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Mark Gregory

Searching for a Patent Drawing for a Winterfront Thermostat

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Has anybody ever tried to go the US patent office online and search out a 1930's patent drawing ? I want to know how a Pines Winter Front thermostat is assembled . I have many pieces but unsure how they go together .

Edited by Mark Gregory (see edit history)

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I use it frequently, but you will need the patent number. If all you have is the patentee, use google patents. You can link directly from that to the patent office site. Unfortunately, the ocr scans that google patents uses are not good so they often scramble spelling and make it impossible to find anything... so the actual number is still best.

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I looked at the drawings very good details . Figure 9 shows exactly what I am looking for . I read the article and all it says about the thermostat is the discs are filled with Ether . I want to know how many discs go inside the brass container . 9 like shown in the pictures Keiser 31 posted for me or am I missing 2 discs with holes in them that go at each end ? I will look for a patent number on the brass thermostat container and also the main control casting Figure 10 . Thanks

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Here are the numbers and words on the casting that controls the arm of the shutters . Pines Automatic Winterfront , Patent Numbers 1,114,246 1,379,644 1,352,184 1,411,487 1,533,460

I looked up all the numbers none of them shows the detail that the link you gave me 30 Dodge . Thanks JV for your input also I have seen those poor scans on some pictures I thought it was my computer .

If anyone knows how to get more detail from Figure 9 it would help . They do sell a bellows type thermostat but it has a bolt going through the centre . Mine does not as you can see from the pictures .

I also read the discs can be filled with alcohol , ether and acetone to make them expand .

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Mark, very cool item btw..

You may want to post on the Packard and Duesenberg boards and forums, I bet they'll be able to help you.

I would be very curious to know more about the measurements you have. Can you post a photo of the bottom of cap in photo #1? Also can you post interior dimensions and photo of bottom of #2 (brass cap). Also, what are the outer dimensions on the discs ?

The schematic on the patents web site only show two discs that fit into the brass cone that will seat up against the backing plate (#85 in fig 10). Maybe the discs that you show are different kits used at different times (two at a time) that maybe a previous owner just held on to for extras just incase. These are only guesses on my part but the Packard and Duesenberg crowds may be able to direct you to someone who knows.

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This patent drawing in NOT the one you are looking for, but if you follow the link (below) and once there, click on the purple "Pines Winterfront Company" link (as you see in the second photo below) it will take you to all of the Company's patents and perhaps you can find what you need there.

https://www.google.com/patents/US1938929?dq=%22Pines+Winterfront+Company%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dAtGVcWNGYfHsAXfwYGACA&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBg

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I've used the Google Patents feature to download the full PDF files of patents. You can search by patent number, assignee (e.g. Pines Winter-front), inventor name and other ways. The Google PDF files have high quality images.

Looking at a few of the Pines Winter-Front patents and the photos, it looks like those pancake disks are partly filled with diethyl ether and the hole soldered shut. Diethyl ether is the same stuff used in the bulbs of temperature gauges. Above about 100 degrees F, some of the fluid turns to gas and causes a high internal pressure in the disk causing the center to bulge. I'm guessing that the perforated disks are there to help things nest together and deliver the total push and travel to the actuator rod. From the vapor pressure data for diethyl ether, it looks like the forces can be sufficiently large. The vapor pressure is balanced by the 14.7 psi of atmospheric pressure which is why the disks don't begin to do anything much until the temperature is well over 120 F. At 176 F, the net pressure is about 40 psi (=55.2-14.7). If you shake the pancake disks, can you hear or feel liquid moving around inside? If not, you may have to add some ether and resolder the hole in the disks. No open flames! Cool the bottom of the disk in ice water and use a large electrical soldering iron (~300W) to put a dab of solder on the hole.

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I am finally finishing this project off . Would anyone know if there are 2 discs with the holes missing at the ends of the gas filled discs at the ends . To protect them from mechanical damage ? 

As my thermostat was taken apart when I bought it .

Should I have 7 discs with holes and 6 discs with gas ?

Right now I have 5 discs with holes .

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Also Jim Otto in Knoxville, TN.   865-966-9494.      -   Carl 

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