Judging criteria for radial tires

[Guest]

I have heard of a supposed rule change in the judging of cars at AACA events regarding radial tires. Is it true that for safety reasons, show cars that choose to use correct spec radial tires in place of bias ply tires will not earn point deductions? I have a 67 Cutlass with radials... the judges at Hershey asked if they were an available option for my car, which they aren't, and I lost 15 points, enough to drop me to third place. Shortly after, I met a gentleman with a 62 Eldorado with it's senior tag, and he showed the car with radials. He says that they are allowed under AACA rules, but not all the judges know this. Can anyone confirm this?

[Guest John W. Harvey]

Unregistered User Paul,<P>I am by no means the official word on this issue. I can however, tell you about my recent exposure to this same question/concern. <P>I own a 74 Monte Carlo. It came equipped with GR70-15 radials. These were/are the correct tires for this vehicle. However, the GR70-15 tires are not available by any manufacturer.....not even reproductions. I have P225/70R-15 radials on my car with the white wall being as close to original size as possible.<P>After winning the 1st Junior award, I became concerned because I wanted to show the car at the Senior level and beyond.<P>I contacted several reproduction tire manufacturers and was fortunate enough to secure documentation from them stating the the GR70-15 tires do not exist and are not in production.<P>I then contacted the AACA VP of Class Judging to get a clarification on this issue. The VP returned the phone call to my home and we discussed the tires, judging, and documentation. He stated that I had the proper documentation and that it should be made available at the meets that I show the car. I was also told that it was now an issue for the cars produced in the early and mid 70's. I was also told that the issue was going to be addressed at the judging schools etc.<P>I went to judging school in Johnstown last Spring (2001). The issue was discussed as mentioned above. However, there we no provisions made for safety of older vehicles. All vehicles are to show with the correct tires and markings for the year of the car.<P>My car has been fortunate enough to go on to win the Senior award and then the Grand National 1st. One judge did question the tires at the AGNM. The documentation that was on display was accepted and no deductions were made.<P>As for the gentleman with the "62 Eldorado with it's senior tag"....who knows??? I believe it is possible to win the Senior award even with the maximum point deductions (3 points for each tire and spare) on tires...as long as there were little or no other deductions on the remainder of the car. Owner needed at least 375 points and had to be within 10 points of the highest scoring car.......He may have been all alone at that meet????<P>The following was copied from the Chassis section of the AACA Judging manual located on the AACA web site:<P>8. Prior to 1915, tires must be matched in pairs (front and rear), but spares need not match anything on the vehicle except each other. (if there's more than one size spare, they will naturally differ.)<P>9. The following items are accepted for judging without penalty under the "Grandfather Clause", due to their initial acceptance in the beginning of the judging program.<P>Whitewall tires. Must be proper size designation and proper style. <BR>1941 Last use of double whitewall tires. <P>10. Tires on all vehicles must be as specified by manufacturer.<P>11. The following identifies the first year of tire sizing for the various designations. It is advisable to seek documentation from the vehicle owner when a tire size is in question. This is especially so in cases of limited production, specialty vehicles, and foreign made vehicles.<P>Letter SizeTires, ie G78-15, GR78-14, etc 1967 <P>Metric Size Radials, ie 185R14, 175R13, etc. Domestic Cars 1972 (Note: European built vehicles can be much earlier, seek documentation) (Japanese vehicles 1967, possibly earlier seek documentation). <BR>Low Profile Metric Radials, ie 195/70R13, 195/70VR14 Domestic Cars 1975. European Cars 1969*. Japanese Cars 1975* <P>*Also refer to above note when judging foreign made vehicles<P>12. Valve stems must be metal prior to 1930 and must be the same as originally supplied on the vehicle. Documentation may be required. Fords will have metal valve stems through 1934. Rubber valve stems may be used on any vehicle, prior to 1935, that was originally equipped with metal stems, if completely covered with authentic valve cover, atop a retainer nut fastened to the rim. In all cases, it must appear as original equipment.<P>13. Plastic valve caps will receive a one point each deduction if used on any vehicle prior to 1951. "Red Crown" valve caps are not accepted on any vehicle. Red plastic valve caps (not "Red Crown") will be accepted on Whizzer motorbikes.<P>14. Wheel weights will be considered a safety item; therefore there will be no deduction for wheel weights if installed in a workmanlike manner. They may be painted.<P>To the more experienced members of this forum and the judging ranks....if I am wrong.....please accept my apology!<P>Hope this helps,<P>John

[Al Smeraldo]

My experience in this regard is that there are always exceptions to any rule. My 1967 Ford Galaxie could have been ordered with metric radials as shown in the owners and service manuals. I have gotten a first junior with this car at Hershey. The key is to have the documentation with the car. I usually am judging in another class so I leave the documentation in the trunk and I put a note to the judges on the judging sheet. Al

[DaveBerg]

The rule on tires is that they be of a size and type as specified by the manufacturer. If radial tires were not offered for your vehicle either as standard equipment or as an option then you will lose 3 points per tire. The car you mentioned that had won its senior award offers a couple of thoughts. It is possbible that the tires were replaced after the vehicle won the Senior award. It is also possible that the vehicle scored high enough to win the award in spite of the 15 point deduction. Remember a vehicle need only score 375 points and be within 10 points of the highest scoring car in that class also competing for Senior.

[Guest]

What Dave said about a later installation of radials makes a lot of sense. Often an owner will win the First Junior or Senior award and then turn the car into a driver by installing radial tires. Been there and done that.<P>You do not give up any prior awards by changing the vehicle after the awards are won.<P>hvs<P>PS: But it sure can cause confusion later on. <p>[ 06-08-2002: Message edited by: hvs ]