chris_58 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Hi everyone, Both, my 1958 Buick and my 1958 Buick came with factory installed A/C. Both systems are still charged with R12 and both units were working ok last year. However even last year, I realized fluid leaking from the shaft seal behind the clutch of each car and a loss of performance (not as cold as usually). The fluid is then slung by the pulleys onto the underside of the hood, leaving an oily film. I am not an A/C specialist, but I understand that the system not only contains the freon but also a special oil to keep the compressor parts lubricated. Is this what I see under the hood? I assume that the front seal hardened over time as I don't like to use the A/C unless I absolutely have to (I prefer to drive with windows open). As to be expected, I also now see bubbles in the sight glass at the dryer - an indication that the system is low on fluid. Both cars are original and I do not want to change the systems to R134 (or whatever is allowed and used now) as I will need different plugs and fittings. I also heard from many people I spoke with that the newer stuff is not as cold as the old R12 and will leak on the old systems due to the smaller molecuar size of the newer agent. A complete component swap is supposedly requiredNow, I have a couple of old R12 cans here and could have the systems refilled again (by an official A/C expert), but with the oil leak at the seal I fear that I will lose the charge within a short period of time again. Here are my questions:Is there a special oil that can be added to R12 that can soften the seal and make it swell slightly (similar to the transmission products)? I saw some products that promise this for the R134 systems, but I am not sure if they would work with R12 as well?Can the R12 from my cars be "harvested" and re-used after I fixed the compressors (plus some fresh one added)?Are there repair kits available to repair the front seal of those compressors? I bought a NOS kit many years ago, but I only have one and need two.How difficult is the repair? My shop manuals both mention a special tool to remove the compressor clutch.Any input is appreciated. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I think some shops do have freon recovery machines. I think my local shop used one when I had tried resurrect the A/C system in the 84 Mercedes I once owned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 hi, the fluid you see flung under the hood is compressor oil, freon R-12 or R-134A will evaporate and disappear once it leaks out. you state that both 58's a/c systems are original, telling me that both have it's original A5 frigidaire compressor, these compressors are rebuildable at classic auto air in florida. they have a website. i would not trust any sealant type additive to cure your freon leak. classic auto air will make sure that a compressor they send back to you, will be just like new, and work like a new one. tearing down and re-assembling a A5 compressor requires a certain level of knowledge, skill, and special tools. i'm not doubting your ability, but even i will send out my 1955 pontiac A5 compressor to classic auto air if it doesn't work properly. charles l. coker1953 pontiac tech advisortech advisor coordinatorpociold GM a/c nut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rp1967 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I can't tell you for sure but I suspect that your compressors will have a mechanical seal and not a lip type seal like later compressors used in the 80s and later.They are carbon or ceramic and nothing will soften them.I know the 6 cylinder compressors of the 60s and 70s were mechanical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 We did a show restoration on a '59 Cadillac Convertible. Owner wanted everything to work including the a/c. We worked with Classic Auto Air in Florida and highly recommend them. We were told that these systems were marginal at best and R12 was necessary to make them work as original. Quite an expensive deal to restore/rebuild the condensor, compressor, dryer etc. but the system now works as original. R12 is still available. It cost $360 just for the R12 to recharge the Caddy. Classic Auto Air did the rebuilding and a local a/c place recharged the system. When a slight glitch came up Classic even spent time on the phone with our local a/c guy talking him thru the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_58 Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Thanks for the feedback. I contacted Classic Auto Air with a request for a quote. I will make sure that I sit down before I open it... :o Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_58 Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Well, I sat down before I opened the answer to my quote request, which was a good thing. I think I will keep driving with the windows open.... I figure as long as I don't turn the A/C on, I should not hurt the compressors even if they are low on fluid. So to have the compressors repaired and given the amount "Restorer32" mentioned for the R12 refill, I would have to invest close to $1,600 plus shipping. Maybe I should get some scratch-off tickets... Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rp1967 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Sometimes a shaft seal is a minor leak , maybe you have leak that is harder to see .Might be worth it to have the system recharged with dye to find out.Old A/C hoses can leak righ through the deteriorating rubber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 FWIW, never go 134a. For one it will leak for sure due to the smaller molecule plus if any R12 oil is left in the system it will react with the oil needed to use 134a and ruin the compressor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Using R134A in R-12 systems prior to about 1990 (depending on manufacturer) the R-134A will migrate through the rubber hoses because of the smaller molecular structure as noted in previous posts. Newer vehicles have what is called barrier hoses that will not allow the migration. If you look around locally you might be able to find a repair shop that still has a refrigerant and recovery machine that will capture and reuse R-12. Most places have the R134A machines and they are not interchangeable. R-12 machine for R12 and R134A machine for R134A. Many shops discarded the R-12 machines because R-12 has not been used in new cars for almost 20 years. Also many OEM manufacturers have update kits to change to R134A refrigerant. To change over to R-134A, you will probably need to change all of the rubber hoses and be sure the system has the R-12 oil drained (does not need to 100%, but closer to 100% is better) evacuate and recharge and add new PAG oil. Edited July 17, 2015 by Larry Schramm (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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