When does a car become a SENIOR

[Guest]

I had a friend ask a question about a Senior car and I want some clarification on it. When does it officially become a Senior car? I said after it wins it's First Junior that it is a Sneior car and can be shown as a Senior Car in the local club shows. My friend says that he believes it can't be shown as a Senior Car until it gets it's Senior tab. <P>Isn't the car a Senior car when it wins it's First Junior (and can be shown as a Senior at local shows - where there is a AACA Senior Car class) AND becomes a Senior WINNER when it gets it's Senior tab?<P>Thanks<P>Joe

[Guest BruceW]

The following excerpts is from the AACA judging manual included in this website at <A HREF="http://www.aaca.org/judging/Section4.htm#C." TARGET=_blank>http://www.aaca.org/judging/Section4.htm#C.</A> SENIOR CATEGORY:<P>There are three categories of competition in the AACA award system. Vehicles are judged in the JUNIOR category at AACA National Meets until they win the FIRST JUNIOR award. <P>Vehicles that have won the FIRST JUNIOR award are then known as SENIOR vehicles <P>and will compete in the SENIOR category with other SENIOR vehicles. When the SENIOR award is won, the vehicle will compete in the<BR> PRESERVATION category with other PRESERVATION vehicles.<p>[ 05-30-2002: Message edited by: BruceW ]

[66 Mystery Chevelle]

I can see the confusion though.... it would seem to make more sense to say that you have a National Junior Car after you win your first Junior. and that you ONLY have a SENIOR car AFTER you WIN that Award. Afterall, just because you have won your Junior award and will now be JUDGED with Senior cars, doesn't mean you will win that Senior award...I think it would be more appropriate to say you have a SENIOR CAR only after your First Junior Winner has entered and WON it's Senior Award. I will however stand by the Manual Guidelines....Just my 2 pennies!! <P>Of course I may be misreading all of the above guidelines, that wouldn't surprise me at all <P>Mike

[Guest]

Perhaps this will explain the junior/senior question to those who just dont seem to understand it.<P>You have just entered the 11th grade in high school. You are now a junior. For the next 9 months you will participate in the school year by learning the subjects [restoration of the car] and taking the tests and exams [having the vehicle judged]. Do well and at the end of the school year [or in the case of a car, upon winning the 1st Jr] you will become a senior. But until you pass the required tests [winning the 1st Jr] you are a junior.<P>Then the next year in high school you enter the 12th grade and are a senior. In cars this happens as soon as you win the 1st Jr. You are a senior on the 1st day of class, not on the day you get the diploma at the end of the year [or the senior award in the case of a car]. If you never graduate you will still always be a senior so long as you chose to go to school. Same for the vehicle, it is in the senior class until it graduates [wins the senior]. It then competes only for preservation awards at national meets or goes on to college [the grand national] where it is only in classes with other graduates.<P>js

[66 Mystery Chevelle]

Well, FWIW....I personally do understand it, but maybe the H.S. analogy will help others., I just don't agree with the concept. I think that saying you have a SENIOR car prior to winning the senior award, gives a false impression that the award has already been won and thus giving the impression that the quality of your car is better than a Junior level car. I have had to explain this to others many times.... "No I have not won my senior award yet, I am just in the senior class" I have actually used the HS analogy already...it does help.<P>I won my first Junior last fall, and have never considered my car a SENIOR....I think that status goes with the AWARD.<P>Just one man's opinion is all.<P>Good question though

[66 Mystery Chevelle]

if you are showing your car in the junior class and have not won a junior award, what do you call your "level"? Using your argument, it would not be a junior. Are you a "nothing"? <P>YES, You are nothing. In my book. <P>It's like trying out for the team....maybe the coach picks ya, maybe he don't. If he does...you are second string and maybe, if you do well, you get moved up to first string next year. If he doesn't pick ya, ie, you don't win....you were just another guy trying out...you don't go home saying "I'm on the team."<P>This isn't school, the analogy is cute, but this isn't school...When I enter my car in any show, I have just a car on the showfield...It's not a First Place, a second place, a third, Honorable mention., Nothing....it gets a status only when it wins an award in the class it is entered in. So, if in fact my car is a JUNIOR when it sits on the showfield, just for being there...that sounds more like the folks who want to PASS all the kids, and not leave anyone behind. "hey look at me...I am Junior!!" "and I didn't have to do anything to get that status!"<P>If you enter Medical School....are you already a DOCTOR? Just because you are there?<P>Oh and lest anyone get their shorts in a bind...I am just havin some good old Back of the garage car talk, bench racing gearhead stuff....FUN,,,,not looking to make any enemies or start any feuds...just a point of view...MINE. Nobody has to agree with it. <P>Mike<p>[ 06-01-2002: Message edited by: 66 Mystery Chevelle ]

[Guest]

OK, I can see your point, but here is a point regarding your argument: if you are showing your car in the junior class and have not won a junior award, what do you call your "level"? Using your argument, it would not be a junior. Are you a "nothing"?

[Guest]

Brian. Whose arguement are you questioning, mine or 66 MC. If it is mine then here is my clarification. The day you enter the classroom in the 11th grade, you are a junior. Until you meet the requirements for advancing to the next grade you remain a junior. You can be a junior forever if you want to keep trying to get into the 12th grade. Same for cars. You stay a junior until you get passed to the next "grade" by winning the 1st Jr. You can win a hundred 2nds & 3rds and the car will still remain a junior<P>It has been this way in AACA for over 40 years. Why the sudden confusion? Perhaps some want to make the awards system like the school system of today where nobody gets left back. Just show up and you will be passed on up the line. <P>js

[Guest]

Have it your way Mike. May I respectfully suggest that if wou want to change the AACA awards procedure that you take your case to the AACA Judging Committee or the AACA Board of Directors. This DF is not the place to accomplish anything in that area. Do not overrate the power of the DF as it represents only a small portion of the AACA membership.<P>jr

[66 Mystery Chevelle]

You just don't get it <B>Unregistered User</B> do you?? How else can I say it.... I WAS JUST <B>EXPRESSING MY OPINION!!</B> <P>...not looking to change anything, could really care less....why can't you just leave it at that...I can't see anywhere in my posts that I even hinted to wanting the rules changed or of using this board to accomplish such a silly little thing as this...give me a break. There's lots of things in this world I don't like., laws, rules, instant replays, the blue dress my secretary wears every now and then...but I can disagree or not like something or somebody and still play by rules...nothing is perfect. I guess I thought a discussion board/forum was to discuss things??<P><BR>I'll check back in a month or so and see how many new topics get discussed in that time and who knows, maybe you will even take the time to Register to this small but great aspect of AACA membership.....geesh!

[Guest]

<B>AND I WAS EXPRESSING MINE!</B>. Sorry if it conflicted with yours, but then isn't that what discussion is often about? Different opinions expressed by different people. Sheeesh!<P>js

[Guest]

He's Baacck! Unregistered but still hot 'n spicey. By the way, I really enjoyed high school in my junior and senior years. That's when I started reading the "performance" and "how to" books that later shaped my intern stint in Washington, DC. If you know what I mean?

[Guest]

Monica, I don't know who you mean is back but I have never been here before. <P>Should I not be here unless I register? <P>js

[Guest]

Honey -<BR>Have it your way! None of us know who you are - right? By the way, I always register under an assumed name if I can't be incognito. Those damned paparazzi are constantly on my tail! You know what I mean.

[Guest]

I'll bet Jr/Sr is Howard incognito. Hmmmm?

[Guest]

Sorry guys, not me. <P>hvs

[ply33]

I was hoping to see a post from hvs sometime. Thanks for getting back into this forum!

[Guest]

Well hvs, I've been known to be wrong before. This DF has become sterile and way too PC since you disappeared.<P>But since you dropped in on us, why don't you show us your staying power. It's well known that's what I like. Hell, I might even get an antique of my own. And maybe he'll have some old cars too.

[Guest]

Monica, If you want an antique, how about an antique organ? <P>hvs

[Guest]

Honey -<BR>Are you offering? From reading all your past posts, I would guess that you have one. Just be aware that I'm not looking for a restoration project or one that's been hot rodded. In my opinion, the best ones have been always garaged and have low mileage. Original mechanicals and documented regular maintenance are usually a plus.