Which Class Is Correct?

[Guest]

I just completed restoration on a 1942 Ford GPW (army jeep). I was looking in my older Judging Manual and I'm not sure what class it should be entered in. There seems to be a "hole" in the classes and a '42 Ford with a 4 cylinder engine doesn't fit anywhere.

[Guest]

John<BR>Taking an uneducated guess, I'd think your vehicle would be entered in Class 22b. I expect that our VP of Class Judging can give you a definite answer.<BR>Patt

[ronbarn]

Your Jeep should be in 22b. Technically your 1942 Ford Jeep is a "Truck, cargo 1/4 Ton" in military terminology. AACA includes military vehicles in the commercial category. Your next comment may be that this is not very clear in the classification guide, and you are correct. I will forward this to the Class Judging Committee.

[John M.]

That's what I needed to know. I considered that a jeep is technically a truck but didn't think about it fitting under "commercial". Many Thanks!<BR>John

[Guest]

John ~ I don't think that too many of us think of class 22 in terms of "Commercial Vehicles." We think of it as being the truck class, as in " I will be judging 'Trucks" today." <P>This is not to say that commercial vehicles is the wrong name for the class, since class 22 can include vehicles that are not trucks.<BR>It is just that it has come to be thought of as a truck class with the passage of years since the class was created and named.<P>hvs<p>[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: hvs ]

[John M.]

I was getting confused because of class 20f "production vehicles 1940 thru 45"... which seemed close but excluded Fords. That made me scratch my head. If I had a Willys MB I wouldn't have thought any more about it.<P>I'm curious about how some of the equipment on a military vehicle is judged. Ever present items like the shovel and ax were added when the vehicle was put into service and was not supplied by the vehicle manufacturer. Would these items be considered the same as a dealer added option on a car or would they be considered as original equipment? <P>Thanks,<BR>John

[1937hd45]

This is a somewhat related story. I bought a box of NOS Schrader tire pressure gages a while back. The fellow that had them worked for Schrader durring WWII. Part of the goverment contract was to install a gauge in every vehicle that left for Europe. Since Schrader had its factory in Brooklyn, N.Y. it was real easy to send someone over to the docks and place a gauge in every vehicle.

[ronbarn]

John M., You raise a point that has not (in my opinion) been adequately addressed by the Class Judging Committee. The "factory-dealer-buyer" sequence is reasonably well understood, but what about the "factory-US Army depot-unit assignment" sequence. The items you mentioned were normally added at the depot, yet they were US Army (subtitute Marines, Navy, etc.) approved accessories. So the depot was not really a "dealer" per se.

[1937hd45]

Ron, At what time were the ID numbers stenciled on military vehicles hoods and bumpers? Would a deduction be made if a vehicle showed up without these numbers?

[John M.]

I can't say for certain on other vehicles but on jeeps the "hood" numbers along with U.S.A. above the numbers were the only markings applied at the factory. Some canvas items had part numbers and other information stenciled on. The national insignas (stars),unit identification markings, tactical symbols or informational markings were all added later.<P>This all goes along with my question on how a military vehicle should be presented for judging. While not factory, the vehicle wasn't released for use until all the required markings and equipment were added.<P>I'm planning on taking this jeep to our local AACA judged show in a few weeks. It'll be interesting to see the results.<P>Thanks,<BR>John

[John M.]

I suppose a parallel to the unit applied markings on a military vehicle would be the name of a city on a fire engine or the name of a business on the door of a delivery truck. <P>Maybe the equipment on a fire truck would also be the same situation... not always supplied by the factory but required for the truck to complete it's assignment.<P>John

[Peter J.Heizmann]

If it were my vehicle, I would simply make certain that whatever equipment/accessories I mounted, that, they be in good condition and "to the period" items.<P>As for modifications, I responded many moons ago that when I attended the University of Saigon, many modifications were made. Saw a Deuce and a half with steel plating added to the bed vertically. Steel, of course, is a better resistance to enemy fire than canvas.<BR>The Huey pilots would added rockets to the sleds, or, they would not, depending on the operation at hand. Saw a paranoid MSGT smashing the headlights & tail lights on 4 vehicles so the drivers would not accidentally turn them on during one night mission.<BR>60 or 50 calibre machine guns mounted on vehicles was an option.<P>Lettering: At Ft. Hood, Texas, vehicles arrived at the motor pool with the stars painted on, however, the Battalion, HQ, or, whatever unit designation were not painted on until they went to whatever unit.<P>Again, just keep the items to the time period. Remember: The more accessories, the more items to be judged.<P>Regards, Peter J. <P> <p>[ 08-11-2002: Message edited by: Peter J Heizmann ]

[Peter J.Heizmann]

John. <P>Do not know if you subscribe to "Old Cars" Weekly, however, the 8/15/02 issue I received today has a large blurb about the "Iola Military Show".<P>They cover military vehicles and the fire power equipment.<P>All sorts of ads for military tires, vehicles, guns, supplies, tanks, "ducks", and, reenactments.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.oldcarsweekly.com" TARGET=_blank>www.oldcarsweekly.com</A> <P>Hope it helps, Peter J.

[ronbarn]

Unit/assignment designations on the bumpers were stenciled by the using unit (owner) motor pool. This would be considered the equivalent of a license plate which of course was never provided by the factory or dealer, but is accepted by the AACA judges. As noted above, many mods were made at the company motor pool depending often on the whims and ego of the CO. For example, all of my jeeps in Vietnam had the infamous wire catchers on the front bumper - not a factory accessory or even a Army approved mod, but they were there and we never lost an inspection point. However, I think they would cause a judging deduction.<P>Some time ago I picked up several binders of official Ordnance Corps photos. Ran into a man restoring a jeep with a special machine gun mount that was of questionable authenticity. Going through the photos we found a picture of that mounting configuration. Needless to say he was thrilled since he now had "official" documentation of authenticity. It all goes back to documentation.

[John M.]

I think the field modifications are really what bring a jeep or any military vehicle to life. It's really rare to see a period photo of one that is true factory-stock. They really look a little odd when you see one restored that way. A little different mindset from the other car I've shown.<P>As Peter suggested, the things I've added are period and restored like new. My thinking is that if they look "right" and don't overwhelm the jeep itself, they will probably be ok for judging. <P>The Iola Military Show is a couple of hours from here and is worth the trip. There's a swap meet with parts and lots of military gear and quite a few vehicles to look at. Not only military but also a large number of antique tractors. <P>John

[Guest]

Antique tractors --- Ahhhh, the next new AACA judging class.