood work on early cars (yes, I'm a trimmer, but can turn a wrench too!)....ash is a great wood to work with, within a year or so of felling, cutting, drying....works well, very fine grain so will hold shape and will take screws and nails easily....then, around year 2 or 3, after it's in the car and further dries and ages, it becomes hard as concrete.....so any nails or screws inserted need to be pre-drilled, no big deal, it's a great wood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) We had the emerald ash borer go through South East Mich a few years ago and I lost a lot of trees on my property. Had the logs sawed/ dried/ planed into dimensional lumber and other sizes for wood work on the cars/trucks and now I have enough ash for several vehicles. I just hated to see all of the wood go to fire wood. Edited August 16, 2015 by Larry Schramm (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Yes, glad you saved some, those borer beetles sure are a pain in the ash..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Yes, glad you saved some, those borer beetles sure are a pain in the ash..... LOL & expensive. Probably have over 1,000 board ft +- from all of the trees and still used some for firewood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stakeside Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 If your existing pieces are in poor condition you can save some money and time by making pattern pieces out of softer white pine before final hardwoods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carhistoryforum.com Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Why did they use wood? Can you post pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stakeside Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I choose to make it original as I can. I felt more comfortable with wood. Some have choose to substitute metal for wood. Biggest problem is getting good pattern pieces.I used white oak for the wood. These are my cab build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avantey Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 They used sheet metal skinned over wood because that was the technology of the time. Wagons were all wood just a few decades before (early 1900's) and the metal exterior was a big improvement over that. The metal work tooling industry had not yet developed to where they could make dies for large panels or intricate forms so stamped panels were a rarity until the late 1930's. I believe the 1937 Chevy with the 'turret top' was the first all steel body produced in Detroit with the large single piece stamped roof panel being the major accomplishment no had done before. In 1931 you could hand bend a piece of sheet metal over the simpler wood form for door skins or side panels or used English wheels or other hand worked dies to form compound shapes like fenders. and rear quarter panels. Formed ribs and substructural parts to be welded together were just not the normal construction of the time. This metal over wood structure was still amazing methodology considering the volume of cars made in the era! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Yes, amazing technology, but remember, up into the 30's, there were a LOT of people who knew how to work wood. Oak is fine for a huckster or woody body, if that's the look you're going for, but it's not a good choice for the interior wood of a metal skinned car. Just to clarify..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I think it was the 1935 Chev that was the "turret top". My 1936 had a one piece roof. Budd developed steel bodies from the mid to late '20s. The 1930 Dodge was all steel framing, apart from the floor and roof insert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Here are Mark Gregory's sills.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregory Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 Thanks for posting my pictures keiser31 . As you can see this is one draw back with cars with wood in them . it is a major undertaking to remove the car body just to get at the wood . Stakeside excellent work and one fancy Jig you have made . Trimacar is right about using the right wood in your car . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avantey Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 You are all better historians than I! I just looked and Budd made all steel bodies beginning in 1913 and the first turret top was made by Fisher for the 1935 Chevy. I learned something today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stakeside Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 The cab is called a composite construction by Dodge Brothers. The wood for all parts is white oak. The cuts and shapes were quite basic and no match to the classic car body construction. White oak works great foe simple cuts and shapes. This is a California truck built in Stockton CA. and white oak was availiable. Not sure what they at the Eastern plants in Detriot and Evansville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I always thought that it was interesting that GM could suddenly come up with all steel Fisher bodies the year that the Fisher brothers forests ran out. I guess when they didn't have cheap wood anymore the could press tops like Budd had been doing for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jan arnett (2) Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 If you ever have to do it again you can make the patterns out of foam. I glue together foam insulation panels and then cut with an electric carving knife and you can shape with a surfoam plane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I always thought that it was interesting that GM could suddenly come up with all steel Fisher bodies the year that the Fisher brothers forests ran out. I guess when they didn't have cheap wood anymore the could press tops like Budd had been doing for many years.It was also the year the steel mills began making sheet metal wide enough for a whole roof. Before that, the only way to make a 1 piece roof was to weld it together out of pieces, and lead the seams. This was actually done on the 1936 and 37 Cord, a car that cost more than a Cadillac but was too expensive for lesser cars. Dodge started with all steel bodies in the teens but they were touring cars not sedans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 The technology to stamp the first one piece roof was developed by York Hoover Body in York PA in the early 1930's. They were experimenting with deep draw dies to form one piece caskets, of all things. It wasn't a question of the size of the stampings but rather a question of developing an alloy that would allow such deep stampings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPHIL Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Jeff Wonder if this is why they named the company York Hoover BODY / Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Wonder if this is why they named the company York Hoover BODY /Not quite. See this...http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/y/york_hoover/york_hoover.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregory Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Jan that is a good idea ! I know train model makers use foam . I have some tricky parts to make and that foam would make it a lot easier . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidAU Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 What sort /brand of glue are you guys using on the joints of wooden car frames? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stakeside Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 My Dodge Bros truck wood did not appear to have been glued. Lots of wood screws and good tight joint construction. I wonder if glue would have been an overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Glue would have cost more! If they did use any, it would have been an animal glue. Furniture restorers use it. It allows a certain flexibility in the joints and can be removed with hot water or spirit (alcohol). It sets as soon as it is cold. They probably wouldn't use glue coz vehicle bodies need flexibility to move and twist with the chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregory Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 The wood in my car has lots of finger joint connections and could of been glued together . Wood screws are holding some of the wood pieces together example the frame around the rear window . The wood structure screws were installed around the perimeter and covered with the sheet metal body . So to remove a screw is quite a job as the head is about an 1/8 of an inch away from the sheet metal . I believe Murray Bodies made the Reo bodies . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 It is often difficult to tell if a particular joint was glued or not. Bacteria and various tiny critters have a voracious appetite for hide glue. Just because there is no trace of glue now doesn't mean the joint wasn't glued at the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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