Special Spring Grand Classic

[Guest]

Having just gotten back from Naples Florida and attending this event, I would like to give the lerkers in this room my thoughts on the CCCA. There where many fine people whom owned outstanding cars attended this event. Of the people I had a chance to meet and talk to people about thier cars NO ONE SPOUT THE GARABAGE ABOUT THE FULL CLASSIC CARS THAT MR. HARTMANN HAS. The CCCA is a fine is a fine club. Which I might add I intend to join.

[Guest]

I was a guest judge at a CCCA meet a bit ago and also had only positive interactions with everyone.

[Ed Miller]

Packard53, what a coincidence I attended the Naples Grand Classic also. I wonder if we ran into each other there. I agree it was a great show. There were 41 Full Classics judged on the grounds of the Collier Museum (ex-Briggs Cunningham Collection)which was opened to us CCCA people. My 1932 Cadillac scored 99.75 (if I had only wiped off the bird dropping on the hood). I consider the Voisin the ugliest Full Classic auto manufacturer. But still find it a fascinating car. The was one at the show that was ugly but was a show stopper. It was elegantly ugly! The interior had more wood than most trees. An oddity of the show was that there were more Cadillacs present than Packards. I brought one of each. Well, on to the next show!

[Guest]

For Pack 53<P>I am sorry you think the various quotations, publications, tech. info. I have noted for you, are "garbage". I am pleased that you enjoyed attending one of our events, and of course all auto enthusiasts interested in TRUE CLASSICS are welcome in the Club, whether or not they actually own a TRUE CLASSIC car.<P>But I am a little troubled by your focus. You may want to obtain a copy of this month's " CLASSIC CAR MAGAZINE". This particular issue celebrates the 50th Anniversary of our Club; includes a number of historical articles that might give you a better idea where we are as a Club, and where we are going.<P>It is true that the intense membership drives of the past 30 years have brought in a number of people who have little understanding about what this Club is about, and/or if they do "understand", they just dont like it, and want VERY badly to dillute and change it. <P>If you rank yourself in THAT group, be prepared to be disappointed - the "old guard" has been successful in turning back those who have other ideas for our Club; recent surveys of the Club membership confirm the overwhelming majority of members want our traditions & focus RESPECTED AND UNCHANGED.<P>Before joining an organization whose goals, ideals, and methodology may differ from what pleases you, I strongly recommend to all who THINK they are interested, do some research - read our Club publications, find out what our membership really thinks, and then make the decision whether we are really worth your time !<P>Pete Hartmann<BR>Big Springs, AZ

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

Peter, I'm sure your intentions are simply to let folks know that they really should check out any organization before joining it. I certainly agree.<P>I also know that face to face, you're a nice guy with a lot of fascinating knowledge that you enjoy sharing. Unfortunately, that would be hard for a total stranger to figure out from your last post. I guess what bothered me was when you said <I>"find out what our membership really thinks, and then make the decision whether we are really worth your time."</I><P><B>OF COURSE WE ARE WORTH THE TIME! </B><P>Appreciation of the cars we honor in CCCA is somewhat of an acquired taste. We should be doing our best to generate interest in our Club, and our cars, There is little to be gained by discouraging people from joining. <P>As witnessed by a couple of very favorable posts in this string, we have great events. The cars speak for themselves (awesome). You'd be hard pressed to find a group of nicer or more interesting people. CCCA is a terriffic club.<P>Any member's car that is on the CCCA Approved Classics List is welcome at any CCCA event. People who have an interest in these cars are more than welcome to become members. Joining the Club is the easiest way to find out about our particular niche of the old car hobby. It's the best way to find out where the really great cars are parked. You might even have fun too!

[Mark Huston]

As usual, Chuck Conrad comments are right on the money. I have never met Chuck or Peter and I am new to the CCCA. My only meet that I have the chance to attend was the National meet held in San Jose this past January. The members at that event were the most generous and nicest people I have ever had the privilege of meeting. We all had a common interest - Full Classic Cars - no specific make or model - but ALL Full Classics. I enjoyed all the cars on display, from the Dusenbergs to the unrestored original Stutz. They all had something to offer - as did the people. And that is what it is all about, each car is different as well as the people, if you look there is good to be found in all the various Classics AND the memebers.

[Guest]

Hi Chuck !<P>Fully agree with your post. You may not be aware that many years ago, I personally WROTE the section in the Handbook And Directory regarding "joint events" and was flattered and pleased that the National Board adopted my proposal for that section, word for word. Therefore, I assure you that you dont have to tell me that we in the CCCA enjoy and welcome ALL manner of cars and car buffs, within the context and frame of reference our Rule)s provide.<P>What you may not be aware of, is that our friend '53 is, at least from my vantage-point, comparitvely new to the old car hobby in general, and not that familiar with what we, within the context of this particular Club, are all about. He has in the past expressed feelings indicating he was somehwhat ill at ease with some of our rules. When I quoted him some passages from various tech. historical info, expressed discomfort with that too. <P>I think all of us have an obligation to try and learn as much as we can, in any area we are interested in, and the best way to do that, is to share info. <P>In '53's case, I have patiently tried to share info. with him, and, hopefully, he will be a little more patient with us; hopefully he will keep his mind open to opinions and club psychology he might otherwise have difficulty with. <P>Pete Hartmann<BR>Big Springs, AZ

[Guest]

To Pete in AZ,<BR>I'm sure that in person you are a nice guy, but I think the guy who started this post was making reference to your written posts, where frankly you often come across as "abrasive" for lack of a better word. <BR>I would think you could make the same valid points that you make, and better capture the attention of your intended reader, if you used a lighter tone.<BR>This comment is meant as constructive, and just my two cents.

[Ed Miller]

The truth is revealed! Last weekend Packard 53 spent it as my guest at the Naples, Florida Grand Classic and boarded in my guesthouse. I made certain that he was either inspecting Full Classics, talking Full Classics or reading Full Classics the entire weekend. He went home ready, willing and eager to become a member of CCCA (see, brainwashing does work). For the first time he read our bulletin and magazine. He is hooked...addicted...enslaved to Full Classics!

[Guest]

Friends:<P>Here we go again. I must give Peter credit, he has done more than any of us to liven up these discussions. His outrageous comments sprinkled with CAPS and QUOTES always inspire me to post.<P>As a long time member of the CCCA, I have had countless favorable interactions with CCCA'ers and have met a number of dear car friends through this club. I am not surprised to hear that others have similiar experiences. CCCA has always been gracious and well mannered, that is an ingrained part of the club's personna.<P>But just for the record, I do not go to any of the club's automotive events (Caravans or Grand Classics) because I don't currently have a Full Classic. I have quite a few old cars, and frankly I just don't have time to go to a CCCA event and be a half participant. Especially when all the other clubs I am in have events that I can fully participate in. I like to tour and show my cars, I am not a gawker, though I certainly appreciate the quality and splendor of any fine old car.<P>I read with great interest the history of CCCA in the recent Classic Car. The CCCA started with a bunch of up and coming twenty somethings who had an interest in collecting, perserving, and buying and trading relatively new "Classic" cars. These cars were plentiful then and not particularly expensive. No one really wanted these gas guzzling symbols of a prewar era most wanted to forget. No one, except for the folks starting the CCCA. So the club started from rather humble origins, a group of folks trying to save something that mattered to them.<P>One problem with the CCCA today is that there is not much of an entry level available to the club. The little there is, such as the Cad 62 and 60S are usually derided as not being the real Classics. This is way I am so disturbed by statements that suggest inclusion of these cars was a mistake, and we won't let it happen again. This would be a big mistake, then the tiny entry level that's there would be completely gone.<P>As long as I am a member of the CCCA, I am going to continue to urge broadening the list of Full Classics. And people will say that this will dilute the club and be a disaster. In doing so, I think I am following the spirit of the the club's originators. All clubs need an entry level. There are only so many young dot com millionares out there who decide they want to get into "Classic Cars" and want to drop a few hundred K a big chrome monster. Or old folks who bought their Classic in the 50's and have hung onto it for years and years. <P>Have at it Peter, and yes I may join you for lunch some day in Prescott. The last time I was there was in my '54 Austin Healey (nc) on a VMCCA tour. Loved it all, especially nearby Jerome.<P>Bill.

[Guest]

To Bill...and anyone else who is curious about why we as a Club...are "the way we are"....!<P>I STRONGLY recommend to all, both non members and members alike, to come to CCCA events. While we traditionally do not hold public events, we always weclome people with a sincere interest in classic automobiles.<BR>Remember, the word "classic" was unknown to the automotive hobbyist until OUR Club brought the idea to the world, that the large, powerful, super-luxury cars of the 1935-1942 era were worthy of preservation. The fact that everyone NOW uses the word "classic" to compliment ANYTHING they like, is a credit to the success of the CCCA in promoting excellence.<P>Yes, I remember the "fight" over admission of the 41 Cad. 60 Specials to "classic" status. I particularly remember the impassioned letter of a CCCA member who OWNED one; he wrote why they should NOT be given "classic" status. As he correctly pointed out, these cars were WAY TOO MODERN in styling and execution, to be considred of the "classic" era.<P>The PROBLEM is, at the time the founding members picked the word "classic" to describe the essence of that KIND of car this particular Club was designed to preserve, there were MUCH higher educational standards than these days. At that time, more people knew and understood that the word "classic" meant a particular "school of design" i.e. "form follows function".<P>Thus the "classic" era was that time during which a headlight stood apart, reflecting its function - a fender stood apart, a hood stood apart - each design form reflected its function. A '41 Cad. clearly was of the "streamlined" design theory, and thus, according to the reasoning of those who understood the REAL meaning of the word "classic", was too "new" to be appropriate for THIS particular Club.<P>Of course those who just LIKE to use the word "classic" (and/or those who want to "un;oad" an old car, won out - as we now know, the word "classic" means any old car you either like, and/or want to sell.<P>By attending our meets, talking to our members, and studying the cars most typical of the "classic" era, you will get a better "feel" for why the early members started this particular Club, and why we feel so strongly that we were RIGHT in getting this particular Club going, and why so many of us think it should remain the way it is.<P>If ANY of you see my car at a CCCA meet, please consider this a personal invitation to c'mon over and introduce yourself - and we will go for a ride. Of course I am a Packard Twelve maniac..but I will try and get you rides in other big-engined classics too. The more information you have about the classic era, and those "engineering exaggerations, magnificently over-done" that the Club was started to preserve, the better understanding you will have of what we are about.<P>This particular Club is NOT for everyone. There are lots of very good ordinary old cars out there, and lots of nice people who like ordinary old cars, (including us CCCA members....) and lots of car clubs designed for them, with their preferences in mind. Again, the more you know, the better informed your decision about which clubs are "right" for you, will be !<P>Pete Hartmann<BR>Big Springs, AZ

[Guest]

typo error in above post...I <BR>meant..<P> 1925 to 1942 era