Grand National Awards

[Guest]

It says that if you you have your First Junior Award and your car changes names that it keeps it but it doesn't keep a Senior award. If you have a Grand National Junior and the car changes names, what happens???

[DaveBerg]

The Grand National Award would also need to be returned to the VP Senior Car Awards (me).<BR>The vehicle then reverts to First Junior winner status. The new owner will need to compete for awards beyond that point in his or her own name.

[Guest]

But why would they do that? I know of a person that him and his father in-law restored the car together. The car won its Junior, Senior and Grand National award. His father in-law passed away and left the car to him and now he has to start over. It just doesn't sound right to me.

[DaveBerg]

I cannot answer the question of: why? The rules for transfer of awards were created well prior to my becoming involved in the system. The rules as I understand them were designed to apply to the sale of a vehicle. In the scenario that you present, perhaps there are alternatives. I do not honestly, know. However, if the recipient of the vehicle chooses to contact me I will gladly research the possibilities, if any, for him. On the other hand, having spoken to many vehicle owners over the years who have purchased prior Senior winner and above vehicles (myself included) I have found they have greatly enjoyed seeing these vehicles compete again for these high awards. At any rate I will be happy to help if i can. As to what does or doesnt seem fair: I can only leave that decision to each individual and how we view things.

[Chris Paulsen]

This borders on a conversation I have had many times, with many people. Having to turn in the previously won awards makes it seem like you are awarding a Junior and/or Senior to the person (owner), not the car. Just because a car is sold doesn't mean it is suddenly in worse condition (in most cases). I would think an award should be given based on the merits of the auto, not on who owns or restored it. Can anyone shed some light on this?<BR>Thanks,<BR>Chris

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Hello, Chris. Hope all is well.<P>The way I interpret the issue is basically the mission of the AACA: "Preservation".<P>The way I see the subject is if the awards stay with the vehicle, the next owner may let the car deteriorate (chips, affix non-original equipment, etc.) then still drive it around as an AGNM 1st place winner, or, a (National) Senior winner.<P>The system is placing the new owner in the position of enjoying the challenge of maintaining the vehicle and participate in going for the highest awards they desire.<P>On the other hand, the new owner may opt not to be a member of the AACA, yet drive the car around with award plaques that were not won by the owners skills, efforts, and, so on.<P>Just my opinion.<P>Regards, Peter J.<BR> <p>[ 07-28-2002: Message edited by: Peter J Heizmann ]

[66 Mystery Chevelle]

I think you hit the nail right on the head Peter!<P>I would think that is the exact reasoning behind the issue....I think people are easily mislead into thinking a Car is in Excellent Condition b/c of a title given to it like SENIOR winner...when in fact the car may have been in Excellent condition when that award was won, but now the owner decides to just ENJOY it and drives it, maybe makes some personal modifications to suit his/her taste, and before you know it, the car is a Daily Driver....if that car is sold and new owner gets Grandfathered an Award status, what does that say for anyone who sees this car? "oh heck, AACA considers that a National Winner??"<P>Just my thoughts., as long as they are <P>Mike

[ex98thdrill]

Here's another twist. My father and I have restored several cars. Even though the two of us did the restorations and pooled our resources, does that mean that our cars would lose their status if something happened to him? The vehicle is registered in his name, but can we have the vehicle registered with AACA to where they are co-owned? I have no intentions of turning our cars into daily drivers, but why should I have to prove myself if I did the restorations, went to the shows with the vehicle, and earned the awards? Due to our ownership of multiple vehicles (15+), all of our cars are registered and insured in my father's name to keep the cost down. There are some cars that are solely owned by me, there are some cars solely owned by my father, and there are cars that we both own. Irregardless, every one of our cars were built by the two of us, we're both AACA members, and I don't agree with it either. If I bought someone's car that already had AACA status that would be one thing, but when you have a joint interest in the vehicle, then it should be grandfathered. If one of us died and our spouse chose to continue showing our vehicles, does that mean that the vehicle would still lose all of its status above a junior? <P>This all goes back to AACA rewarding the vehicle and not the owner, but in the event that the owner passes away and leaves the vehicle to a loved one, there should be provisions to allow the status to remain. <BR>FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!

[Guest]

ex ~ I have been away from any responsibility for this issue for many years now, but I agree with the point you are making.<P>There should be [if there isn't now] a provision whereby a car may change ownership among blood relatines without having to surrender awards and return the car to 1st Junior status.<P>I know of one AACA GN winning car still registered in the name of a member who died 20 years ago. The son now owns the car but does not want to give up the awards his father won by transferring the car into his name. Hence, the car is no longer shown.<P>Closer to home, I own a Senior car that won its 1st Jr in 1970 and its Senior in 1971. The title is in my name and my son's. However, it is on the AACA records in my name ONLY, from back when my son was 10 years old and certainly not on the title.<P>When I die it becomes his car as we have joint ownership on the title, but NOT on the AACA record. So to show the car in AACA he will have to start over and re-win the Senior. Fat chance with a 32 year old restoration, which although maintained well enough to win preservation would not score the 375 points or more needed to win a senior.<P>My advice to my son? Take the car, keep the awards, enjoy what you have and forget about AACA Meets and rules. So long as a person feels no need to show a vehicle in AACA competition, they are NOT bound by AACA rules and cannot be compelled to return anything. <P>But as ex98thdrill says, there should be a better way.<P>hvs

[ex98thdrill]

Thank you Howard. But right there is a classic example of where there may be more people and cars participating in AACA events but they don't because of this rule. I wouldn't expect to buy one of your cars and keep the status with the vehicle, but when I performed the restoration right along with my father, then the issue of who's name is on the entry blank shouldn't matter. I did the work, and spent some of my money on our cars too, but because the vehicle is registered in my father's name I have to go back to square 1? That isn't right. It seems kind of ironic that everyone wants to "keep AACA alive" yet when a member dies, the status of their vehicle gets buried with them. If that kind of mentality continues to exist, then how can you expect to keep AACA alive?

[Guest Roadmaster]

My take is the same I take in business. Sometimes change is good, just because it has always been done "this way" doesn't mean there is not room for improvement. I hope the people in power understand this and at least consider that ex98thdrill has a point and maybe the club needs to make adjustments to policy on individual basis once in a while. It makes one feel that the right thing has weight sometimes and not just the rules. Thanks for letting me blow my windbag. The idea is we want more cars shown not less.

[Guest]

I believe this problem could be corrected fairly easily. When the owner (title in his/her name) registers the auto for an AACA event if they could be allowed to add additional person/persons to share award. Then AACA records will have all the information required to preserve the awards for all the correct people, therefore avoiding any conflict later. Just a thought...

[ex98thdrill]

I can live with that, but is it legal according to the rulebook? My father has our '37 Plymouth pickup registered for the show next week in Purchase, New York, and he is going for his senior award. Can my name be added to the registration even though the registration period has passed? <P>If that is too late, and we manage to get the senior, can we go to the Grand National meet next year and do it then? These are just questions. My concern is that if something happens to my father, I've got to go back to square one and do it again, even though this restoration was a conbined effort of BOTH of us in time, and money. On the other side of the coin, I am in a combat zone in a country ending in s-t-a-n, if my father registers the truck in my name and I don't make it back, he's goes back to square one again. If we both did this restoration then we both deserve the credit that we've earned. <P>I'm not trying to issue a complaint rather than enlighten on a subject that every single one of us are going to have to face someday. Some thought needs to go into this, and of course we need to think things through. What do we do??

[ronbarn]

Rule are made to accomodate normal situations and make a transition of ownership orderly. Roadmaster had a very good idea. Some changes of ownership like the one being discussed here may need to be handled a little differently. Simply send a letter to the VP Class Judging and give the details and request an exception. Do it simply, logically, and be nice - don't complain about the rule, just request an exemption.

[ex98thdrill]

Exemptions? I never thought you could fight city hall. I was led to believe those were the rules and that was the way that it was going to be.

[Guest]

About the transfer of a Senior status upon selling a car. What about this situation My father and I own two mustangs one a grand national 1st and one a junior.I have personally restored both vehicles but they are in my fathers name for insurance reasons. Now he dies and now the cars are left to me but because I have to register them in my name they suddenly are not worthy of a senior or higher. This is not right. The car should keep it's status then at the next show if the car is in disrepair that would be the current owners fault of not keeping the car up to AACA standards.