Rogillio Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 The water pump from my '26 DB Coupe leaks a little. Since I have the fenders off and the radiator off, now is a great time to pull the water pump off. I'm going to pull it off the car this weekend. I called Romar and got a quote of $230 to rebuild the water pump. That includes the shaft and packing....but not the impeller or anything else it might need. Seems pretty high......I'm thinking I can rebuild it myself. Anyone ever rebuild a water pump? It doesn't sound that hard. Does it require special tools or knowledge that I'm not aware of? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stakeside Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 The water pump from my '26 DB Coupe leaks a little. Since I have the fenders off and the radiator off, now is a great time to pull the water pump off. I'm going to pull it off the car this weekend. I called Romar and got a quote of $230 to rebuild the water pump. That includes the shaft and packing....but not the impeller or anything else it might need. Seems pretty high......I'm thinking I can rebuild it myself. Anyone ever rebuild a water pump? It doesn't sound that hard. Does it require special tools or knowledge that I'm not aware of? You can repac bearing while on truck. Use graphite packing string from Ace hardware. This may be a quick fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Pick out the packings to check for wear on the shaft.If it's worn (and it undoubtedly is) you'll have trouble keeping it leak free forever.I'm a fan of chromed shaft for water pump shaft replacements because chrome is really slippery and won't corrode. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 Pick out the packings to check for wear on the shaft.If it's worn (and it undoubtedly is) you'll have trouble keeping it leak free forever.I'm a fan of chromed shaft for water pump shaft replacements because chrome is really slippery and won't corrode. Is that what they carry at Myers? Hard to tell from the picture. If not, where would I find a chrome shaft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) I am going through this with my DC pump at the moment. I don't know how yours is built so can't really talk about it. My pump seized due to non-use and when freed water came out of the rear bush oil hole. The DC pump should have "oilite" bushes front and back. They had been replaced with brass with an oil hole at the bottom. The bushes were a mission. I could not get the right size oilite bushes so had to get something I could turn down. You need a very sharp tool to avoid smearing the pores in the bush. Of course you also want pretty small tolerances. My shaft was corroded at the packing and in the rear bush (the one in the water). The bushes had been replaced with brass and after sitting, they had dried out and the brass accelerated corrosion of the shaft, which seized in the bush. I made a new shaft out of silver steel (steel 16 mm dia. or 0.63", shaft 0.611"). I am using PTFE packing braid. BE VERY CAREFUL with graphite-impregnated packing. If it dries out, you will get serious, rapid galvanic corrosion on the shaft. You need to make sure it is oiled or greased well. I would not use graphite, although it is very tempting. Remember that graphite is the bottom of the galvanic scale and steel above half way up. My impeller was OK this time. 20 years ago the "fins" were built up with braze and refaced to the shape of the pump body face. The impeller and pulley are pinned to the shaft. The hardest part was to drill the holes in the shaft for the pins. The factory was not fussy about them so they are not through the shaft centre and are not even perpendicular to the shaft axis. It took a bit of creativity to work out a way to clamp each in place correctly oriented so the drill would go through, then push in the shaft and drill the hole. If you just drill on the side of the shaft the drill will deviate sideways so I started the hole with an end mill. The final piece in the puzzle was to get the end float right. I drilled the pulley hole first, then the impeller with the pump assembled to it. I can say more if any of this fits with what you have to do. I had never done anything like this before but enjoyed it all and it has worked out fairly well. I still have to source the pins (probably make them out of silver steel) and paint the pump. Edited August 7, 2015 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machinist_Bill Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 You just finished painting your Coupe, rebuilding your floorboards, restoring all 4 wheels, converting the electrical from 6v to 12v, and your worried about a small water pump?????Piece of cake.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 8, 2015 Author Share Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) You just finished painting your Coupe, rebuilding your floorboards, restoring all 4 wheels, converting the electrical from 6v to 12v, and your worried about a small water pump?????Piece of cake..........The water pump removal is the toughest thing I have done with these cars. I have learned a lot pulling the distributor and water pump. Edited August 8, 2015 by Rogillio (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 If you know of a hydraulics shop in your area they can provide you with chromed shaft.If not www.mcmaster.com will have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machinist_Bill Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Don't take me the wrong way! I was giving you compliments! Compared to the other work you did (On both Coupes)the water pump is a "Piece Of Cake".Love your work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 8, 2015 Author Share Posted August 8, 2015 Don't take me the wrong way! I was giving you compliments! Compared to the other work you did (On both Coupes)the water pump is a "Piece Of Cake".Love your work!I'm sorry. I misunderstood. I was a little frustrated last night. I broke 3 parts.....both clips on the sides of the distributer that hold the cap on and also the ring that goes on the bottom of the distributer that the spark advance ties into. I also buggered up the top of the distributer shaft. I need to find some pictures or I will never get it all back together right. There are 5 keys on the shaft and I should have taken pictures but didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 8, 2015 Author Share Posted August 8, 2015 The shaft looks different than what Myers has available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machinist_Bill Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Yep. You have to handle the parts with kids gloves sometimes. Meyers should have your shaft just explain that it's a 1927 6V. (I think it's 5/8" diameter)Here is an exploded view of your pump..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 8, 2015 Author Share Posted August 8, 2015 I'm a little concerned about the shaft that Myers has is the correct one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 8, 2015 Author Share Posted August 8, 2015 So putting the distributor back on, I go to #1 TDC......and turn distributer shaft so rotor points to #1 and drop it in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 The shaft looks different than what Myers has available. I've seen my share of shot water pump shafts but that one takes the cake....... Luckily it appears to have only one tapered end so it's not that difficult to make but, as we all know, time is money.Everything else will need to be tuned up too.......especially bushing the pump housings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 8, 2015 Author Share Posted August 8, 2015 I don't understand the centrifugal spring assembly inside the distributer. It is not keyed.....and looks like it is only friction that keeps it on the lower geared shaft. That makes it easier to adjust the timing as I can reassemble everything except the top half of the distributor and then turn that centrifugal advance thing to get the timing right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 8, 2015 Author Share Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) Luckily it appears to have only one tapered end so it's not that difficult to make.....Know any good machinists? ;-). Bill? Edited August 8, 2015 by Rogillio (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) The part of the centrifugal advance with the weights must turn with the shaft or the weights won't do anything so I don't know what's going on with that...... The sprung half should turn with the rotor and the pinned side turn with the lower shaft.The advance in yours is IN the distributor (where it belongs I might add...... ) unlike on my '25 where it is entirely removed from the actual distributor and SEEMS to act on the spiral drive gear to advance the timing.A very caddy thing I think but I'm not taking it apart to find out how it really functions....... And yes.......I happen to know some very good machinists....... Edited August 8, 2015 by cahartley (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I purchased the shaft for my '25 from Romar and it was stainless steel. It fit fine but it does appear the '26 shaft is a bit more complex. Maybe some JB Weld on the distributor piece until you can source another one. Myers has some used parts (not listed in the catalog), just ask them if they have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) The '26 (6volt 2 Unit) pumps are different from the earlier ones and have a longer (12") shaft. If you tell Cindy Myers what year you want they should be able to help. Make sure you ask for either the straight or tapered end which fits in the driver for the flexible coupling as there are two kinds. As far as I know they don't supply chromed shafts - but so long as it does the trick...I bought one of their shafts (with keys) and it suits my purposes. The flange inside my original pump had rusted away. At first I made a separate recessed flange and fitted it between the two halves. It worked well enough but eventually I located a replacement pump body through Ron Lawson in Oz and used it as a core. They are hard to find. I had a mate turn up some new bushes. Machinist Bill was rebuilding his pump at the same time and sent me some lip seals (in preference to the graphite rope) that work fine. I had to work on riveting the original impeller but it turned out O.K. I also fitted a brass drain tap with a neat little spout. You can get new gaskets from myers or make your own. New flexible couplings are also available with the correct shoulder bolts. One of the rumbles that you can often hear is the big distributor gear. I recently stumbled on a way of taking up the play. I fitted a distance piece on the shaft behind the pulley up against the end packing nut. It is not a tight fit because I was concerned about fouling the impeller but just enough to take up the end float. I used a couple of washers which I greased well. The difference is a marked improvement. Ray. Edited August 9, 2015 by R.White (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 Very frustrated!Got new shaft and grease packing things. Beat everything together. All looked good. Except dist shaft did not enrage. If I lifted it up, it engaged. But let it go and it dropped and did not engage, wTh?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 That's pretty interesting....... How can two shafts in the same relative planes NOT line up?....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 I think they line up but what keeps the distributer shaft from dropping down past the gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) I had to make a tool to fit the water pump jam nuts. I had an old tool that was for an old router that I no longer have so I just used a grider to make the right size......much cheaper than buyinng a wrench. :-) The only issue I had assembling the water pump was putting the pins in the small gear and in the impeller. The hole did not match up perfectly....the gear and impeller are both keyed so they won't rotate.....and the hole were just hair offset. I ground the pins a little and then beat them in as best I could. At any rate, I think the pump is right. I looked down in the water pump this morning and it looks like the distributer shaft lines up with the gear. So I put the distruter together so the shaft was held (verticall) and then tried to install the dristibuter....and it would not mesh up with the gear. Oviously I cannot see inside the pump when I did this so have no idea where it is hitting and why it won't mesh up. I think maybe the shaft needs to move slightly forward or aft. I will try that tonight and hopefully it will mate up. The book talks about removing the 'cam nut' but I don't think there is a cam nut. The cam assembly does not come apart! I scarred up the end of the cam assembly thinking it was a nut and trying to get it off. I almost runed the thing! I actually bent the top a little an then the rotor button would not fit.....but I got it bent back. Edited August 13, 2015 by Rogillio (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 So with a little cropping and cutting/pasting....these are the two gears that are not meshing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 Sorry for all the pictures....but help me out. Look at these two befor and after pictures. I am worried now that the brass insert has slipped. Hard to tell on the old picture as there is to much grease and not a great picture but I'm worried now at if the brass insert is not where it is supposed to be, the shaft may not be in the right position horizontally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I assume you put the impeller on the new shaft the right way round? I had similar problems with the hole being offset. Have you tried gently turning the distributor shaft as you push it down into mesh? BTW I think the 'cam nut' that the manual refers to is the whole cam assembly. Perhaps they called it a nut because it has flats on it?. There should be a small round piece of felt down in the end of the shaft under the rotor arm that should be kept moist with engine oil. Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 I put the impeller on so that it will pass water with the fins....I puzzled over that but if you put in in backward it is real obvious that you are blockig the outlet. I turned the hand crank while pushing the distutor down but it did not mesh. I think the mis-alignment is horizontal....along the axis of the water pump shaft. I think there sould be a little bit of 'play' there so I will try tapping on the ends of the shaft tonight and see if that helps. So that cam assembly just sits on the distributer shaft and is not key or pinned? As best I can tell it stays in place just by friction. Can your confirm this? I found the felt when I was cleaning it in the kitchen sink! Yeah, Mrs Rogillio loves it when I use the kitchen sink to wash parts......but she was not home at the time. I figured it was there to keep oil. So the tricky part of this is gonna be getting that cam assembly in the right position when it seats on the shaft so the timing is correct. I think what I'm gonna try is to mesh up the shaft and then put the distributer body on and then put the cam assembly on...the problem is gonna be getting the cam assy to seat because if your push down on the disctibuter shaft, it goes down....past the gear it is supposed to mesh with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylormade Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I'm beginning to think that $230 quote from Romar is looking better all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I can't see how your distributor shaft can drive the rotor. Obviously it can't just sit on the top of the shaft. Has it sheared off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 I'm beginning to think that $230 quote from Romar is looking better all the time. But I would still have had to remove the pump from the motor....which was a core since I didn't know how to get the distributer off so would have had that issue regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 I can't see how your distributor shaft can drive the rotor. Obviously it can't just sit on the top of the shaft. Has it sheared off? I wondered the same thing....but there is nothing on the shaft where a sheer pin would go....the shaft is completely soom around where that cam assy goes. It seats good when it is on there and you can't turn it by had and it is very hard to get back off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 Little experiment here to see which picture give better resolution of the distribtor shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I wondered if there is a detent or something in the end of the shaft? If it is supposed to be like you say then I think you have found something that has never, since I have been posting, been mentioned on the DB forum before. I notice there is quite a bit of wear to the shaft. If you intend to stick with the original contact breaker points system then it would be worth attending to. If you opt for electronic ignition it will have little or no effect. What holds the rotor on then? I know there is only the small resistance of the points spring but what with heat and vibration I would have thought it could move? I notice there is a locking nut on the earlier models. It's not even a taper is it?. Curious. Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 I wondered if there is a detent or something in the end of the shaft? If it is supposed to be like you say then I think you have found something that has never, since I have been posting, been mentioned on the DB forum before. I notice there is quite a bit of wear to the shaft. If you intend to stick with the original contact breaker points system then it would be worth attending to. If you opt for electronic ignition it will have little or no effect. What holds the rotor on then? I know there is only the small resistance of the points spring but what with heat and vibration I would have thought it could move? I notice there is a locking nut on the earlier models. It's not even a taper is it?. Curious. Ray. It must be tapered. The rotor sits in the slot on the end of the cam assy. The electronic ignition is my Alamo plan if I can't get this working. But don't you still need a rotor with an electronic ignition? I really have no idea how they work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I would not like to comment on electronics. All too much for my little grey cells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Sorry for all the pictures....but help me out. Look at these two befor and after pictures. I am worried now that the brass insert has slipped. Hard to tell on the old picture as there is to much grease and not a great picture but I'm worried now at if the brass insert is not where it is supposed to be, the shaft may not be in the right position horizontally.It appears the gear on the new shaft is a trifle more distant from the housing in the "new" photo.Did you bottom the bushing in the pump housing?My '25 has the nut on top of the distributor shaft which allows the lobed part to be adjusted in exactly the same way as on Model A Fords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogillio Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 It appears the gear on the new shaft is a trifle more distant from the housing in the "new" photo.Did you bottom the bushing in the pump housing?My '25 has the nut on top of the distributor shaft which allows the lobed part to be adjusted in exactly the same way as on Model A Fords. "Did you bottom the bushing in the pump housing?" I don't know that means so evidently not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 It seems the bushing is sticking out more in the "new" photo than before.......it's hard to tell with the grease over it in the first photo.I'm grasping at straws too....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 It seems the bushing is sticking out more in the "new" photo than before.......it's hard to tell with the grease over it in the first photo.I'm grasping at straws too....... Hmmm...I don't think he has pulled the bushes yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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