Jay Wolf Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 I had a question about entering a Flat Track motorcycle in racing class.<P>The bike is a late 60's it came from Norway from a dealer. The bike is race only racing frame, no brakes, never intended for the street, it shows wear so it was used.<P>BUT (the big but)<BR>I have no race history or anyway to prove it has raced, other than it is obvious<BR>it would have no other purpose.<P>Can this be shown in AACA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 As I understand the rules for class 24A you most prove to the Certification commettee that your car or bike did race. If you can't prove it was raced it goes in the production class that fits the vehicle. I have a Lyndwood rail that will be restored to its 1962 appearance. I did all the Certification work and got my Tab before the restoration was started. <BR> If you wonder why AACA goes through this trouble it is to protect the original vehicles. It is very easy to remove fenders and road equipment from a motorcycle and claim it is so in so's bike. What happens when the real one turns up? This has happened with some race cars, yes, law suits have been lost and won over this. When you look at class 24A at any AACA meet you know you are looking at the real deal. This is not the same in other classes.<BR> Start backtracking the former owners, get as many photos as you can of this bike. You must have a photo of the car to be Certified. Good luck!<p>[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: 1937hd45 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest elgin16 Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 I don't think it can compete in normal class, as, I do not think it was a mass-produced vehicle, it has racing Jawa engine, but no other markings on the frame or anywhere?<BR> <p>[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: elgin16 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 Jay, Nice looking bike, I'm sure it is a race bike. You just have to prove who raced it and where to show it in class 24A. It is the same deal with an OFFY midget. They all look the same, and you know they are race cars, but who drove it is anyones guess. You'll have to ask the fellow you bought it from where he got it, and follow the trail back. Just be glad you're not tracking a 1915 era race bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronbarn Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 1937, you are correct on the procedure but a little out of date on the class. Documented competition motorcycles are shown in Class 24c. This includes all type of courses for those vehicles. The race vehicle certification committee would have to provide the certification number and tab before it can be entered in an AACA meet. To start the documentation process contact the AACA VP Class Judging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Wolf Posted January 11, 2002 Author Share Posted January 11, 2002 Is he correct in "No documentation, No AACA showing"?<BR>I was planning on restoring it, but if that is the case, it sound like it would be a waste of money. <BR> So in AACA you can only show a “Specific” race vehicle? <BR>Not just a vehicle built and used for racing?<BR>Not even knowing the # or anything, being from out of the country, finding any information on it would next to impossible.<BR>It has been though a couple of owners in the US, I am not even sure I could find the Dealer who imported it.<BR> I don’t think sending letters Norway Racing organizations ask about a <BR>"Metalflake Blue Jawa" that ran flat track in the late 60 early 70’s would be very fruitful.<P>Could it enter in regular classification or would it be considered a homemade or a Modified Jawa Stock Bike and not egible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 Jay, Don't give up so quickly on finding documention on the bike. That is one of the best parts of restoring a race vehicle. If you restore it and show it the first question anyone wants to ask is who drove it? Start asking for race track info in Norway or where ever it raced. Bikes are very popular in Europe, look around on the web. Take lots of photos of details on the bike before you take it apart.<p>[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: 1937hd45 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Binger Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 Elgin 16,<P>When you are researching this bike you might want to keep the name ESO in mind. JAWA/CZ company sold these bikes in the early 60's as ESO as well as JAWA and psoabily CZ.<P>What you have there apears to be a ECO DT5 Speedway Bike. It is 500cc 50HP which was designed to run on methylalcohol. <P>There were a lot of these raced in California up until just a few years<P>Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronbarn Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 Each vehicle shown in the race vehicle classes must be documented as having been raced earlier than 25 years ago. The documentation must be reviewed by the Certification Committee and if they are convinced that this specific vehicle was raced they can issue a certification plaque. The owner must present the certification plaque and the documentation each time it is shown and the vehicle must be restored to the configuration at the time it was raced.<P>This leads to some interesting situations. For example, if an Indy can ran multiple years, say 1963 and 1964 with changes in colors, numbers, etc. and it was certified based on the 1963 documentation, it must show the 1963 colors, numbers, etc. Another example, let's say that in 1955 somebody modified a '20s vintage sports car to make competitive for hill climbs and the car is documented as racing in 1955. The car must be restored to it's racing configuration, not to it's "as it left the factory" configuration.<P>There have been cases of factory race prepared motorcycles being shown in the regular motorcycle class since there was no documentation that it was raced. The operative words here is not that it was obviously built for racing, but "factory race prepared".<p>[ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: ronbarn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 I'll add to ronbarns above examples. Bugatti made several types of Grand Prix race cars in the 1920's & 30's. Once you see one you know it is a race car. They made hundereds of them some did race some were bought and registered as road cars. To show in 24a you have to prove that the Bug you are showing was raced, if not it goes in the production class that it fits. I know of one Bug that could be traced back to a Vintage race in I believe 1957. It was certified as a 1957 Bugatti. The stock cars that were built from Fords from the 1930's are shown as "year raced" vehicles. It may sound strange at first, but it does make sence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Wolf Posted January 12, 2002 Author Share Posted January 12, 2002 I guess my question still is?<BR>Can it be shown?<P>Can it be shown in production class,<BR>Who could tell me?<BR>You can see the picture above it is not a street bike.<P>I did notice in the "2001 NADA Consumer Antique, Classic and special interest Motorcycle Appraisal Guide"<BR>in the back under "Low production and insufficient data motorcycles"<P><BR>It list two different Jawa "Speedway racer"<BR>bikes so maybe it was a production "speedway racer" bike?<BR>How would I go about finding out.<P>One reason I and harping on this I have not bought the bike yet and I do not want to unless I can show it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 Jay, That is one smart move on your part!!! What I have been saying is directed al all "race vehicles". People have been known to buy cars & bikes that are not what they were reported to be.The fact that you can prove that the vehicle you have IS the race vehicle in question ends the story. I'm sure you can show in AACA production class,but it would look better in 24c (race bikes)If showing it is your reason for buying, check all the details. If it is priced reasonably and you want it, get it. Have you posted these questions on the Antique Motorcycle Club of America website? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronbarn Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 Elgin 16, apparently we are using too many words or you just do not like the statements. I'l try to sum it up:<P>The bike CANNOT be shown in the racing class unless it is certified as having participated in a race 25 or more years ago.<P>It CAN be shown in the production class if you are prepared to prove that it was a manufacturer factory production bike. You will be asked for documentation.<P>If it is a homebuilt bike it CANNOT be shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Wolf Posted January 13, 2002 Author Share Posted January 13, 2002 I under stand that. I just never thought of a race bike as production, BUT<BR>After finding Jawa "Speedway racer"<BR> in the "2001 NADA Consumer Antique, Classic and special interest Motorcycle Appraisal Guide"<BR>I am wondering if it is a production motorcycle, would the NADA guide be proof? <P>on the other front<P>After 3 call`s to Norway , this is what I found out: the bike is and early 70's<BR>not 60's and it was raced in the<BR>70`s, by a guy nick named "Metal Dick" (loosely translated), (real name<BR>unknown) Motor run`s on Methanol.<P>It may seem funny but maybe on the internet<BR>I can find a norway club that has heard of old Metal Dick.<P>My reason for looking for a bike is the lighten my load to AACA shows, it is becoming a chore to tow my 8.5 foot wide 12 foot high and 24 foot long hauler with my HPOF 1916 Elgin in it.<BR> I am starting to dread the trip to and from shows so I want something light and easy to take 200 LB bike on a hitch carrier. Then I can get rid of my 9 MPG 3/4 ton van & trailer and drive my 52 mpg Prius.<BR>Maybe even haul it to a show behind my <BR>BMW R1100RTL<BR> <A HREF="http://beaver.vinu.edu/newelgin.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://beaver.vinu.edu/newelgin.htm</A> <P>Please bear with me, I have done standard classes and HPOF but Race class is new to me.<BR>In the other classes I never had to "Prove" anything to AACA. So not sure what is involved.<P>Would a letter from "metal dick" be Proof?<BR>if he could be found?<BR>Would just a letter fro the Dealer saying "metal dick" raced it in the 70's be enough? That is very possible, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 Documention does'nt happen overnite, you are lucky to get the riders name so quickly. Send a letter to the Vice President of class judging and ask for the Race Vehicle Documention form. This form has all the questions listed that you need to answer. There is a fellow locally who towes two Vintage bikes behind his restored Healey 100, nice setup.<p>[ 01-12-2002: Message edited by: 1937hd45 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Binger Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 Elgin 16<P>The Speedway bikes were production from JAWA.<BR>They must be because they are in the JAWA/CZ catalogs.<P>Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest elgin16 Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 Who do I need to contact to get a "Race Vehicle Documention form"?<P>I sent and email to the judging address listed on the AACA Site on Jan 12th, but I have not gotten any response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Research is not the easiest part of restoring vehicles like this - Ive got a good friend here in our local region who imported an original Ford Thunderbolt race car from Norway a few years ago and had to research it. First couple of times out he actully entered it in a production car class, but eventually acquired the necessary documentation. If you want to e-mail me at home I'll try and put you in touch. He may have some valuable experience to share with you. I look foward to seeing your bike on the showfield.<BR>Terry Bond<BR>(1912 Triumph) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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