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Breeze Carb Woes


1910Hupp
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Well yet again I had a go at installing my reconditioned breeze carburettor and yet again it would not run. It was fully rebuilt by Stan Howe and I know it has been bench run and flow tested. It will start if I fill the priming cups but won't run for more than a few beats before stopping . Opening up the throttle makes no difference during those few beats. I wonder about the reproduction inlet manifold but it appears to have no blockages in it . I'll check it out tomorrow . Failing that I wonder about a leak at the manifold block junction. It ran fine with the old (butchered) manifold and Holly NH carb-Karl

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G,day Huppers. Karl make sure that the air valve is not sucking open when you are cranking. If you spray a pool of thin oil, DWF will do and let it lie above the air valve, it should stay there when cranking but should open when the engine revs reach just above idle. It might be a starting point to be sure the plug is in the bottom of the manifold for cold weather running .This will make sure that all the air at cranking speed is coming the long way round off the exhaust manifold and although there will be no heat there may be a slight choking affect. The main jet needle open one and one half turns should give you a starting point and you can trim your settings when you have it running and double check that the locating rings in the inlet manifold are allowing a pressure seal on the gasket , but the most likely demon is the air valve demon as unless the valve is airtight when cranking you will run hotter than the Hup. Max Burke Nulkaba 2325 Australia

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Thanks a million Max -The frustration level was getting pretty high. Once I ruled out a blockage in the manifold I fiqured it was too much air getting in somewhere but didn't think of the air valve. Getting a seal on the inlet manifold block interface may also be a contribution to the problem . What I tried to do was turn down some 1 3/8 copper pipe so the OD fitted the ID of the manifold and block. The I parted off the pipe into to rings 50 thou longer than the combined recess in block and manifold . After annealing the rings I put them in and installed the manifolds . My plan was that the rings would squish up and expand and create a seal . However the recesses in the manifold are not of uniform depth and vary by about 15 thou round the circumference so perhaps I didn't get as much crush /seal as I wanted . Nice to know that after a 100 years the ANZACs are still looking out for each other ! Karl

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G,day Karl Not clear if you are using gasket rings on the inlet manifold to block joint or are relying on your new copper locating rings. We have Klinger 1000 rings in our Hups but I,v been told that the rings for Ford T are the answer and readily available . Max Burke Nulkaba 2325 Australia

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Max Tried the Model T gasket rings and they are a tad smaller than the ports. My plan was to use my copper rings and over the top of them use a copper crush gasket with an ID close to the ring OD. I think I will probably use my rings plus a gasket. The exhaust gasket for a Mini can be cut up to provide a nice size gasket for the ports- Karl

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It lives !!! Thanks to all. In the end I think it was a combination of the needle valve not being opened enough and the air valve being open to much . Seems to idle well but when I open up the throttle I do seem to get a lot fuel vapor coming out the bottom the carb- I guess it will be a matter of fiddling with the needle valve and the air valve control settings to eliminate this - Ken ? Edgar? David? Karl

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The excessive fuel out the bottom of the carburettor at full throttle problem I think has been solved. When I got the rebuilt carb back for Stan Howe he had set it up with the throttle arm on the wrong side. It was a simple matter to swap it over to the other side. When I moved it however I didn't pay enough attention to the position of the throttle butterfly relative to the throttle arm . So with the throttle closed the butterfly was acually a little open as I opened the throttle the butterfly valve actually closed and the opened up but of course never opened fully at full throttle . This partial obstruction I think was the cause of the problem but time will tell!

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Yes Thanks David I do - you kindly sent me the manual some time ago and I picked up the original booklet subsequently on ebay. However no mention of fuel vapour out of the bottom of the carburettor at full throttle in either -Karl

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After reading this thread, it would seem to me that possibly a sticking intake valve could cause this issue. However, as it has been a long time since I worked on a Breeze, I read the entire 56 page manual. I found this reference on page 41:

Gas Blowing Back Through Carbureter. Automatic

inlet valves have a vcry short lift, and

when the engine has more than one cylinder, the

springs in these valves must be of an even tension.

If the springs are weak or have too rnuch lift, part

of the gas will be blown backwards through the

valves and the carburetcr in the compression stroke.

Jon.

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After reading this thread, it would seem to me that possibly a sticking intake valve could cause this issue. However, as it has been a long time since I worked on a Breeze, I read the entire 56 page manual. I found this reference on page 41:

Gas Blowing Back Through Carbureter. Automatic

inlet valves have a vcry short lift, and

when the engine has more than one cylinder, the

springs in these valves must be of an even tension.

If the springs are weak or have too rnuch lift, part

of the gas will be blown backwards through the

valves and the carburetcr in the compression stroke.

Jon.

Thanks Jon The Hup doesn't have atmospheric inlets and appears to have good compression on all pots. It only seems to happen at full throttle .

Having said that I haven' touched it for the last few days as I'm laid up with a slipped disc . So cranking it over is out for a while :(

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  • 4 weeks later...

It's running fine -Leaning the mixture a bit fixed the excessive fuel vapour problem. Idles really well but is  slightly more sluggish at speed than with the Holley  but I suspect that will come dowm to air valve adjustment  and  needle settings which I will sort out over the next few weeks -Karl 

Edited by Hupdoc (see edit history)
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  • 1 year later...

I have my Hupp starting pretty dependably with the Breeze (which was rebuilt at the same time as Karl's). I still must master the air valve setting. I observe, however, that the carb drips about a tablespoon or two of gasoline from the bottom manifold opening when the engine is shut off. The drips slow and then stop, but I wonder what causes this.

 

Also, I wonder what the low idle speed of the Hupp is. I'm thinking mine might be set a bit high.

 

Finally, is there any instance where the bottom plug should be used in the intake manifold? I've never installed one.

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by MochetVelo (see edit history)
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I've never used the bottom plug .

 

The air valve I've left alone after opening it up  as far as I could   and still being able to start the car. 

 

My carb  spits a bit of fuel vapour out the bottom of the carb  when the mixture is a bit rich when I start up. Settles when I lean it down No drip after shut off  from the carb but everything else drips oil  !

 

Karl  

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