classic cars

[Guest]

Is a classic car still considered a classic if it has a rebuilt engine?

[Mark Huston]

A Classic Car are those cars recognized by the Classic Car Club of America, you can find a full list of those cars through the link to the CCCA web site in the column to the left. Also, those cars listed are Classic's regardless of the condition, restored or unrestored, rebuilt or original.

[Guest]

Mr. Huston, thank you very much.

[Guest]

For Unregis User "NOVICE"<P>Can you tell us more about what you mean by "re built" engine..? We may be confusing each other in use of terminology.<P>As others have noted, the CCCA has a list of cars which our Club has bestowed "classic" status on. While there are an increasing number of exceptions, generally speaking, we are referring to "the best of the best"....typically, the largest, most powerful, most elegant luxury cars of the so called "classic era".<P>Again, while there are exceptions, when we say "classic"...we mean that period in automotive design history, AFTER technology of the auto had been pretty much perfected (around 1925)...but BEFORE design theory changed to the "stream-lined" era around 1940.<P>When we say "re-built" engine, what we mean is...the motor has been removed from the chassis, and completely dis-assembled. Each moving part's clearances are re-worked so that the running clearances are returned to "factory new" specs. The idea is to return the car to its operating condition when new.<P>Hopefully, you are not confusing the term "re built"...with re-engined ! The hard fact is, that even the biggest, most powerful motors of the classic era, while overwhelmingly superior to the ordinary car of THEIR day, are hopeplessly inferior in performance to what modern technology has given us since the 1950's. Even during the early years of the Classic Car Club Of America, it was common to find a Packard Standard Eight of the 1930's re-fitted with a Packard eight from the 1950-1954 era, and, of course, even more common to find people with Lincoln Continentals...with late (meaning 1950's) Cadillac V-8's in them.<P>Within the confines of the CCCA, we disapprove of this - our objectives are historical accuracy, and thus, at least from our standpoint, this effectively destroys the car.<P>Please feel free to post your questions, no matter how embarssed or silly you feel about your ignorance. We are ALL ignorant to some degree...and the ONLY way we can improve our knowledge, is by asking questions ! There are NO stupid questions !<P>Pete Hartmann

[Guest]

Thank you Mr. Hartmann, for your response. Using your Packard example, let's say for instance a '40-42 era classic Packard (on the CCA "classic" list)if it's Super 8 engine was replaced with a Super 8 engine from the 1950-54 era.

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

Thet's not "rebuilt" that's swapped. You would receive a fairly serious point deduction in CCCA judging. You would also not be eligible for CARavans if anybody figured it out.

[Guest]

Hi Chuck:<P>Where on earth did you get the idea that an "engine swap" of the type being discussed here would result in "serious point deductions"....?<P>There are NO "point deductions"...when you alter a classic car this way....because...unless there have been some major changes in policy of the CCCA, our traditional rule on engine changes is....THERE ARE NO POINTS...PERIOD...SUCH A CAR IS NOT ELIGIBLE...PERIOD....to participate in ANY CCCA judging event! And again, our judging rules are not subject to interpetation by individual Regions. <P>Pete Hartmann<BR>Big Springs, AZ

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

You are correct; you would be disqualified from judging in CCCA for having a non-authentic engine in your car. If you put a 350 Chevy engine in your Packard, you?re outta here.<P>BUT, according to the Judges Handbook, if the engine is off a year or two, but is identical to the basic design of the correct engine, that is a one-point deduction. If the engine is off several years but still of the same basic design (which may have some very minor block changes) then that is a 2 or 3 point deduction. If the engine is off 10years or so, but still is of the same basic design (may have minor block changes) then that is a 3-4 point deduction. The Handbook goes onto say: ?A different size or type engine, a non-classic era engine or a different make engine is an automatic disqualification.?<P>SO, the rules are not as tidy as you would imagine them to be. I didn?t write them, but for those of you who have questions about CCCA Judging Rules, both the Rules and the Handbook are on the CCCA Web Site. You can look this stuff up yourself.<P>Chuck

[Guest]

Hmmmm...interesting....Chuck...from what you tell me.."while the cat was away...the mice were at play..." !<P>( Last time I was at a National Board meeting, we were still hdqtrd. in New Jersey....I remember having dinner there with some of the "old bunch"...and us all nodding in agreement...that if the Club ever left New Jersey...and was no longer under the "eye" of "right thinking" folks...the Club ..heck..the whole WORLD would go to hell in a handbasket....<P>SEE...we were RIGHT....! Well..even that isn't entirely true...at least we now have BRITNEY SPEARS...and let me tell you....her dance videos are a HELL of a lot more fun than what we had back then....!<P>Pete Hartmann

[Bill Stoneberg]

See Peter,<BR>Brittney Spears Dance Videos... The world has gone to hell in a handbasket. What more proof do you need !

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

Well Peter, there is no doubt that Britney has some very attractive body parts. They probably look better that your Packard. <P>Can?t say I really like her music though. I guess I?m getting old. (But I?m not dead).<BR> <BR>Chuck

[Guest]

Conrad..you moron..you arent SUPPOSED to listen to the girl's music...you are supposed to LOOK at the way she moves.....why do you think God gave us HANDS....anyway.....TO HOLD OVER YOUR EARS WHEN KIDS LIKE THAT OPEN THEIR MOUTHS....!<P>Pete Hartmann

[Guest]

You make me ill Peter.

[Guest]

For "unregis. / anony"

Please note this is a technical chat, for people with a serious interest in issues related to classic automobiles. Our primary focus is on assisting each other in the maintainence of the finest cars from the classic era, with a secondary purpose of having a little fun.

If and when you have an interest in participating in the above, I am sure you will be welcome here. However, so long as you feel a need to be antagonistic and dwell on personalities, may I respecfully suggest you find a chat room more in tune with your needs....

Pete Hartmann

Big Springs, AZ

[Guest]

Yeah, unregistered, like Peter said, stick to the appropriate subjects like ...uh...Brittney Spears, lawn tractors, why all these whippersnappers

nowdays are such idiots, etc.

[CBoz]

Woops, forgot to sign on. Just wanted you to know who was pulling on the chain, Pete.

[2nd anonymous; not the first!]

[Guest]

"Pete" since when have your postings ever been "technical", all I ever see you write is thinly veiled personal attacks usually liberally sprinkled with some sort of endless speech about your definition of classic cars. Most of the time everyone here would wish you would just keep your opinions to yourself, everytime you post something I find I have to skip over it because it is almost always nonsense and tainted with hatred for anything "nonclassic".

Please give us a break, and don't bother to reply because I don't care to hear more endless blather about classic this and classic that. Your secondary purpose has and always has been about having fun at the expense of others and lately you have been condemning an entire generation of young people by saying they are all uneducated and worthless. No one wants to hear it.

[Buicksplus]

Hey, we all know that Peter a forum vulture and most of his posts are at least mildly offensive. But I must say that until Peter flames, hardly anyone graces this forum -- except for innocents who usually who stray in and receive a pit bull attack. But give him credit at least for keeping some discussion going, even if it gets pretty low sometimes.

If there is a better way, it would be for more posts dealing with the technical, fun and controvercial aspects of the CCCA. There are plenty of them to talk about.

ps what do you all think of the new message format? I thank PeterG for his work, but so far I kind of miss the old format.

All the best,

Bill

Albuquerque, NM

[Guest]

Any chance you two guys could stop whining about me...GROW UP..and start contributing something of interest to classic car buffs..? Do you have anything useful to contribute to this particular "thread"..?

Pete Hartmann

Big Springs, AZ