Fast and Loud - Another View

[capngrog]

Last night, I watched the latest episode of Fast and Loud and was entertained. This brought to mind a recent thread entitled "Fast and Loud - Please" which was almost entirely negative with respect to "reality" car shows. As with most so-called "reality" shows, I agree that Fast and Loud is all about manufactured drama and usually has little to do with reality; however, they often do some cool modifications that are very different from the usual. I find most of the "reality" car shows to be interesting and can't help wonder if others, perhaps ignorant of the old/classic car hobby, have their interest piqued by these shows. If the hobby can become more well known via TV "reality" shows and incessant super $$$ car auctions, maybe some more folks will become interested in and participate in this fine hobby of ours. Many in our hobby lament the lack of younger folks entering the hobby, and maybe, just maybe, we should view the "reality" car shows as recruiting tools. Most of the "reality" car shows involve modification of older vehicles, and I realize that is not what AACA is all about; however, many folks (me for example) have started the hobby with a modified vehicle and have gone on to the preservation of original older vehicles.

Mayhaps the popularity of "reality" car shows will be good for all aspects of our hobby.

If a show is about cars and the production quality is good, despite the drama, I like it.

Just wonderin',

Grog

[Steve Moskowitz]

I will not opine about the show but if it was the same one I saw in the last 48 hours he was getting ready a "barn find" Vette and he was talking about their need to replace the calipers.............on a drum brake car.

[earl e rizer]

If that's what it takes to get kids into old cars I'm all for it. BUT as most reality shows go there is NO REALITY involved.

What I hear from a few young people is how they want to "flip cars" to get rich. Nothing wrong with trying to get rich, but you still need to work long and hard for the most part.

[Paul Dobbin]

I also watched that episode, while flipping channels. The Corvette was a rare big block, low mileage hulk that needed a 100% restoration. They felt what they did would net the most profit, a National First Restoration was of no interest. I think at times, most of us have flipped a car or two, which I can't find fault with.

The other car they were going to flip was a 1968 Impala Custom Coupe. that car was identical to one I bought in 1972 for $1200 at the OK Used Car Lot of our towns Chevrolet dealer. (Same color, mileage and appointments) I was shocked that they paid $12,500 for it and then customized it hoping for a big profit. Unfortunately I switched channels before they sold it, and didn't learn if they made money.

What struck me was they thought the Barrett-Jackson Auction was a fool proof way to make money. From my vantage point there are a lot of cars gaveled SOLD for way more than anybody else would ever pay, mostly modified personal choice rides.

I still like to see the cars, but fear the impression of the TV shows leave is one of a part of the hobby I don't see in my reality. (Maybe under my rock)

[1937hd45]

I cought that show as well, not into Corvetts, but it looked like a very good buy. The guy who makes the first flip makes the most profit IMO. It will be nice to see what it sells for along with all the other cars they plan to sell at BJ. Bob

[capngrog]

I must have missed the episode with the big block Corvette. The recent episode I saw involved a gold colored C-2 coupe which had a fuel injected small block. I don't recall what year model it was, but 1965 was the first year for disc brakes in the Corvette.

I wish I still had my '64 Coupe,

Grog

[Taylormade]

I'm the guilty party - I started the "Fast And Loud - Please!" thread. I actually do find some interesting things to watch in the "reality" car shows, and even more that I don't care to waste my time on. Thus, my reliable DISH-TV DVR fast forward. I simply record the shows I'm interested in and then fast forward through any of the silly junk they pass off as reality. I find about 20 percent of "Fast and Loud" tolerable. Maybe 80 to 90 percent of "Chasing Classic Cars." Sixty percent of "Graveyard Cars" - they have some interesting bits on Mopar muscle car restoration and I can just flip past the other supposedly funny stuff. Maybe 40 percent of "Misfit Garage." "Desert Car Kings" turned out some of the shoddiest restorations I've ever seen. I particularly remember a blue Studebaker coupe with enough swirl marks in the paint to make one dizzy. Sixty percent of "Bitchin' Rides" especially if your into hot rods. Ninety percent of "Overhauling" - especially the later shows without all the stupid "pranks." The "Junkyard Empire" shows I've seen seem to be a total waste of time. Seventy to eighty percent of "Wheeler Dealers." So, whatever floats your boat - use fast forward/skip to prevent wasting your valuable time.

[Rusty_OToole]

I don't watch those shows but after 50 years of messing with cars have learned a few things.

1) Trying to make money out of old cars is a mug's game. It is a hard way to make money. It took me 20 years to figure out how to do it. Even then, the same time, skill and effort in other pursuits will be safer and more lucrative.

2) Probably the best way to do it is keep your eyes open for below market bargains in cars that need little or nothing. I have a friend, a retired mechanic, who does this. He will only buy cars that are quite nice but not perfect. Then replace incorrect parts with correct parts, shine and polish, tune up the motor and other small jobs. He never buys a car that needs a complete body and paint, or complete motor rebuild or anything like that.

When he is done, or has the car looking nice, he takes it to local cruise nights and events with a For Sale sign in the window. Sometimes if the car does not sell he takes it to Hershey. He always makes money, although not much on a per hour basis he enjoys the old car hobby and has something to do.

3) If you buy a real heap don't waste your time and money. A full restoration will cost way more than you can ever get out of it, and a partial won't make enough difference to the value.

Best plan is to clean it up as best as possible, get it running if you can do so at minimal cost, and sell as is. You can usually make a little this way if you didn't over pay.

4) Keep it as stock as possible. It will be the most salable to the widest public and will cost less to do. Maybe there are some places you can spend a lot of money on custom or hot rod accessories, and increase value more than they cost, but I have never seen it.

5) If you really want to make money, open a shop that specializes in old cars. Work only on a time and materials basis and be ruthless in rejecting customers you can't make money on, which is most of them. Too many people today have no conception of what it takes to fix an old car right. They expect you to take the bread out of your children's mouths so they can have a play toy. And think you should work for about $200 a week while they would not bother to get out of bed for less than $1000.

[Restorer32]

Thumbs up re #5. Heard of a fellow who got out of the restoration business because he felt bad driving customers' half million dollar cars past his starving wife and children.

[capngrog]

I'm the guilty party - I started the "Fast And Loud - Please!" thread. I actually do find some interesting things to watch in the "reality" car shows, and even more that I don't care to waste my time on. Thus, my reliable DISH-TV DVR fast forward. I simply record the shows I'm interested in and then fast forward through any of the silly junk they pass off as reality. I find about 20 percent of "Fast and Loud" tolerable. Maybe 80 to 90 percent of "Chasing Classic Cars." Sixty percent of "Graveyard Cars" - they have some interesting bits on Mopar muscle car restoration and I can just flip past the other supposedly funny stuff. Maybe 40 percent of "Misfit Garage." "Desert Car Kings" turned out some of the shoddiest restorations I've ever seen. I particularly remember a blue Studebaker coupe with enough swirl marks in the paint to make one dizzy. Sixty percent of "Bitchin' Rides" especially if your into hot rods. Ninety percent of "Overhauling" - especially the later shows without all the stupid "pranks." The "Junkyard Empire" shows I've seen seem to be a total waste of time. Seventy to eighty percent of "Wheeler Dealers." So, whatever floats your boat - use fast forward/skip to prevent wasting your valuable time.

I agree with you totally here Taylormade, and I thank you for bringing this topic up. To sorta get back to my original point, does anyone think that these shows could be a factor in bringing fresh faces into the hobby?

Cheers,

Grog

[Matt Harwood]

It's been my experience that the "fresh faces" these shows are bringing into the hobby have completely unrealistic expectations. Eh, just throw a whole new powertrain in there for $1200, have some lady do the interior for $400, slap a set of wheels on it and voila! Your $4000 beater is now a $100,000 Barrett-Jackson auction queen.

Or they look at a stock car and figure, "Yeah, that's nice, but where's the A/C and fuel injection?"

Or they wonder why the underside of a 60-year-old car isn't perfect and shiny, even on a car that costs $25,000.

Or they assume that anything older than 20 years needs a full mechanical transplant to be reliable and usable today. Eh, nothing a small block Chevy won't cure, right?

I think it's a mistake to assume that any new person doing any kind of work to an old car is an asset to the hobby. Just because a guy shows up calling himself a plumber doesn't necessarily mean you want him working on your house. There's real damage being done to some aspects of the hobby--do any of you realize that these shows are absolutely killing the values of your unmodified cars? That the market for an unmodified car is rapidly shrinking because TV shows make people expect things that aren't possible from a stock car? That TV shows are teaching everyone to be a bottom-feeder--if you can't make money on it, don't bother? Because that's the kind of BS I hear every single day and I'm quite certain there will be a time in the not-too-distant future when cars that people here cherish will be worth little more than scrap value simply because nobody will want them. Got a 1930s Oldsmobile? Any 1920s 4-door sedan? Any orphan brand that's not a convertible? Get ready, because cars like those haven't stopped depreciating yet unless you put a small block Chevy in them.

New faces? Maybe. But they aren't getting anything remotely resembling a proper view of all aspects of the hobby, particularly the side that we embrace here. Flippers/hacks/burnouts/piles of cash/$*%@! words? Sure, plenty of that. Restoration, authenticity, history, and appreciation for things as they were in the past? Zip, zero, nada, none.

And in the long run, that's going to really hurt AACA-type cars and the people who love them.

[Taylormade]

I have to agree with Matt. It's disheartening but all too true. I found the first car I ever owned after over 45 years. I regretted selling it the minute it left my possession. I always dreamed of finding it again and restoring it to its former glory. I was overjoyed when that happened - but it's a 1932 Dodge Sedan. I will have more money in it than it will ever be worth, but I don't care. I'm keeping a promise to myself that I made all those years ago. The old-timers who see it appreciate it for what it is, the young folks want to know what engine is in it, and when I tell them it's the original six, they walk away with a disappointed look. I recently had a discussion in the Dodge Forum with a guy who put a Ford six in his 35 Sedan. I mentioned that Chrysler sixes were a dime a dozen and he could easily put an original engine in the car and not have to cut up the frame and modify the engine mounts. His reply - "It's what I had." His car, his right to do what he wants, but it reflects today's attitudes all too well.

[Woodfiddler]

Thank you Matt. You are a man of keen insight into the business and a wordsmith too! I agree with you and believe the kids will have no appreciation for the original cars that we love and cherish. Too bad for them. :-(

Chuck in Kansas

[R.White]

If I could change the mind set of programme makers I would but unfortunately, as has already been stated, they are pandering to the lowest common denominator. It's the same story with the endless "do up an old house and become a property magnate" type programmes. These unrealistic expectations don't just extend to winning some bogus T.V. talent contest or thinking that covering themselves in ink will improve their image. As we have seen, when it comes to antique cars, they think the highly customised look is the "in" thing.

The outlook may well be grim but I do offer a glimmer of hope. One thing that afflicts the younger generation today is a short attention span. Our fast moving age with every high tech gadget imaginable ensures that before long the nostalgic quest for a simpler life; a life now gone, will thrust the unspoilt classic car into the limelight.

When the day comes that car restoration is taken as seriously as archaeology, I will be onto the programme makers with my own ideas about quality, class and style. I may have expectations as unrealistic as any one but I don't lack the gumption to try.

And at £20 hourly rate, I'm cheap!

Ray.<script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/5b38843e/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/5b38843e/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script>

[Restorer32]

R. White, you're into archaeology? My training is in archaeology but I transitioned into restoration after leaving graduate school due to lack of funding. In my alumni directory I list my occupation as "Industrial Archaeologist". Sounds better than "greasy fingernailed mechanic".

[capngrog]

Matt and Taylormade,

Have you ever owned and enjoyed a modified car or truck?

Just wonderin',

Grog

[Matt Harwood]

Matt and Taylormade,

Have you ever owned and enjoyed a modified car or truck?

Just wonderin',

Grog

Sure, I have and I do (I very strongly considered keeping this one for myself: http://www.harwoodmotors.com/vehicles/inventory_details.php?id=438). I don't have anything against modified vehicles, but we're discussing reality TV and how it relates to the hobby. And the hack work that they do on TV is creating a whole bunch of "new" hobbyists with completely unrealistic expectations about old cars and the market. It's creating expectations that EVERY car has to have a modern engine in it or else it's just not usable. It's creating the expectation that you can turn a beater into a pile of money in a week for under $5000. It's creating the expectation that the only reason you should play with old cars is profit--and I do this for a living!

Fast, well-done, or cheap, you can have two when you restore/build a car. The TV shows cover fast and cheap, I wonder what they're leaving out...?

Grog, you started this topic asking if the TV shows were doing a good thing by bringing new faces into the hobby. My point is that the new faces coming in don't have a very good picture of anything but a tiny segment of flipping pieces of crap into modified pieces of crap. I don't mind modified cars, but you should SEE some of the home-built junk that guys bring to my shop to try to sell--and their asking prices?!? Holy cow! I blame these TV shows for making them think that a 1975 Chevy C10 pickup with a crate motor and the front seat out of a late-model is worth $35,000. I blame these shows for the kid at the auto parts store who looks at my 1929 Cadillac and tells me it needs to be lowered and to have a big block Chevy installed because "you can't drive that old stuff." I blame these shows for the guys who come in to look at a car in my showroom and tell me my prices are too high because they won't be able to buy it and flip it to someone else for a profit.

So no, I don't mind modified cars. I just don't like some of the "new" ideas about the hobby that these shows are creating.

[oldcarfudd]

I don't think it's new, and I don't think it's caused by TV. I bought my first collector car in 1965. It was a presentable, drivable Model A victoria with dual side mounts. I remember several times when some kid (and I was only 29 myself!) would ask me what kind of engine it had. I'd say: "A 1931 Ford engine"; they'd say something like: "Oh, just a stocker" and look disappointed. And that was decades before reality TV.

[39BuickEight]

It's just so unrealistic, as Matt alluded to. You can't do interior and paint on a car for $2000 and sell it for $25,000. The numbers they put in are wrong and the numbers they sell for are simply ridiculous.

I don't mind a modified car at all, but the unrealistic nature of the show is a big turn off.

[capngrog]

Matt,

That 1948 Lincoln is a beauty for sure! What was the sales price of that? It appears that the modification was certainly done meticulously and the result was outstanding.

Getting back to the topic of this thread, I agree that many of the "new" ideas result in somewhat grotesque looking vehicles: i.e., the ridiculous "slammed" look, big wheels with rubber band tires etc.

"Kids will be kids" and they (including us when we were kids) almost always want more horsepower and more speed out of a vehicle. I think it must be in the genes or something, because it seems to be universal. When I drive my 1950 Crosley Station Wagon or 1937 Chevrolet Master Deluxe to the local pub, the younger set almost always open the discussion of the car with: "Can you put a small block Chevy in that?", whereas, the older guys (such as myself) marvel at how cool the old technology was and how any car could have survived for so long. Hotrodders and old car fans have at least one thing in common: we're "gear heads" or "grease monkeys" or whatever the term is these days. It seems to me that most of us in the AACA started out as hotrodders, but have evolved into appreciating old cars as part of history. That is where I have hope for our old car hobby. I hope that the present crop of horsepower/speed-crazed "kids" will evolve into folks who appreciate old cars and the history they represent. Maybe, just maybe a few young couch potatoes will be encouraged by one of the "reality" car shows to pick up a wrench and try working on his/her car, thus joining the "loyal order of gearheads".

Around here (North Central Florida), the hotrod of choice is the mud truck, and they're mostly owned and built by young guys who enjoy the so-called "reality" TV car shows; however, they think that these shows are a joke and constantly poke fun at the latest episode (it seems that at least one TV in the pub is always tuned to one of these "reality" TV car shows).

Maybe I'm just too optimistic,

Grog

[Restorer32]

I will be selling an apparently almost all original '30 Model A Tudor this Spring and I hesitate to advertise it simply because I think there is a 90% chance a rodder will be the one to buy it. Not that I have anything against modified cars but it would be a shame to chop up this car.

[R.White]

R. White, you're into archaeology? My training is in archaeology but I transitioned into restoration after leaving graduate school due to lack of funding. In my alumni directory I list my occupation as "Industrial Archaeologist". Sounds better than "greasy fingernailed mechanic".

Sorry, no I'm not an archaeologist; I lack the intellectual rigour required - but I love the subject. Funding this discipline is also a problem for us here.

Interestingly, rather than restoration, an "industrial archaeologist" in this country would be busy excavating everything from the Romans right through to the industrial revolution; where at Coalbrookdale in Shropshire, for example, they unearthed the furnaces used by Ironmaster Abraham Darby 1 in 1709 to smelt iron using coke instead of coal thereby kicking off the iron industry. It's a wonderful career if you can get into it.

I would have loved to have taken up car restoration years ago but it remains a hobby - which is probably just as well knowing how difficult it can be to make a decent living from it.

Ray.

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[Taylormade]

Almost, Grog. A few years ago I bought a 50 Dodge Wayfarer convertible and made the fatal mistake of buying it from pictures on EBay. It turned out to be a total rustbucket, so bad that i was going to have to replace sections of the frame that had turned into Swiss cheese.

The car was basically a parts car, but I found a nice 241 Hemi and decided to pull off the body, make a new frame and install the Hemi, a Torqueflite tranny and an updated rear end, restore the body and make a nice sleeper rod. I had all the parts and was ready to go when I found my old Dodge and sold off the Wayfarer and my 48 Plymouth (bone stock) to concentrate on it's restoration.

But the point Matt is making is valid. These shows are in no way "reality." I'm in the business and I know how this stuff works and these shows are, as Matt says, giving young viewers a totally unrealistic view of the hobby/business as it exists in the real world. My complaint in my earlier thread was that Richard Rawlings supposedly got a new Dodge prototype from Chrysler and then "stole" the drivetrain from it to install in another project. They made a big deal that maybe Chrysler would be upset (pissed off was the term Richard used, I believe) that they had taken the motor and tranny (which they later couldn't use) out of the prototype. Come on! Any idiot knows that Dodge sponsors Richard and he knew perfectly well the drivetrain was his from the start. The entire "bit" was a set up from the get go.

I've been on shoots where we have had to pay people to do things in front of the camera to get what the producer wants. This footage is later foisted off on the public as "real." Does anyone really think that these scenes where the guys go out with a trailer and discover the latest "barn find" and dicker with the fat old owner and finally get the car for a ridiculous price (either way too high or way too low) are legit? Think about it. They show up at the guy's place after spotting the gem back behind the barn where it's been sitting, apparently unnoticed by car guys for years, pull into the driveway and knock on the guy's door. He shows up and they talk about the car. Now, if you opened the door and found a two strangers standing there with a cameraman with a large video camera on his shoulder, two sound men with microphones and mixers, a producer and two production assistants behind them, what would your reaction be? Would you stand there and discuss your car, or ask what the hell is going on here?

What actually happened was, the show's production staff searches for cars that fit the show's format. Once they get a good lead, they contact the owner and see if he's willing to sell the car and appear on the show. A date and time is set up for the shoot. Production assistants and crew show up early and get things ready, making sure the car in question has the proper look for the scene. They may move the car to a different location on the property to capture the light or get a better background. The sound men rig the seller with a wireless lavalier microphone for good sound. A teamster driver shows up with the star's truck and trailer. The star show up in his limo/RV and relaxes while the crew finishes the setup. The star climbs out of his air-conditioned vehicle while his driver hands him a soda/beer/cappuccino and he and the director discuss the scene with the seller - does the seller have a good story about the car? The production assistant says it belonged to your great uncle. Play that up and how you don't really want to sell it. And at the end, the star will pull out this big wad of money and give it to you. Now it turns out that the seller originally wanted a little more money for his car than the producer thought was correct for the show - after all, we have to show the buying price, the restoration costs and the final sale price at the end of the show to display the amazing profit the star just made. The producer already has a buyer for the finished car and he wants a set price (on camera) for the old heap in the barn. So, he tells the seller, "Don't worry, on camera you sell the star the car for seven grand and we'll give you three more after the shoot. That being additional to the fee paid to the seller for appearing on the show. Once the routine is set and a final price agreed on, everything is ready to go. They shoot the scene a few times until the nervous seller gets it right, then they pack up and head back to the studio to edit all this "reality."

The seller is a set up, the buyers are a set up and the prices are a set up. The only reality is when Rawlings or some other "builder" takes a bath at an auction where the real price has to be displayed. And even that is not a real loss as his weekly salary as the star of the show is astronomical.

Matt is right, if young folks think this is how you restore/rod a car as far as cost and prices are concerned, they will have a totally unrealistic view of the hobby/business and get into it for all the wrong reasons..

[capngrog]

Taylormade,

I've been involved in the production process you describe, and you describe it well. With that said, I hope that I'm not giving anyone participating in this thread the idea that I, in any way, think that the so-called "reality" TV car shows reflect real life! As I said in my opening post, I enjoy most of the TV car shows, but in no way confuse them with reality. I don't even know someone who considers the "reality" car shows to reflect any degree of real-life experience. If too many kids think these shows reflect the reality of the business ... oh, well, "ya just can't fix stupid".

Do the popular TV drama shows (NCIS, CSI, Big Bang Theory etc.) reflect reality? Not much, but I still enjoy them and watch them frequently (well, maybe not the Big Bang Theory so much). It seems that even the TV news programs are only vaguely based on reality these days.

When I started this thread, I intended a discussion of whether or not the "reality" TV car shows could cause someone, otherwise not inclined, to pick up a wrench and join us in the hobby. I did not think the thread would become another discussion on how bad the "reality" TV car shows are. It seems that the prevailing wisdom is that anyone encouraged by a "reality" TV car show to pick up a wrench will be so morally damaged by such shows, that they will become unredeemable wrench-wielding sociopaths. That may well be the case, because several of those having such an opinion clearly have more experience in the hobby than I do (I'm relatively new to the hobby).

One person's reality ... ,

Grog

[Pomeroy41144]

I did not think the thread would become another discussion on how bad the "reality" TV car shows are.

Grog

The reality is is that one cannot get around the stubborn fact that reality TV car shows are bad.

Not only are they bad "entertainment", they are, as has been pointed out, bad for the hobby of preserving Antique Automobiles.

[cahartley]

Getting back to the topic of this thread, I agree that many of the "new" ideas result in somewhat grotesque looking vehicles: i.e., the ridiculous "slammed" look, big wheels with rubber band tires etc.

"Kids will be kids" and they (including us when we were kids) almost always want more horsepower and more speed out of a vehicle. I think it must be in the genes or something, because it seems to be universal.

Apparently I'm in the 2% ( ) who like cars to be how they were built........always did.

I don't mind a little sensible bling but would never consider tossing a perfectly good engine to drop in some mega horsepower beast so I can smoke tires for a block and a half.......

If I wanted something else I'd have bought something else.......

[capngrog]

Apparently I'm in the 2% ( ) who like cars to be how they were built........always did.

I don't mind a little sensible bling but would never consider tossing a perfectly good engine to drop in some mega horsepower beast so I can smoke tires for a block and a half.......

If I wanted something else I'd have bought something else.......

Well, you're certainly not in 2% on this forum, because I believe that restoring/maintaining old cars as original is what AACA is all about. My guess is that you're in the 98% in this forum ... as it should be.

Cheers,

Grog

[cahartley]

^ Well......maybe in THIS forum.......

I bought my '59 Chevy and '65 Mustang BECAUSE they are 6 bangers but it seems on the Mustang side there sure are a lot of haters toward 6's....... :mad:

[R.White]

^ Well......maybe in THIS forum.......

I bought my '59 Chevy and '65 Mustang BECAUSE they are 6 bangers but it seems on the Mustang side there sure are a lot of haters toward 6's....... :mad:

This is probably where I need educating. As a lad, the Mustang was my favourite car of all time but I would have thought (at that time) the better choice would have been the 4.7 litre V8 over the 2.8 litre straight 6 simply because the Mustang screamed "speed".

So if my feelings were right then, why are they wrong now? Wouldn't anyone have chosen the faster sports car over the slower one on offer from the factory if they could have justified the extra expense? and if they choose a V8 over a less powerful 6 today, why is that somehow different?

It's not as if swapping out a 170 cu in 6 for a 289 cu in V8 is customising an original Mustang into something that was not originally on offer and where one car is otherwise very much like another due to mass production surely this should be acceptable today?

I must be missing something...?

Ray.

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[cahartley]

^ Not a 170.......it's a 200.......and goes plenty fast for me....... :cool:

Which goes back to my point.......if I wanted a V8 I'd have bought one with a V8.

Edited April 30, 2015 by cahartley (see edit history)

[R.White]

^ Not a 170.......it's a 200.......and goes plenty fast for me....... :cool:

Which goes back to my point.......if I wanted a V8 I'd have bought one with a V8.

The main thing is that you are happy with what you have.

... I drive like a snail with a limp anyway, so I expect a 6 would probably be enough to scare the c**p out of me!

Ray.

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[capngrog]

I don't hate I-6s, but I love V-8s. In my opinion, I-6 Mustangs are O.K., but if it aint a V-8, it aint real a Mustang. This is for the same reason that neither an I-6 nor a V-6 should be in a Corvette. This is just my opinion, and is admittedly biased towards V-8s.

I-4s (I own a couple of those), I-6s and V-8s are all cool ... especially if they are installed in older vehicles.

I don't hate I-6s,

Grog

[Trulyvintage]

Grog,

Having met Richard & Aaron ...

Having watched the show over the years ...

It does good for the car industry that everyone indirectly or directly benefits from

I like the guys & the show ...

Jim

[padgett]

My cable box is set to VeloCity when it turns on. That said I also use the DVR for those that interest me and fast forward a lot (a half hour show usually has about 10 minutes of content and a lot of repetition). Also if you look at the signs out front few make their money from restoration/custom cars.

Of course if SyFi is showing the latest "Lake Placid" I'd take that particularly since any of these car shows will show up again an hour later. Both suffer from the same problem: the same commercial over and over. I can tell what they are even at x4.

Must admit I shudder at two things: the amount of rust they happily ignore (particularly the shows from the UK and the northern NAFTA member) and their near total lack of knowlege of anything electrical (that is where they bring in an "expert"). A close third is "the real deal" but is more a source of amusement. Also a definate shudder when I see a long beard in close proximity to fan belts (same reason I do not wear rings).

So the "reality" is: there is no money in flipping cars unless you're on a first name basis with Dana or a regular at Bonhams (though Richard R. is listed as producing many of the shows). OPM helps.

Where the money is (and it takes a populated area) is in knowing how to run a 3D printer or having a collection of black boxes to work magic. Understanding computers is a plus (why my modern cars all have permanent dongles). For the truely knowlegable, advising/appraising is the way to go. (Ever notice that the one guy on "Classic Car Rescue" who is clean and well dressed and is always driving something interesting is the appraiser ?).

So the one thing about "reality"shows is that they are not "real" but can be amusing if not downright funny (companions rarely understand why I start laughing when watchng such shows).

ps my personal preferance is for a DOHC 6 between three and four liters, I think the sound is music, but my pet is a 400+ HP V8. For some things there is nothing like an American Muscle.

Edited May 3, 2015 by padgett (see edit history)

[Guest]

If I could change the mind set of programme makers I would but unfortunately, as has already been stated, they are pandering to the lowest common denominator. It's the same story with the endless "do up an old house and become a property magnate" type programmes. These unrealistic expectations don't just extend to winning some bogus T.V. talent contest or thinking that covering themselves in ink will improve their image. As we have seen, when it comes to antique cars, they think the highly customised look is the "in" thing.

The outlook may well be grim but I do offer a glimmer of hope. One thing that afflicts the younger generation today is a short attention span. Our fast moving age with every high tech gadget imaginable ensures that before long the nostalgic quest for a simpler life; a life now gone, will thrust the unspoilt classic car into the limelight.

When the day comes that car restoration is taken as seriously as archaeology, I will be onto the programme makers with my own ideas about quality, class and style. I may have expectations as unrealistic as any one but I don't lack the gumption to try.

And at £20 hourly rate, I'm cheap!

Ray.<script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/5b38843e/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/5b38843e/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script>

Ray, what comes to mind is the British comedy " As time Goes by " When Lionel sell the rights to his book " My Life in Kenya" Hollywood producers and they completely re-write his script for American audiences and it's a flop.

So, you will never get producers to make anything that looks like the whole aspect of Preservation, Restoration and appreciation of the hobby for what it really is.