Vintagecarguy Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Hello all,my grandfather just bought a 1932 Pontiac model 402 coupe and we're in the process of getting it going again. We ordered some new Champion D16 spark plugs; they were the kind that was already in the Pontiac. But I'm not really sure of the gap that should be on the plug. I am also looking for an Owners manual. Does anyone have an idea where I could find one? I've looked around and can not seem to find one.Thanks in advance.Vintagecarguy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 According to the shop manual your spark plugs should be AC G-14. Spark plug gap is .025" The point gap is .022"Having driven my Series 6-30B Pontiac daily since 1959 (400,000+ miles since I started driving my Grandfathers car) I would not use a Champion plug if I could get and AC. I think Champion might be okay plugs if you got the right heat range for your specific operation. It always seemed to me that they were a couple of ranges too hot. The AC plugs lasted 10,000 miles and were finished. The Champion plugs also lasted 10,000 miles before they were finished but had to be cleaned at least once in that distance. Thirty years ago I discovered NGK plugs. Their AB-6 plug is the equivalent of the original AC G-14 but vastly superior. 20,000 miles before cleaning and another 10,000 miles before they were wore out. I worked in parts for a GM Dealer from 1959 to 1973 and thought that AC Delco could never be beat. If it was good for the General (GM) it had to be good for the customer. Now I wouldn't touch an AC Delco part for any reason. However I have a complete set of new AC ignition parts that I could install if I put my car up for judging but I use blue point ignition parts and NGK plugs for reliable driving.I'm not sure if there is or ever was a shop manual for 32. I have one for every year from 26 to 54 but have never seen a 32. You might see an "Instructions for the Care and Operation of Pontiac Six Motor Cars" on e-bay or sometimes Abe books. Any edition nine or up would help you (nine is 29-30). There are many changes between 29 and 32 but the basic engine and operation of the car is the same. You have no rear engine mount but have two mounts on the transmission. Your exhaust manifold is angled at the back making for a freer flowing exhaust and a lower mounted body. I believe you have rubber mounted spring shackles and your transmission may have free-wheeling.Your 32 should run down the highway at 55 or 60 all day with no trouble. If you have half as much fun in yours as I have with mine you will have a ball. I have driven my "Tinindian" in every Province from BC to Ontario and in every state west of the Mississippi.Happy Mooring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARY F Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 in smoke signals mag. there are guys that sell service manuals., also in hemmings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I haven't bought anything from these guys but I see they have some stuff that is '32 related. http://www.faxonautoliterature.com/Search.aspx?c=3342 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintagecarguy Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Thank you all for responding. I'm sorry I didn't get back sooner. When I posted my question I forgot to hit the 'subscribe' button so I would get notifications when someone commented.Thanks again everyone. GARY F, I got a box full of Smoke Signal Magazines with the car. They are old. But maybe I will find something in one of them. Tinindian, Thank you for your support. My grandfather and I first saw this car eight or nine years ago and back then it was really nice. At that time the owner didn't want to sell. According to his wife he didn't have time for it as the years went on and now it's kind of on the cusp of being a good driver if it runs or fixing some of the rust issues if it runs. Thank you again. One other question is how much should the brake pedal move when pressed? Thanks again.Vintagecarguy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintagecarguy Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 Hello all,well while trying to start the '32 Pontiac the starter bendix drive stopped engaging the pinion gear on the flywheel . Is a Pontiac starter similar to a Chevy's starter? Do all GM cars use Delco-Remy starters, generators, and distributors?Thanks in advance. Vintagecarguy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Your starter drive is not a bendix. A bendix drive engages the flywheel by centrifugal force. Your drive is engaged by mechanical means. When you press the starter pedal the starter drive is forced into the flywheel and then the last quarter inch makes the electrical contact that spins the starter.Are you sure it is not engaging or is the electrical contact on the top of the starter not making electrical contact. The switch is held on with two screws, is quite economical and is available almost anywhere. Chrysler products used a similar (in some cases the same) switch in the flatheads until the advent of the push button start. If you take your switch off you will find a square brass contact with beveled sides. Often you can turn it a quarter turn and use the parts that are not worn.When your brakes are set properly all four wheels should lock when the pedal is about three inches from the toe boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintagecarguy Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 Your starter drive is not a bendix. A bendix drive engages the flywheel by centrifugal force. Your drive is engaged by mechanical means. When you press the starter pedal the starter drive is forced into the flywheel and then the last quarter inch makes the electrical contact that spins the starter.Are you sure it is not engaging or is the electrical contact on the top of the starter not making electrical contact. The switch is held on with two screws, is quite economical and is available almost anywhere. Chrysler products used a similar (in some cases the same) switch in the flatheads until the advent of the push button start. If you take your switch off you will find a square brass contact with beveled sides. Often you can turn it a quarter turn and use the parts that are not worn.When your brakes are set properly all four wheels should lock when the pedal is about three inches from the toe boards.Tinindian,Thanks for the reply. The starter spins but does not not engage. So the pinion gear engagement is mechanical? What would cause it not to engage? Could I have not pressed the pedal down far enough? It was working and then it stopped which is what made it so confusing. Thank you again for this information.About the brakes, right now the brake pedal is very firm with next to no give. Could this mean that some brake components are rusty and stuck?Thank you again.Vintagecarguy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 It's possible the edges of the pinion teeth could be burred but my starter pinion is still the original one so it is likely something else. Also the teeth on the flywheel could be chipped or missing even. With the car in gear you could roll it ahead or back six inches to turn the engine to a different spot. It is awkward when you don't know why they stopped using the car. You need to step quickly down on the pedal, right to the bottom. If you look at the top of the starter you will see an adjustable arm (cotter pin on the starter end and swivel on the other end). You can see how the lever going into the starter housing pushes the drive pinion back and then contacts the switch on the top of the starter. If you have a strong hand you can engage the starter there or you could use a large screwdriver to engage the drive. Above the starter on the flywheel housing is a round plug that you can pull off in order to wee the timing marks on the flywheel. You can look in there and see the flywheel teeth. Sometimes my starter just spins. When that happens I turn the key off wait a couple of seconds turn it on again and all is well. I don't understand why turning the ignition off and then on affects anything but that is what my Grandfather did when it happened to him. He said it always missed engaging two or three times a year even when new. On of life's little "idiotsyncracies". There is no logical explanation except that the time taken to turn the key off and then on allows the starter pinion to fully stop spinning. Do a google search for starter drives or go to http://www.autocorner.ca/pages/starterdrive.html you want to study "overrunning clutch mechanically engaged". This is one of those places where common misusage of words confuses things. Just like people calling a differential carrier a pumpkin or using two door post or four door post rather than two door (coach) or four door or (sedan) or hardtop.Your four brake cables could be rusted. For a start you could spray the cables thoroughly with a penetrant. Put something underneath and really soak them. All the other connections are clevis and pins so there is really nothing else to seize up. All the clevis pins should be left dry (if oiled they collect dirt and then wear). When operating properly the brake pedal is quite soft and the shoes are self energizing so you don't have to push very hard at all. Search "Midland Steeldraulic" for information.Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintagecarguy Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 Tinindian,Thank you for the information. Would the key being off have anything to do with the starter engaging? I know most cars of the 20s, 30s, and 40s don't need the key on for the starter to work, but could this car be different? I will give the starter solenoid a try with a screw driver. So for me to be sure, when you press the starter pedal down, and it presses the button on the solenoid there is another linkage under the solenoid which puts the pinion in place on the flywheel? According to the wife who sold us the car, the car was running last October before her husband passed away, but it has been sitting out for some time.Thank you again for your help. Vintagecarguy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 No you have it backwards. There is no solenoid on your starter. The mechanical linkage pushes the starter drive into mesh with the flywheel in the first three quarters of its travel. The last quarter of its travel presses on the switch on the starter to complete the electrical circuit.You can press the switch down with your hand and the starter will spin but there is no way of engaging the starter drive without either pressing the foot pedal or using some type of a lever (under the hood and between the toe board and the linkage) to push the lever forward which pushed the drive to the rear into the flywheel.The key is mostly an ignition switch. It only feeds the coil and the stop light switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintagecarguy Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 No you have it backwards. There is no solenoid on your starter. The mechanical linkage pushes the starter drive into mesh with the flywheel in the first three quarters of its travel. The last quarter of its travel presses on the switch on the starter to complete the electrical circuit.You can press the switch down with your hand and the starter will spin but there is no way of engaging the starter drive without either pressing the foot pedal or using some type of a lever (under the hood and between the toe board and the linkage) to push the lever forward which pushed the drive to the rear into the flywheel.The key is mostly an ignition switch. It only feeds the coil and the stop light switch.Tinindian, thank you again.I took the starter off and reset the pinion gear, then the starter worked. But we are still having trouble getting it to run. It doesn't even kick over or even cough. We replaced the coil because there wasn't any spark and when we tried again we had spark but it was red/orange. I know spark is supposed to be bluish/white, could the condenser be at fault? Also, would the engine run at all with the weak spark?Thanks again. Vintagecarguy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Your point gap could be out, or there could be corrosion in some/any/all contacts in the dist cap. A bit of emery paper or an ink eraser is good for cleaning out the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintagecarguy Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Your point gap could be out, or there could be corrosion in some/any/all contacts in the dist cap. A bit of emery paper or an ink eraser is good for cleaning out the cap.Tinindian, thank you for the reply.We did take a look under the distributor cap, but everything either look clean or maybe even new. The point gap was .022 and the spark plugs were .025 and brand new. The only other things I can think of are, timing, and/or Carburetor not getting enough fuel into the engine. Occasionally, the carb would drip fuel.Thank you again for your help. Gerald Ambrose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Because the car hasn't run for awhile, you **could** have some corrosion on the ignition points' contact surfaces. Spray a little NON-flammable cleaner (e.g., brake cleaner or electric circuit cleaner while the points are open,, then bump it around to where the points are closed. Then insert an uncoated business card between the points under spring pressure and draw the card thru to provide further cleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintagecarguy Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Because the car hasn't run for awhile, you **could** have some corrosion on the ignition points' contact surfaces. Spray a little NON-flammable cleaner (e.g., brake cleaner or electric circuit cleaner while the points are open,, then bump it around to where the points are closed. Then insert an uncoated business card between the points under spring pressure and draw the card thru to provide further cleaning.Grimy,Thank you for the advice. When I work on the car next I will give this a try.Thank you. Vintagecarguy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintagecarguy Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Hello everyone,So after replacing the condenser today the engine ran and ran very well... for a minute or so. We had been using a funnel with a length of hose to get fuel to the fuel pump, so we changed over to using a gas can and thats when the engine ran badly. When it was running the exhaust looked grey, it wouldn't idle, and when I took the plugs out they were black except for cylinders two and five which had some black but were a little damp with fuel. Because it was running well before we had it running off of the can, I'm trying to tell if it is an issue of spark or with the carburetor? I would assume it is the carburetor but I want to be sure before I send it off to be rebuilt.Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. Vintagecarguy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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