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I AM GETTING READY TO START THE INTERIOR OF MY 32 163 SEDAN. I HAVE GRAT PATTERNS FROM MY ORIGINAL STUFF BUT IT IS ALL WOOL. I WANT TO GO WITH LEATHER, HAS ANYONE OUT THERE FOUND THE SPECS ON THE PROPER LEATHER?  LIKE GRAIN, THICKNESS, AND CORECT COLOR.  IF NOT IS THERE SOMEONE OUT THERE WITH AN OXFORD SEDAN THAT COULD CUT A SMALL SCRAP FORM UNDER THE SEAT AS A SAMPLE?

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Do you have documentation that leather was an available option for your interior? A bit unusual for a sedan I would think.

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An oxford sedan suffix number was listed for Series 11 thru 1932 16, and 19, so it is legitimate and there is one '32 listed in the Register.

Edited by f147pu (see edit history)

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Thanks for the responses so far. I have already received a sample of leather from a coupe. I need to get it to someone that can ID it. It almost has gray look to it. I think that the proper cleaning products will bring it back as it is a solid sample. If anyone know of an original oxford sedan A picture of the color would be the best help as of now.

I am hopping that when this gets sorted out we can include it in the club info for future reference .

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Thanks for the responses so far. I have already received a sample of leather from a coupe. I need to get it to someone that can ID it. It almost has gray look to it. I think that the proper cleaning products will bring it back as it is a solid sample. If anyone know of an original oxford sedan A picture of the color would be the best help as of now.

I am hopping that when this gets sorted out we can include it in the club info for future reference .

Hi Dick - 

 

Service bulletins from 1931 list the Oxford Sedan as having Gray-Brown leather in cars with color combinations the same as the 5-passenger sedans. 

There is a transcontinent Oxford that specifies Taupe leather.

Overall, there is not enough data to suggest exactly what should be in your car with your color scheme.  What is more important is to choose a leather with the right amount of 'sheen' and weight so that it looks and feels period correct.   This can be very hard to find as we really don't know what it should look like for certain, but we know what it did not look like. Connolly leather or any very soft leather that is super flexible is not going to look or feel 'right'.  

A sample from an original car from a protected spot is going to be a great resource. If you can find something that is close to it, you may not have an exact factory 1932 Oxford, but it will be as close as can be determined.

 

Did you talk to Randy Still in Tennessee? He has a 1932 Oxford, not sure if he has original samples or not. There's also a '31 153 in NY and one in CA. I would expect the 1931 153 would also be a legitimate one to copy.  These are in the Roster...

 

tom

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If you look closely you'll see that the panel is finished off with wire-on trim around the edges, in the same leather as the door.  Once you decide on the leather, have Enfield Restoration make the wire-on out of your leather, the only way it'll match.

 

Very nice door panel, plain, but elegant.....

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I once owned a 1928 S12A oxford sedan and may have some pictures of the interior. I am quite sure the interior was all original. I do not know how close this interior design would be to a later series like yours. Possibly someone out there knows the answer to this question.

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Great response so far. I have the photo from e-bay and the sample from an original Franklin in hand. My next step will be to bring it to a very good interior installer. 

he does some furniture restoration and my be a good resource for the old style leathers.

I will keep everyone posted.

Thanks all.

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Two pictures from Frank Lyon's 1929 135 Oxford Sedan:  the leather's color was a subtle grey-blue, not well represented in the photographs.  Pardon the cluttered rear seat.

 

post-104460-0-49141500-1435787761_thumb.

post-104460-0-92905700-1435787780_thumb.

 

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Thanks for the pic's. The more I get the closer we all get to what is original. keep them coming!

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As someone who does a little trim work on older cars, I'd like to make a couple of comments.

 

When you say you have someone to do the interior who does "some furniture restoration", it raises a red flag.  He may well be very competent, and that's great, but I'll make a couple of comments along those lines.

 

I would strongly suggest not to use foam in your car.  Most furniture uses foam as a base for cushions.  Foam made today has a "life", anywhere from 2 to 20 years, after which it will start degrading.  I've attached a link to a company that sells foam, note the different qualities of foam and the life noted.

 

http://www.foambymail.com/foam-types-for-seats-and-cushions.html

 

At this point someone usually chimes in with "but I've got foam in my 1955 Gogomobile that's original and in excellent condition".  That's true, older foam may last for many years.  I just pulled some original foam out of a 1940 Packard that, while it was quite smelly, retained shape.  The reason it survived so many years is because at one time some additives to foam increased their life considerably.  About 15 years ago, some such additives were outlawed because they were shown to cause cancer.  Without those additives, today's manufactured foam has a life, as a noted, that's measured in short spans.

 

Now, on to leather.  Leather for furniture is different than leather for automotive use.  Remember that furniture today is usually made and sold to have a 5 to 10 year life, then you throw away and buy new.  Thus foam and leather can have a certain "life" and the furniture manufacturers can specify cheaper materials accordingly.  One such newer "innovation" is what is attractively called "bonded leather".  This is leather scraps, ground up and glued back together.  It's an awful thing to have in any application, very cheap and will show wear quickly.

 

Automotive leather must be made to be more UV resistant, and the finish made in such a way that it is rub resistant.  Think about how you sit in a chair, versus how you sit in a car.  You go up and down on a chair, with very little rubbing of leather or fabric.  Getting in or out of a car, you slide across the seat.  Thus the finish of the leather must be able to take this sliding action.  The same is true of fabric, by the way, and one reason you should never buy over the counter material (such as JoAnn Fabrics) to put in a car.  Automotive leather also has to be finished in such a way that it can take more flexing.

 

Just some thoughts on things to be aware of so that you can get a long lasting quality interior in your car.....

Edited by trimacar (see edit history)

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Thanks  for the input your comments are appreciated and well taken. 

I should have said that the guy that did my 29 12 years ago and does many cars also knows leather. 

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A very handsome interior on Frank's 1929 Oxford. Beautifully crafted. It is very un-Franklinlike, however. Oxford's followed the same general patterns as the standard sedans - according to the drawing file and the few Oxford's I have seen.

Interestingly however, there is evidence that the 1929 135's may have had some models built with special interiors in broadcloth similar to Frank's leather design, so one could possibly have ordered a special interior in leather done the same way. It just does not look like a standard Franklin.

Dick - for your 1932, the OXFORD interior trim drawing is #56435 which is included on #56322 (the standard Sedan drawing). The difference for the Oxford, according to the drawing, is that for the Oxford "Leather is used on cushions, backs and sides up to the light line, broadcloth is used on sides above light line". All other interior features are identical - including cushion design (no pleates) stiching, pockets. etc.

No mention of any particular grain is indicated on the drawing, although there is an erased area in the Oxford section that would be fun to be able to read. The drawing does specify where wireon and cord welt is to be used. As David said - use Jon Abrahamson at Enfield - they are the only place I know that will make correct wireon and binding for carpet and welt from your leather.

Also re the padding - I agree - NO FOAM - it cannot be made to look 'right'. Another problem we have today is finding a material to match the cotton padding (coachwadding) which seems to have disappeared only recently. New materials are close - but not the same. Door and side panels look 'funny' if cotton padding is not used - they should not look puffy around stiching.

You're going to have a beautiful car!

tom

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Sure wish I could get posts to format correctly!

Posting has become difficult, editing does not work any longer for me - sorry for the messy format.

t

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For door panels, the thin cotton batting used for quilts works well, I use two layers, and it looks very nice....not overly padded....this is a picture of one of the doors on the 1940 160 Packard convertible sedan I just finished.....the detail ribs are half round rubber, with no padding, and the padding gets installed on either side of the design...

post-76888-0-25607100-1435950951_thumb.j

Edited by trimacar (see edit history)

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The drawing shows the division at the rear quarter and I think the rest is above the window sill bottoms.

tom

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The information is great and we will get this correct!!

I had no idea that this would be as interesting as asking what oil I should use!!!!!!!!

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