Jim Mead Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) So, I feel as though I've been around antique cars quite some. Some things one doesn't notice until you own a similar vehicle. I never thought I would own a Packard 7 Passenger Touring, but fate interviened. The car is a Single Six. The question is- Are you supposed to be able to actually lower the top as there are no top bow supports and no sign there ever were any. That has gotten me to pay attention to big and Classic car photos of a certain vintage and it seems that many touring cars from the 20's and 30's were not equiped with a way to support the top bows in repose save having the top structure lay on the spare tire or just droop over the back. That can't be right can it? What am I missing here? Edited June 20, 2015 by Jim Mead (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMc Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Jim, The top does fold down and in fact its the best way to drive the car although the rear seat passengers may not agree.There are support clamps on the rear corners of the car. They open to receive the arms and they are removable. The top on yours may be covering the holes where they fit. The clamps should have rubber inserts to protect the paint on the arms, the inserts are available from Steele.Photos attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Mead Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 David, Your photos were great. Now I get it. Having never owned an expensive "modern" touring car, I didn't realize the bow supports were "easily" removable. On my car, the top material did not have a grommet installed, nor were the supports under the seat. Took my finger and probed the fabric and found the holes beneath. Stands to reason that for aesthetic reasons the better makers would make the supports removable. Also explains why I see photos on the show field of big cars with no supports...... On your Packard, are the support arms indexed or otherwise held upright in some manner? Are they tightened in the socket somehow, or just freely inserted? Any advice on where to look for a pair other than the usual ads and blogs? I think this top was recovered in 1958 or so. I knew the owner then, and he was not much for putting expensive tops down. Plus he might not have had the supports either, thus the covered holes..... The learning never stops......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMc Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Jim, If you look closely at the shaft section that fits into the socket on the car you will see a cut at 45 deg. The short inner piece of the shaft is separate from the main shaft and is attached to the bolt through to the outside so when the nut is tightened it locks/jams the shaft in the hole. The are not indexed just held in by this locking method- it works fine. I doubt you will have much luck finding originals, I mine are not original, I copied them from an original by finding a pair of clamps of the right size from an unknown make (found at Hershey) then making the locking shaft piece to suit the Packard. I leave them off because they look ugly and tend to be in the way when you walk past the car. My car is the Sport body which is a bit different to yours and when the top is down it rests very neatly on the twin rear spares. Your spare tire will probably be a bit lower in relation to the folded top so that may not work. The other solution is to make simple half round rests that you fit only when the top is down. If you use a cover for the folded top the non standard rests will not be seen. The clamping mechanism to hold the bows down is unnecessary. My top has never shown any sign of lifting when the top is down and it has nothing to hold it down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMc Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Jim, Another point to keep in mind is that your 7 passenger body has an extra bow compared to mine so if you plan on making them or finding originals they will need to be larger than mine to accommodate the extra bow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Gentlemen : What year are your Packards , please ? When did they advance to 4 - wheel brakes ? Thanks , - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMc Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 My Packard is a 1922/3 Model 126, Sport tourer, I believe Jim's is a 1922/3 model 133 , 7 passenger tourer. Both of these cars have 2 wheel brakes and the years 1922/3 were the last for 2 wheel brakes on the 6 cylinder Packards. These models produced over the years 1922-3 are more commonly known as First Series Packards. The Second Series six cylinder models introduced in 1924 had 4 wheel brakes. The Eight cylinder Packards introduced in 1924 to replace the 2 wheel braked Twin Six (12 cyl) had 4 wheel brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Mead Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 That's as I understand it as well. Odd thing, though, is that Packard is sort of known for the precision of their "Series" nomenclature. But there seem to be enough differences between our cars and the first year, 1921 I believe, model to have warranted a First / Second series shift after that first year. Running changes were always made, I guess. My car has a brake light, although I haven't seen a wiring diagram or literature reference to that being standard issue until the 4 wheel brake cars came in. I also have a single set of points, and the dual secondary single coil to fire the Fuelizer, for the Packard curious. Does that information help date my car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Mead Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Someone might be interested in the condition of the car. I remember this car as being in the collection of my earliest mentor, Mr. Myron Miller of Candor, NY. I must have been 14 or 15 years old at the time, 1966 or 67. The car is virtually the same now as then. Mr. Miller seems to have had the top recovered and the body painted just that once. Leather interior in intact but worn. I'm having loads of fun enjoying a car that is worlds ahead of the Model A I drove beginning at age 16 to High School. That Model A, however, provided the learning bench that has led to many ownership and mechanical adventures, including appreciating this wonderful Packard I first met so long ago..... For numbers see: http://www.packardsonline.com/packard_display_car.cfm?pk=457 Edited June 21, 2015 by Jim Mead (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMc Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 The First Series Sixes ran from April 20, 1922 until December 27, 1923. Engine numbers ran from 9000 to 35942. A low engine number indicates that the car was probably made in 1922 and a high engine number 1923, apart from that there is no way of knowing a year model. I don't believe Packard published any changes during the model run so there are no clues there. Jim's car is around 19000 so likely 1922, mine is around 14000 so also likely 1922. In any event it is not important in identifying the cars. That's a great story about your car Jim. I acquired mine in very derelict condition in 1976 and spent many years restoring it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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